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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! DRD180's Avatar
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    Default for those that like to drive hard

    just a note for those that like to drive over the posted speed limits, road conditions etc no matter how good you know the road.

    monday I turned up to work to find that 2 work mates were involved in a serious accident 1 died and the other is in serious condition and another died in a seperate incident.

    point is, think of your family and friends when on the road as this incident has affected almost everyone at my work and surrounding work places.

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    drive safe and be safe if not for you but your famies.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    What do you know about the accident?

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    Fellow Frogger! DRD180's Avatar
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    So does anyone know what happened?

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    UFO
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    In relation to the triple fatal (and others like it) this says it accurately, unfortunately

    SMH 26/11/04

    Craig K
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    God... but morbid... one.

    Still no details on the circumstances?

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    This subject hits a bit of a nerve with most people but i'd just like to say that, sure speed is definatly a factor in car accidents but what about driver training? All this new cars from v8's to little corolla's have more power these days and continue to become more powerful ech year but all you need to do to get your licence is read a book and do a three point turn! I mean c'mon! Where is driver training? I live in Melbourne and the driving standard here is SH*T! wank**s in turbo cars that couldn't even ride a bicycle at it's full potetial safely are out on the roads, cutting people like me off whilst I'm minding my own business, commodores that handle like a wheelbarrow trying to swerve in a 'panic' situation, and speed camera's and three point turns are supposed to fix this?
    I have enrolled myself in advanced driver courses, but I am one of few, and it should be compulsary.
    So come on Australia, smarten up and make our roads safer because the government wont! that's my
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    Fellow Frogger! DRD180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    God... but morbid... one.

    Still no details on the circumstances?
    Ray nothing official has been released yet, but they were not speeding and the accident happened just after it started to rain so at work we assume he knew the road well enough but hit a slipery patch on a corner. I will post when I have the official report.


    danemi16, driver training issues have been noted in the clio group forum

  9. #9
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    My empathy is with the victims of this incident and tragedy.
    Only can agee with more and better training. Too long to go into discussions but an article in Melbourn's Herald Sun, Friday 26/11/04 by Bob Watson (ex rally driver) gives an excellent account. Might be on their website.
    Driving down from the Gold Coast earliar this week i saw a few stupid examples. Driving rain and reduced visivility - everybody still driving at the posted limits. Why not, its legal. Snd no cops with radar guns.
    Glorius day, divide highway, light traffic, everybody straining and getting drousy sitting on the posted limit. And guess what? Three copcars with radars sitting in bushes on a 200km stretch.
    Whats more, a copcar in Conformadore passing us at well over 150km/h,no blue lights, no headlights on(rushing to an overtuned truck as it turned out).
    It is a mantra in victoria that it is not safe to speed. No wonder nurds like me bocome cynical.
    As the cliche goes - common sense...

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Bob Watson's article isn't on the net...

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    A couple of years ago a few friends of mine were in a Datsun 200B that hit a power pole at over 150 kmh. 3 were killed and 2 injured as the car was cut in half. I have been nearly hit so many times by idiots who think they are Peter Brock that it makes my blood boil when I see such behaviour. there are too many idiots out there, it is not enough to be a good driver, you must also be a good swerver if you want to live.
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! DRD180's Avatar
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    to true, but what ever happened to the days of when dad would teach his son how to DRIVE a car. I know my limits and i will never exceed my limits on the public roads.

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    Do people get taught to DRIVE or to pass a test???

    As a Trainer by profession I ask this of the participants I am training to be trainers.

    I aslo maintain that car design also plays a role in this type of accident. A ute light on back loses control!

    My daughter was in a commodore hit oil slick she lost it and head on with two other vehicles. Her partned died and she was on life support for 4 weeks.

    Yes the trauma for those involved is just about unexplainable unless you have been there.

    My daughter has beaten the odds despite horrific injuries and never expected to leave insitutions has now completed Certificate IV at TAFE. As a parent I do worry as to how she will cope in the longer time. Will people make allowances for some of her problems that she will have with her for the rest of her life?

    Yes the road toll is just a number till it arrives on your doorstep.

    Graelin

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    Fellow Frogger! DRD180's Avatar
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    I know were you are coming from and the answer no matter what anyone has to say is ' pass a test'

    My work mate is finally of life support but still has not been told of the death of his best friend. have had to go through this 3 times over the last 15 years. I hope the govt pushes through some sort of reform to the current tests/ restrictions.

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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    the road tole ias actually down 30% from 2002 so things arent all doom and gloom..

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    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graelin
    Do people get taught to DRIVE or to pass a test???
    My daughter was in a commodore hit oil slick she lost it and head on with two other vehicles. Her partned died and she was on life support for 4 weeks.
    Usually it's just Pass a Test, THEN you learn how to survive on the road.

    But accidents do happen, there may have been very little that could have been done in your daughters case, even if she had all the driver training in the world. Things happen without reason - my 22YO cousin died from SADS .

    We can't stop the accidents, but we must be able to stop the idiocy, testing won't do that.

    - XTC -
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRD180
    to true, but what ever happened to the days of when dad would teach his son how to DRIVE a car. I know my limits and i will never exceed my limits on the public roads.

    that's ok but who taught the father how to drive, his father of course

    this then allows bad habits to be passed on from generation to generation

    it's good to learn the basics but there is a lot more to be learnt in operating a motor vehicle

    next time you are out on the road just see how many people sit well within the 2 sec margin for starters behind the other car

    not only does this annoy the crap out of the person in front but the car following also has less cool air flowing through the radiator and of course they are sucking up the other cars exhaust fumes

    then watch to see how many people actually look where they are going

    in normal driving how many times has someone been driving along and looked at a pothole in the road and hit it ?

    the car will go follow your eyes

    most people won't look through a corner but look straight ahead and turn the wheel

    they tend to keep an eye on the white line and not the road

    these are simple things but they make a big difference

    how many people use their left hand mirror or does the passenger set it for themselves ?

    so many things and they are only minor but they all add up to bieng a better driver
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    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    next time you are out on the road just see how many people sit well within the 2 sec margin for starters behind the other car
    Leave a 2 sec gap in VIC or NSW traffic and you'll have 3 cars push in front of you (at ANY speed) ... and that's part of the problem, everyone thinks they need to be in a hurry, it's like one BIG competetion, and what do you win ... 1 car length .. Whooopeeeee.

    - XTC -
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  19. #19
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    Leave a 2 sec gap in VIC or NSW traffic and you'll have 3 cars push in front of you (at ANY speed) ... and that's part of the problem, everyone thinks they need to be in a hurry, it's like one BIG competetion, and what do you win ... 1 car length .. Whooopeeeee.

    - XTC -
    I love it when others zoom past me on the F6 (on the way to Sydney) and are maybe doing 125+. Sooner or later I catch up with them or pass them even as we weave our way towards the city. And the bonus is they are racing up to all the traffic lights and setting them off for you to arrive in graceful style and proceed onwards

    Maintaining a gap in city traffic is a challenge, but you can also do it by backing off a little - the time difference is so minimal.
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  20. #20
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    I have been involved in 3 car crashes where I've been 'lucky' to have only been injuried. One took 5 years to recover from and the last one I still have treatment for (just came from the physio). My BIG problem with the currrent gov't "solutions" of red light cameras, speed cameras, larger fines, and demerit points is WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO?

    The gov't collects millions in revenue but this has not been fed back into driver education, driver training, and better roads. There is a section of road near me which locals refer to as 'The tree of death'. 3 lives have been lost in 3 separate accidents. The road is in poor condition, has uneven surface, a negative camber, and during winter often floods. The gov't solution has been to reduce the speed limit by 10kms/hr. Two cheap sign posts!

    I want compulsory license retesting every 5 years, after every DUI charge, and after ever serious accident where one party clearly made a driver error. This would be funded by the speed and red light camera fines. This would retrain people who got their license decades ago under questionable testing conditions. (My mum had to drive the local cop to the deli so he could buy smokes. The test involved 1 righthand turn, 1 U-turn, and 1 lefthand turn). It would also train people to new road laws which have changed considerably in the last five years. It would train people in their newer, heavier, ABS assisted, more powerful cars. I firmly believe that this would have aq greater effect in reducing the road toll than more bloody cameras.
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotchopper

    I want compulsory license retesting every 5 years, after every DUI charge, and after ever serious accident where one party clearly made a driver error. This would be funded by the speed and red light camera fines. This would retrain people who got their license decades ago under questionable testing conditions. (My mum had to drive the local cop to the deli so he could buy smokes. The test involved 1 righthand turn, 1 U-turn, and 1 lefthand turn). It would also train people to new road laws which have changed considerably in the last five years. It would train people in their newer, heavier, ABS assisted, more powerful cars. I firmly believe that this would have aq greater effect in reducing the road toll than more bloody cameras.

    compulsory retesting is not the answer

    the answer is compulsory driver education before a licence is re-issued

    what they need to do is send anyone who looses their licence to sit for something along the lines of advanced driving and they MUST pass before they even think about bieng allowed to drive on the road again

    this is to come out of their own pockets and it has to be done through a reputable driving school or one of the police run courses

    they then have to pay at least $200 for their licence and then they should only have a probationary licence for 12 months after they are returned to the road before getting a full licence back

    by probationary i don't mean 'P' plates, it is the same licence as a full version but the holder of such is only allowed to accumulate 2 demerit points

    before any of this though a psych test needs to be carried out to ensure the person is of a fit mind to be allowed behind the wheel of a motor vehicle

    we have already been through this a number of times on the forum and some of us have even sent letters off to various offices
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  22. #22
    XTC
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    Ban Cars and Walk The bottom line, until we have fully fail-safe automated systems (ie the driver has NO control over the car, only the destination - wouldn't THAT sux), car fatalities can only be reduced so much. Still potential for pedestrians though. Before someone bites, I'm not suggesting there isn't room for improvement .. but what is a realistic figure for a national average we shoud be aiming for ... 1000, 100, 10, 0* ???

    * What .. a perfect world

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  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! DRD180's Avatar
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    that would take forever to program in the putty road

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Default My good friend died

    I had a mate, I still do acutally..

    He lived up in Port Macquarie. Had a rental place he rented out in Cessnock.

    His life was always riddled with crap, alot like my own. But things started to look up for him. He had a nice job, and was transfering to another branch, closer to Cessnock.

    The farewell he had on this one night. he packed himself some sleeping bags, a change of under garmets and was planning on drinking and sleeping in the car. Smart.

    But in the heat of the moment, he was giving like last $5 to some of the girls at the party and he just sat in the drivers seat from force of habit, started the car.

    He probably thought he could make it home. And start his journey back down the coast the following day.

    He made it 3/4 of the way home, to Wauchope. Went around a bend. Police investigation suggests he touched the dirt on the side of the road, spun out of control. came to a rest facing the opposite direction, but on the other side of the road. As if he just meant to go back.

    He sat there in his drunken state for an unkown time, when a truck that goes past there every morning at 3am, came around the bend at 90km/h. Not expecting to have a car sitting there, standing still. and smashed the living shit out the car, and my mate.

    Its funny, how at funerals, you get together with some people you haven't seen in so long, and others you just met that are very interesting.

    I never drink and drive at all. This comes from a habit I formed many years ago as a motorcyclist. But these days, I use to have one light ale every now and then, and make sure I was driving well over an hour later, with a large glass of water and other non-alcoholic stuff.

    But after this, its sort of "sobered" me up, if you mind the pun. And I never drink when I have my car keys in my pocket.

    Even if the cab charge is $50. That's still cheaper then the funeral my wife will have to pay for.

    pipsqeek

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    .....I ve actually thought about this a bit....and looking back at my own experiences...I m sad to say but I think ONE of the only ways to curb MANY of these deaths is to IMPOSE a penalty that punishes not just the driver but all the OCCUPANTS......so ...lets say you ve got two or three guys/ gals in the car
    and the driver decides to exxceed the limit substantially...lets say 15km+.....I think in this situation all three should be given a speeding fine and one that would also DEDUCT points before the sub 18olds have even got their livcence (ie they d have to earn the points back somehow before they can sit).....

    I think PEER pressure would then really start to take effect towards a positive outcome...as in "DO NOT SPEED WHILE I M IN THE CAR WITH YOU....AS "I" do not WANT TO PAY FOR IT (financially, mentally or phisicallY)....."

    The reason I believe this would reduce the road toll significantly is the fact the THE SHOW_OFF factor plays a role in many of these mishaps.....accidents are bound to happen.....but if the passangers HAD to behave more responsibly,...surely this would impact on the driver more in the long run than any given fixed speed camera......




    cheers


    dino

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