Closest thing to a hoist
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  1. #1
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    Default Closest thing to a hoist

    Well a hoist is probably going to be a bit expensive... so i'm needing an alternative method to getting underneath the car!

    Car ramps, well they're OK... but the RS doesnt have that much clearance on bumpers & can be a tad tricky getting on them at times (slip etc...)

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    Any other suggestions?
    Tricks with Car ramps?

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    Fellow Frogger! dave from bendigo's Avatar
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    all you need to do is put pieces of wood at the bottom of the car ramps so that the incline is decreased.
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    UFO
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    I think Dave means to put the pieces of wood in front of the ramp lip so that the tyres go onto the pieces of wood then start up the ramp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    I think Dave means to put the pieces of wood in front of the ramp lip so that the tyres go onto the pieces of wood then start up the ramp.
    Just make sure you're easy on the throttle ... or the wood can spit out backwards at you !!

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    Last edited by XTC206; 16th December 2004 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Typos
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    there was a post suggesting using old seat belt material to aid driving up ramps, by attaching to the top and wrapped around the wheel of the vehicle.

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    The answer is simple,

    it's only a little wenoe, just get a couple of mates to lift it onto it's side if you want to get under it Just make sure they don't get to drunk to roll it back onto it's wheels when your finished

    seeya,
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    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    A house that I once rented had a genuine pit. Did wonders if you had a hydraulic problem on a DS! I've always intended to build one here, but somehow digging out the necessary depth in heavy clay without a backhoe has never quite appealed!

    If you have a decent "drop off" on your property then a half length trestle support built out of solid railway sleepers that you can drive onto is just about as good (as long as you have a relation with a degree in civil engineering )

    Shane's solution works well in the outback. I reckon paint condition has always been a bit over-rated anyway.

    But the simple answer of a bit of wood to work with the ramp works adequately for most people.

    Cheers

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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    If you had a trolley jack you could raise the car from the centre high enough to put ramps under the wheels, could be a reasonable outlay. Similarly axle stands may assist.

    ed ge

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    If you had a trolley jack you could raise the car from the centre high enough to put ramps under the wheels, could be a reasonable outlay. Similarly axle stands may assist.

    ed ge
    or you could dig a hole in the front yard and drive the car over it, like a shallow pit.

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    yeah i quickly found the wood trick... (gimmie some credit!!!)
    The ol man is a Civ Eng, so thats covered

    Trolley jack might be a go-er!!!

    I'm looking for alternative solutions here dont forget!

    oh & how do i stop the [email protected] ramps from slipping on the ground?
    i go easy up em & they just keep sliding back & i can never really make it up em easy enuf? hmmmm

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    Fellow Frogger! Phil Whitton's Avatar
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    If you wish to persue the ramps: go to the local timber yard and get 2 lengths of about 4foot x 8x2. Drill a hole about 2" from end and locate the same in the ramp about the point where the ramp levels out. drop a 2" coach bolt in and bolt up. This will both stabilise the timber from spitting back and reduce the forward thrust when driving up as the angle of incline is reduced. ( pardon the imperial measurements but thats how I was taught)
    One problem is that it reduces side access.

    You could also approach your local garage for hiring their hoist.
    Our Car Club booked the local servo on a Sat arvo just before the annual concourse to steam clean the cars. On completion we steam cleaned the lube bay. Come Monday morning he had a sparkling lube bay to start work again.

    But then again nothing beats a hoist.

    Bon chance

  13. #13
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    The ramps are a good idea but limits you to working only on the front of the car. I have a set of axle stands and a trolley jack & just hoist it up high & dry and then stick the stands under it.
    I missed out on a ripper a while back though and one worth keeping an eye out for. An old car carrier had found its way into a local wrecking yard and the top deck was for sale. How good would that be? Bolted to a set of concrete pillars, the car could be driven on and used as is where is for low lie under jobs and jacked up using is hydraulics if height was wanted.
    We debated this same topic a few years back and Shane has since made his own drive on ramp that would be priceless for most under car work; I've no doubts he'll post a pic of it soon.

    Alan S
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    This is the one from the new inventors

    http://www.cartar.com.au/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_K
    This is the one from the new inventors
    http://www.cartar.com.au/
    As on the ABC site ... $4400

    http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1226003.htm

    - xTc -
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  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yep,

    I have made some ramps, the idea behind the making of them is sound, however I should have put more effort inot the making of them.

    The simplest thing to do would be to make some full length ramps like you can find at some exhaust places over there pits and wheel alignment places. The biggest problem with full length ramps is in my single garage is that full length ramps would literally fill it and any car ever parked in the shed would have to be driven up onto them. Being so big they would be waaaayyy to heavy to move. Then we have the fact you need a 'run up' to get onto the ramps, this would mean the ramps would end up being the length of two cars

    As I wanted to get 'flat' citroens up on the ramps they had to have an extremely low angle of departure.

    My thinking was to make 4 stands with "bridges" between them that could be pulled apart and stashed out of the way. The rear sits lower than the front so hopefully the car will not 'beach' itself in the middle on the way up.



    This gave great room under the car :



    Something I didn't think of was not only was it an, er, "exciting" experiance driving the car up there (well bloody terrifying actually ) it also wasn't very usable. You see to get under the bonnet of the car you almost needed a ladder

    So I changed the ramps so they could lay flat giving 50cm of height the full length of the car.

    So you have a series of "bridges" that you drive the car up, the back "bridges" are very long (slightly longer than a DS). This allows 'dead' citroens to be winched up onto them. Once the car is up there you can unbolt the bridges and move the out of the way.

    So when doing things like rebuilding the front suspension on my car I remove the "bridges" and move the stand so it's can be used as an axle stand.





    They work extremely well, however they are fiddly to pull apart, and I've bent all the bridges at one time or other, wether it's from forgeting I have the ramps up on the step in my shed (it's a pain in the @rse having a split level shed) and not putting blocks under the supporting 'legs' of the bridges, or me being stupid and not lining the ramps up properly so the get further together as I drive up them or further apart (grrrrrr), This causes me to drive off the edges of the ramps buckling the bridges. The stands themselves you could park a tank on and not bend.

    If I was to make something like this again I would put a LOT more time into using a tape measure and ensuring the bridges are MUCH wider (bloody Citroens being wider at the front than the back --and me trying to use less metal 'cos it's so expensive ). I would also bolt a section of metal between the ramps so they stay the same distance apart front to back (so I don't drive off them ... ). The $$$ put into buying the metal just adds up so quickly I didn't want to spend anymore.

    There an awesome set of ramps for what I use them for, however there not the sort of thing I can even lend to anyone without making new 'bridges' for fear they will not line everything up correctly and drive off them. It's take 15minutes to unbolt them and move them out of the shed when not in use (remembering they are probably longer than 10meters when assembled).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  17. #17
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    I use a trolley jack, jacking a beam made of 2" water pipe with a steel pad on each end. It lifts the front of the car, level, all at once, then I whack axle stands under. Same on the rear.

    Top tip, though, is to keep those big cardboard boxes you get with appliances etc. to lay on the floor under the car. Opened out, they are comfortable to lie on, slippery enough to move on (who needs a creeper?) and will absorb smallish spills & oil. When dirty, chuck it out and use another...
    Stuey


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  18. #18
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    nothing works better then a hole in the ground i.e. a trench/pit you can drive a car over... one of the back yard mechanics around where i have lived has had one of these made up properly... i do mean properly made, i.e. deep enough that you can stand up in it, cut out of an incline and then cemented in when the shed got put over it... it works in my honest opinion as good as, if not better then a hoist... the only problem with it, is if you're vertically challenged....

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    X2 V, They are one hell of a set of ramps

    A vast improvement on sky hooks, (why was this not suggested).

    A pit is not a one size fits all solution and are bloody dangerous.
    Picture an open pit, a few fellow spanner feasters and an empty box of green can dreaming. It won't be long before someone takes a dive.
    Also, a messy fuel tank flush, (plastic bag intermittently blocking the pick-up and no, I have no idea how that got in there and was a bastard to diagnose after carb/ fuel pump replacement and much electrical tinkering), car out and a stray fag butt, what a flash/bang. Pits are banned in most work places for good reason.

    Keep an eye out at the auctions and clearance sales for bust businesses, you will eventually find a hoist at a reasonable price.
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  20. #20
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma
    X2 V, They are one hell of a set of ramps

    A vast improvement on sky hooks, (why was this not suggested).

    A pit is not a one size fits all solution and are bloody dangerous.
    Picture an open pit, a few fellow spanner feasters and an empty box of green can dreaming. It won't be long before someone takes a dive.
    I was going to put a pit in the shed when I built one. Finances say this will be a considerable time in the future. We built a kneel down put in my father shed. Lined it with plastic, shaped it's bottom so any leakage would sit at one point (that we made deliberatly low). I'm not sure why but everytime I've used it I've had to spend a couple of hours bucketing it out. It's always covered when not in use, but even when using it I've managed to fall in it (you take a step backwards while lifting something heavy, that instant realisation of what you have done when your foot step into mid air

    I've also got a very young child now, so a pit is a huge minus.


    Keep an eye out at the auctions and clearance sales for bust businesses, you will eventually find a hoist at a reasonable price.
    Yep, only a 2post hoist will not get under a flat Citroen, and a 4post is quite a bit more expensive. Then you have the problem that when you install it in your shed you will only be able to lift your car about 50cm before you crush it's roof on your shed roof If you can stand on your cars roof in your shed, it's high enough for a hoist.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  21. #21
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Another thought that we canvassed previously too and which I still believe is practical and to a degree I think spawned Shanes set up, is to look at either a couple of pieces of chequerplate or lengths of box section with gussets across and chocks at the front (to avoid driving off the end) as well as side pieces for extra rigidity and to act as wheel guides.
    Build a prop out of RSJ or box section on each side at the front and bolt to a concrete floor at say 1 metre high. Attach the ramps to a round steel pin and also set another height pin at a lesser height so as to allow for doing jobs such as gearbox removals etc. The pin must be round to allow for it to swivel. The whole thing now sits like a see-saw with one end on the floor and the other 1 metre+ in the air sitting on the height pins on the front props. Approx 300 mm in from the bottom end is fitted a solid box section cross piece with a reinforced plate across the bottom and a section recessed by say 6mm plating fitted on 4 sides around the selected recessed area. The final section between this plate and the floor has a removeable piece of chequerplate fitted to act as a ramp to drive the car up on in the first place and once the car is on, the wheels chocked and this piece removed. A trolley jack is then rolled into position under the recessed reinforced section and the entire thing jacked to the selected height. At thhis point, a set of rear props similar in size and construction are fitted in under the end of the ramp and locked into position. If box section is used as guides on teh sides of the ramps, it is then possible to make a cross piece so that bottle or scissor jacks can be used to remove wheels or support gearboxes etc,
    Upon completion of the work, the rear legs are removed and the jack slowly released, the bottom section refitted and the car backed off regardless of it's suspension height/ground clearance. If there is any concern about the ability to support the weight, there is always the option to fit a set of centre legs.
    The entire car is off the ground, no problems with skirts and air dams and if it is felt necessary, the dimensions for the height can be increased or an optional lower height could be installed.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  22. #22
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Another thought that we canvassed previously too and which I still believe is practical and to a degree I think spawned Shanes set up, is to look at either a couple of pieces of chequerplate or lengths of box section with gussets across and chocks at the front (to avoid driving off the end) as well as side pieces for extra rigidity and to act as wheel guides.
    Build a prop out of RSJ or box section on each side at the front and bolt to a concrete floor at say 1 metre high. Attach the ramps to a round steel pin and also set another height pin at a lesser height so as to allow for doing jobs such as gearbox removals etc. The pin must be round to allow for it to swivel. The whole thing now sits like a see-saw with one end on the floor and the other 1 metre+ in the air sitting on the height pins on the front props. Approx 300 mm in from the bottom end is fitted a solid box section cross piece with a reinforced plate across the bottom and a section recessed by say 6mm plating fitted on 4 sides around the selected recessed area. The final section between this plate and the floor has a removeable piece of chequerplate fitted to act as a ramp to drive the car up on in the first place and once the car is on, the wheels chocked and this piece removed. A trolley jack is then rolled into position under the recessed reinforced section and the entire thing jacked to the selected height. At thhis point, a set of rear props similar in size and construction are fitted in under the end of the ramp and locked into position. If box section is used as guides on teh sides of the ramps, it is then possible to make a cross piece so that bottle or scissor jacks can be used to remove wheels or support gearboxes etc,
    Upon completion of the work, the rear legs are removed and the jack slowly released, the bottom section refitted and the car backed off regardless of it's suspension height/ground clearance. If there is any concern about the ability to support the weight, there is always the option to fit a set of centre legs.
    The entire car is off the ground, no problems with skirts and air dams and if it is felt necessary, the dimensions for the height can be increased or an optional lower height could be installed.

    Alan S
    Yep,

    that is exactly what I was going to make, however when I costed buying material to make ramps strong enough to support a car along there length I canned the idea. If you could get some cheap lengths of really heavy box section it'd be a winner.

    The ramps I've made can be more useful in the way all you need to do is jack the corner of the car up and you can move the stand away for easy access to suspension arms (for suspension rebuilds).

    The ramps I made are ideal for me, but probably far to fiddly and cumbersome for anyone that doesn't fiddle with Citroens. Really who needs the whole car 1/2meter off the ground ?? Not many people, but it sure as hell makes EVERYTHING easy. I curse having to get under a flat Citroen swinging on axle stands now. Everything is awkward and cramped.

    The height is also great for working on a flat citroen, anyone that's had to try and work on a Citroen on 'low' knows it's a back breaking experiance bending down that low

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! Atan's Avatar
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    This is what I have done to get access to my 928s as my spoiler scrapes on metal ramps. Get some lengths of timber about 40mm high and 250mm wide. Cut two lenghts each of 1.25 m, 4 lengths of 0.5 mm. Nail them like steps. You may wish to fir a small piece at the end like a cap to prevent you from going too far. Drive up the ramp slowly. This will raise the front of the car by aprox 120mmmm. You may then jack up the cack of the car and place car stands on the rear jacking points so that the car is level. This should give you access to do oil changes and monor work
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Or Nate, you could use the vehicles jack to lift individual wheel then prop with axle stands, minimum safe working environment. Dying to know which of all the afore mentioned "simple" solutions you are deciding to use.

    cheers ed ge

  25. #25
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    We have a winner...

    2 trolley jacks & axle stands

    Cheers Alan!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    The ramps are a good idea but limits you to working only on the front of the car. I have a set of axle stands and a trolley jack & just hoist it up high & dry and then stick the stands under it.
    I missed out on a ripper a while back though and one worth keeping an eye out for. An old car carrier had found its way into a local wrecking yard and the top deck was for sale. How good would that be? Bolted to a set of concrete pillars, the car could be driven on and used as is where is for low lie under jobs and jacked up using is hydraulics if height was wanted.
    We debated this same topic a few years back and Shane has since made his own drive on ramp that would be priceless for most under car work; I've no doubts he'll post a pic of it soon.

    Alan S

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