Superior french Suspension???
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 49
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! mmm...CORNERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Epping, Sydney
    Posts
    574

    Default Superior french Suspension???

    I just recently had new tyres put on and had the alignment checked while I was there and apperently it was perfect Now this is 2 years after the last alignment which was after the car was lowered...even then needed very little adjustment. The car always tracks straight and I've never experienced any wheel shake or anything. Makes me love my pugs supension.
    The funny thing is, My girlfriends Shitsu Mirage, in the two years she's owned it, has had 3 alignments done!!!! She just put new tyres on aswell (yoko C-drives....very good) and it needed another alignment, one wheel was apperently 4 degrees off spec!!!!! I suspected this on recent freeway trip and I had to keep the wheel slghtly turned!
    Now does that highlight the difference between good suspension design and bad??? Anyone else found similar things?

    BTW Yoko C-drives...very quiet, grippy and have solved the nigggly ride of the mirage....they are 185/60 R14, might be a good tyre for some touring orented frogs

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location
    Posts
    1,571

    Default

    French cars handle, ride and steer like a car should. Even the old stuff is good. This seems to be an afterthought with other manufacturers for some reason.

  3. #3
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    4,917

    Icon12

    French suspension is by far the best in my opinion. I have driven many cars that are total crap. A suzuki i recently went in was like riding on a milk crate. God knows how people do it but I can say that Australians dont know good cars when they see them....like our french cars.

  4. #4
    XTC
    XTC is offline
    VIC: a fine driving state XTC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location Location
    Posts
    8,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    God knows how people do it but I can say that Australians dont know good cars when they see them....
    "They" won't see them until Australian motoring jounalists start giving them a fair go !!

    - xTc -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,976

    Default

    My mate is a Aussie and he has several French cars. As he says:'They handle, are nice to drive and are economical.
    Reminds me of a non technical mate looking for a small car for his wife. The test drove several jap cars (small ones) and he thought they hoped along like a billi cart - he bought her a 306. He drives only Smirkcedes.

  6. #6
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930

    Default

    Nothing like zipping down a heavily corrugated/pot hole filled dirt road in a French car.

    Everyone will be pleased to know that despite being built on the 307's platform, the new Citroen C4 is getting huge praise for its ride/handling setup in the UK. In fact the C4 has won (and come a close 2nd) in some comparisons over there as it is one of the few cars in its class that feels 'special'.

    I'm glad it has been a sucess as the small family hatch segment has been dominated by the Focus and Golf recently. The 307 hasn't even been mentioned by the British motoring press in ages, and the Megane has been coming a consistant last.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Peter J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Dubbo NSW
    Posts
    198

    Default

    I think the best test is that long trip when you get out at the other end still feeling half alive. I have a 504 and a 307 and would say that the suspension in the 504 is far superior as far as ride comfort goes. Not bad for a car that is now twenty six years old. Most friends that come for a trip in the 504 are always impressed with that lounge chair type driving. I must admit I have not driven any German or Italian cars but have not driven anything as good as the Pug. I understand the Renault's and Aussie built 504's had the same seats in them for a while, but have never driven a Renault or a Citroen.

    Peter J.
    PJ

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,976

    Default

    My brother in law had an aussie built R16 and he insitst that it has the best seats ever (he has a V6 Audi now).
    But i was a passenger from Melbourne to Falls Creek and these seats gave me a back ache. I think they are crap!
    On the other hand i had Recaros in my Datsun 2000 sport and drove for 12 hours (minus pee breaks) straigt across the Nullabor without a tinge of backacke.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    920

    Default Ditto

    Suspension design sets all the Frogs apart.

    My brother 97 Foulcan managed 20,000 easy driven kms on first set of tyres.

    Had to get a special camber kit put in it to align the wheels properly. (Yes he is in Pugs and Renaults now)

    In all my French cars they drove and tracked tru. In fact I have only ever had one alignment done and that was when new tyres fitted, dont really think it needed it.

    Where I really find the advantage is in the subtle way the suspension takes out the small irregularities on the road that are transmitted thru the seat/ steering in Japanese cars.

    Before I bought a Peugeot or Renault or Citroen I was on holiday in Scotland driving along typical bumpy (From Isle of Skye to Fort William) Highland road in our hire Rover/Honda 416. I was overtaken by a Peugeot filled with four big caber tossing scotsmen. Well I tried to keep up but the Rover was bucking uncomfortably and I noticed the Peugeot was riding flat and the said gents were in a relaxed conversation. I was white knuckled wide eyed in terror trying to keep up, in the end I had to slow down and realise There is a difference!

    I couldnt as the add sais buy the company so did the next best thing and bought a R21 and a Mi16. Have owned v6 Laguna, Citroen Xsara and now on 406 and 206Gti.

    Thankyou unknown Scotsmen.

    Graelin

  10. #10
    Member QIK-516's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    41

    Default

    I have driven many cars from the low end of the scale up to high end stuff like GT3 porsches!! I still think my little pug handles and is a all round great package even against some high end stuff

    The only cars i have driven that made me more impressed are my old mans e46 M3 and mate in germanys highly tuned GT2 Porsche and they are 150K and 500K, says a lot for our little french weapons
    S16 ownership is like a fine french wine, perfection personified

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! mmm...CORNERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Epping, Sydney
    Posts
    574

    Default

    YEah, its definately in the design. even though my car has been marginally lowered it still rides well and irons out the small bumps. it can crash on bigger bumps, but never to the point of discomfort. An old corrola (AE82 seca....ugh) managed to be sloppy, soft, confused AND crashy over bumps! understeer was amazing in that car. In its defence though, it survived my P-plate years with many attempts to destroy the engine/gearbox with silly amounts revs on each gear change.! At least im over that now

  12. #12
    Member Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Inverell NSW
    Posts
    52

    Default

    I must say the 505 GTD that I had was one of the best riding cars I have ever had the chance to drive It loved rough roads and after a long trip you would get out feeling good, except for the horrible short leg, log arm driving position that I could never get used to.

    Its a shame the new 407 has been getting very bad reviews about its suspension, I assume they are correct as the ones I have read compared the old to new pugs and commented that used to be a good selling point but sadly not in the new 407. No control in the rear especially, very floaty.

    1987 Peugeot 505 GTD 2.5 Turbo

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mmm...CORNERS
    I just recently had new tyres put on and had the alignment checked while I was there and apperently it was perfect Now this is 2 years after the last alignment which was after the car was lowered...even then needed very little adjustment. The car always tracks straight and I've never experienced any wheel shake or anything. Makes me love my pugs supension.
    The funny thing is, My girlfriends Shitsu Mirage, in the two years she's owned it, has had 3 alignments done!!!!
    Why would you need to do the alignment ever Why would it change.

    The BX I purchased at 180,000km, it now has over 280,000kms on it and has never had an alignment. The old CX2400 I drove for 12years that I 'clocked' a couple of times only once had an alignment in all those years ... and that was because I put new track rods on it.

    The CX2200 wagon my father had he set with an extendable tent pole when he first got the car (and put new ball joints etc in the front). He then proceded to drive it for about 6years without a single alignment.

    I've never even heard of the front end needing alignment on a DS.

    I must say the 505 GTD that I had was one of the best riding cars I have ever had the chance to drive It loved rough roads and after a long trip you would get out feeling good, except for the horrible short leg, log arm driving position that I could never get used to.
    I must say the 505 GTD that I had was one of the best riding cars I have ever had the chance to drive It loved rough roads and after a long trip you would get out feeling good, except for the horrible short leg, log arm driving position that I could never get used to.
    Nah, poogoes are bloody rough as guts to ride in. You wanna try a *real* car
    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Industrie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Brisbane Australia
    Posts
    635

    Default

    The need for a wheel alignment often depends on the way a car is driven. Usually the wheels are put out of alignment if you hit something on the side of a wheel... for example a gutter as you're going around a corner. That will knock the wheel alignment out, regardless of the type of car. Of course, sometimes the suspension can be a bit tougher and be able to withstand a little more abuse...

    And for those who like the Peugeot ride, try living with the 206 180. The suspension is pretty harsh. I am often to be seen zig zagging down my street, trying to avoid even the little bumps in the road because it's just so dam uncomfortable to hit them. But (and it's a big one - you should see my jeans), I'm not really complaining because the handling is so superb. There are some compromises you've got to make if you want to drive a car which is Go-kart direct.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott
    Its a shame the new 407 has been getting very bad reviews about its suspension, I assume they are correct as the ones I have read compared the old to new pugs and commented that used to be a good selling point but sadly not in the new 407. No control in the rear especially, very floaty.

    The only review that I've read that was critical of the 407s suspension was a 407 SV V6 with electronically adjustable suspension (see the current issue of Wheels). I've read over 15 reviews/ road tests and almost all have praised the ride/handling/refinement of their 407 test cars (without the electrics).

    As much as I enjoy driving my 04 Mazda6 wagon (its a close call between my wife's 407's and the Mazda6 steering and handling) the ride/and especially the seat comfort and refinement of the 407 is IMHO a class above.

    This is my first Peugeot/ french car and it's more than lived up to their well deserved reputation as the leaders in suspension tuning.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Nah, poogoes are bloody rough as guts to ride in. You wanna try a *real* car
    seeya,
    Shane L.
    You turkey...

    Must admit, I'm amazed at the sort of 'magic carpet float' feeling over small bumps that the Mi gives, while being very low and having very limited body roll and brilliant handling. And that's at 150,000km on original suspension. Must've been pretty good 13 years ago, new.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,256

    Default

    even though the 604 still has more body roll than i like (but that's bieng looked at) i prefer to drive that over a long distance than the GTi-6

    i can hop out of the 604 after a long drive and feel like i just started the journey and even though the 306 is great to drive i feel buggered after a long trip in it

    there is only so much body jarring a person can take

    for fun though and excellent handling and lack of bodyroll i'll take the GTi-6 out everytime
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  18. #18
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    You turkey...

    Must admit, I'm amazed at the sort of 'magic carpet float' feeling over small bumps that the Mi gives, while being very low and having very limited body roll and brilliant handling. And that's at 150,000km on original suspension. Must've been pretty good 13 years ago, new.

    Stuey

    c'mon Stuey

    we all know Shane was only born with one eye
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    4,518

    Default

    ...as mentioned earlier....I think the reason french cars ride and handle so well is because of the extent the designers/engineers have gone to....ie suspension geometry and how it works, that doesnt just stop where it has contact with the chassis...Its chassis design as a whole (no matter what wheelbase) thats finetuned...and then its still doesn t stop there.....just look at the seats in a ds or a 504.....hell even an EA falcon would feel like it rides "better" with DS or 604 seats.....I think this is where the french excelled...the "totallity" of the suspension design (some after all make their own struts)....So I think this is where many lack....hell, a 735 really does have a decent ride..its just that the seats let it down.....same for a big luxo 500sl....tough as a truck component wise and everything is so clinically german and clean....but again lack the ds or peugeot seats (not even up to jag standard let alone citroen-think xm). Undeniably they (the germans) handle "high speed" maneuvres exceptionally well and if this is taken in the context of their assumed brief re: seats, something harder (not lounge-like) is probably more appropriate.....




    cheers


    dino

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Perth/West Australia
    Posts
    1,358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Graelin
    Suspension design sets all the Frogs apart.

    My brother 97 Foulcan managed 20,000 easy driven kms on first set of tyres.

    Had to get a special camber kit put in it to align the wheels properly. (Yes he is in Pugs and Renaults now)

    Graelin
    I am going to go along with "Double Chevron" here. Once an alignment is correct, it should never need re-setting, unless you give a kerb a whack or something like that.

    Of course it needs to be set correctly in the factory in the first place, and I think this is where many cars get a bad name. I bought an ex-govt 1996 EF Fowl Can at auction with 40000 kms on the odo, it had 3 different types of tyre on it so obviously had already had replacements (it had been in a country location). Anyway, I put on a set of Michelins (they are French aren't they?) and they would be the worst set of tyres for noise and ride I have driven on (OK - they were made in THAILAND but I didn't know that when I bought them!). I noticed on an interstate trip a slight pull to the left, but those Michelins were so bad, I wouldnt do the alignment, because I wanted them to wear out quicker! I replaced them about 40,000 kms later, then did the alignment myself, setting it as close to the book as possible with about $10 of camber/caster shims and using the grey matter in the head. Next set of tyres was Goodyear Eagle GA Plus (basically original equipment for Falcons) and got 70,000 kms front and 80,000 kms rear without any rotations. I have replaced those tyres, had the alignment checked - it has not changed. The car rides well and long distance comfort is very good (although no doubt a Citroen is better!).

    The Falcon is certainly a lot more comfortable than our Scenic over a long distance (or even a short distance for that matter) - what? - sacrilege!! The Scenic suspension is OK but it really kneels down in corners, I'd hate to see what they look like from outside when cornering hard! But, like everything else, its "horses for courses" and I would no more think about driving the Scenic across the Nullarbor than buy a Falcon for my wife to commute 10 kms to work in the city each day.

    Fordman.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    4,518

    Default

    ...a 4 litre displacement would be a "BIT" of an overkill for a 10km trip though....although some think even 4x4 is required......so your thinking isn t that bad after all....


    cheers


    dino

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    487

    Default

    While we're an the subject...

    Where in Sydney is a recommended place to get a wheel alignment? And possibly new shocks and springs?

    The latter not necessary, but more for my own information.


    pips
    Ever wonder why Mad Scientist talk to themselves? They know others just wouldn't understand.

    The software said "Windows 98 or better". So I installed Linux.

    1990 405 Mi16

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! mmm...CORNERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Epping, Sydney
    Posts
    574

    Default

    I suppose kerbs could be the reason my GF's alignment is always out.....not tht i'm implying anything, shes a decent driver, but a quick check of my wheels reveals no scrub marks or kerb damage on the rims...the mirage however.....

  24. #24
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    c'mon Stuey

    we all know Shane was only born with one eye
    If there is one thing that is quite obvious it is none of you poogoe guys have ever driven a CX or DS. Bodyroll is a great asset, the way you can frighten the absolute sh!t out of any passenger will have you laughing so hard you'll risk crashing the car.

    Now I have my old rolly polly '63 ID19, it's so soft when I get in the drivers door the whole car drops about 1". As I put my seatbelt on it corrects itself with a couple of sighs from the suspension. I can go over the speedhumps (big sharp [email protected]) down at my parents place at whatever speed I can wind the old girl upto down the hill. Needless to say the council would be quite upset at how much there speed humps affect my speed .... what speed humps ??, all I hear is the annoying "THUD" while I'm sedately amble over them at about 75mph. Now the old car has what appears to be about 45degrees of bodyroll, when I'm driving it with, er, 'enthusiasm' (which is pretty much always unless SWMBO is in the car) you gotta be really careful not to rest your arm on the window sill, you see gravel rash can be painful. Those little 165 Michelin hang on like you wouldn't believe, even if they do howl like banshees. Around a series of corners it feels almost like the wheels and suspension are glued to the road, and this huge big body is just swaying along for the ride, going for 45degrees bodyroll in one direction to 45degrees bodyroll in the other direction. The whole time this adrenalin crazed driver has the foot nailed to the floor balancing the bloody great car on the throttle Sure they were/are quite slow, however to put things into perspecitive. When new the injected 2.1litre 4cylinder DS did 0-100km/h in about 10.5 seconds and topped out at about 190km/h. Now the local V8's struggled to much the acceleration and most certainly did NOT have anything like it's top speed (this is your normal V8 local cars, not the GTHO's and other road registered race cars of there day).

    Then we move onto the early CX's, less bodyroll, the body feels like it's almost attached to the wheels, lots of understeer that I counter by keeping the 2nd choke on the carby wide open out of corners. She only leans to about 30degrees bodyroll around corners, running the back tires at about 20psi and the front at 36psi (prefably with narrower tires on the back) allows a bit of oversteer at the limit with some trailing throttle. Still soft to ride in, but certainly no DS, a much more modern feel and quicker drive than the DS.

    Then we have the GS, this car is an understeerer, however on greasy roads it's the only car I've been able to push into 4wheel drifts under trailing throttle, without doubt it is the best riding small car EVER made. IMO it rides better than the CX and almost as well as the DS.

    Now we have the BX, the suspension has lost a huge amount of bodyroll. The wheels most certainly feel attached to the body. It's a nimble little lightweight but in a lot of ways a huge dissapointment to someone that's owned DS's, CX's, GS's .... It rides quite well for what it is, but doesn't have the infinatly safe/secure regardless of road condition feel of the older Cits. It follows road cambers due to it's stupid poogoe suspension geomotry forced onto it, has normal PAS (instead of daravi steering like any *real* citroen should have). Bumps in the middle can make the car *feel* unsecure, it's probably not, but certainly it doesn't seemlessly plough over them without deviation like the CX, GS, DS. I guess it's a car for modern roads, there a lot smoother and cornering/bodyroll is more of an issue than outright comfort.

    Then we get to the Xantia, I have a VSX hydractive, I hate it's *proper* Citroen brakes, to make the brake pedal *feel* like a normal cars (ie: have lots of movement and slack/slop) they decided to put a spring between the brake pedal and the brake valve, so when you put your foot on the brakes, you must first compress this spring. The worst Citroen brakes I've EVER used and I will fix them when I get time by throwing that hidiously dangerous spring in the bin and replacing it with a solid metal rod. I was suprised that everyone complains about how poorly the VSX rides, mine rides MUCH better than the BX, but handles with next to no bodyroll, yet is so soft in the bum I can easily push the back suspension to the bumpstops with one hand. Great car for a modern bland thing, once again the steering is not proper daravi steering, it's normal PAS which feels like it has a terible number of turns lock 2 lock. Feels about 8turns lock 2 lock but is probably less I drove a Xantia SX which is basically a BX underneath. Huge dissapointment, it corners with a little/no bodyroll as my hydractive Xantia, but rides even more poorly than a BX as it's tied down so tightly in the suspension. Infact it's almost to the point where you wonder why they bothered putting hydraulics under it at all

    So there you go: CX's, GS's and DS's == awesome cars
    BX's and Xantias == quite ok for the wife to drive, and you to use when you want a car with air condtioning (a definate CX, GS/DS failure).

    They all (with possibly the exclusion of the Xantia SX) kill the equivelant poogoe for ride comfort and handling in my highly impartial view

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,160

    Default

    damn... makes me wanna go & buy an old Cit!!!

    What about that new BOSE suspension?
    basically looks very similar to the old Cit package, but done electronically not hydro...

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •