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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Rusty@'s Avatar
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    Icon3 New Hot Hatch

    Hi All,

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    I have decided that it was time to buy a new car, and I have set my sights firmly on the European Hot Hatch market. I would like any thoughts or any user reviews if possible on any of the following cars to help me out. They are all magnificent cars, some with more pros some with more cons. My list below is in no particular order. However, the BMW and Renault are high on the list for preference reasons.

    BMW 120i (WOW it's a rear wheel drive hatch!! )
    Renault Clio Sport (Really interested to hear reviews on this lil' un)
    Peugeot 206 GTi 180 (electrical problems so I hear??)
    VW Golf GTi
    Alfa 147 GTA (Probably more inclined to stay with a 4 pot though)
    Citroen C3 (are these fast or not??)
    Audi A3 Ambition 2.0 FSi

    Any thoughts would be hugely appreciated, and hopefully interest anyone else to join my "want club" of hot euro hatches

    Thanks Guys and Glas, look forward to hearing back
    Current: '06 Iron Grey 407 SV HDi '02 Silver Audi S4 '05 GTi 180
    ----------------------------------------------
    Previous: '05 Aegean Blue GTi 180
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    Previous: '04 Sahara Gold 206 GTi
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    Previous: '95 Silver 405 SRDT (Fantastic Tourer)

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
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    Well I wouldn't call the C3 a hot hatch, not really close. The C2 would be better choice, but that is more of mildly warm hatch than hot. Nicer handling than the C3, looks sportier (a nice looking little car). Sensodrive take a bit of an edge off the performance, but it still goes ok.

    There is also the Xsara VTS, creams the C2 for performance, handling and comfort. But I do not know if they have any left in Australia or not.

    Troy.

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    Fellow Frogger! matt205's Avatar
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    Does this mean you don't want the 405 spoiler now?

    The BMW is ugly in pics and even uglier in the flesh (looks like a hearse) and not cheap, with BMW everything is an option. There's some very different cars here, I think you need to first decide if you want performance or luxury. If performance is the key criteria then there's really on 3 worth considering the Pug, the Clio and the Alfa, the rest are probabky more luxury hatches.
    Regards,
    Matt
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    "Imagine watching the entire French Air-Force crash into a fireworks factory. That's how much fun this car is."

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  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Rusty@'s Avatar
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    Hey Matt,

    Yeah I think we've left it a lil late for the spoiler now. So what do you not like about the 1 series?? I found it to be absolutely amazing to drive (6speed and rear wheel) and it looked awesome. Just so many little things that made it stand out from the rest. Certainly bumped to the top of my list after I drove it. I was that close to buying on Sat until I was told that there was atleast a 4 month wait. If I order now I won't get it till march/april.

    Then I saw the clio and golf. I particularly like the clio styling and power, and love the 6 speed gearbox in the golf and BMW. I'm test driving the clio sport on Wednesday. I'll let you know what I think. THe PUG 180 is sadly low. Little small and some bad reviews that have put me off it. Don't get me wrong, I love the styling and will definitely take it for a drive, but until then she remains low on the list.

    Thanks for the input though, I really appreciate the thoughts. The forum may well change my mind about the Pug 180 and if it does then I'll be over the moon. But at this stage the reviews have been disheartening.
    Current: '06 Iron Grey 407 SV HDi '02 Silver Audi S4 '05 GTi 180
    ----------------------------------------------
    Previous: '05 Aegean Blue GTi 180
    ----------------------------------------------
    Previous: '04 Sahara Gold 206 GTi
    ---------------------------------------------
    Previous: '95 Silver 405 SRDT (Fantastic Tourer)

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    From that list the REAL hot hatch is the Clio. With a small gap to the 180 and the ALFA. I drove the GTA at Eastern Creek and it felt a little numb around the tight stuff but reveled in the faster corners. I haven't driven a Clio or a 180 on the track, but the Clio is certainly quick.
    In terms of build quality/fit/finish the BMW would arguably win hands down, followed by the VW; with questions over all the other candidates.
    Licon (gti124) owned a Golf GTi, but the real hot VW is the R32, I remember Lincon saying he wasn't happy with his ol GTi. The other problem is the new golf is out and we don't much abbout em' yet.
    personally id be gunning for a new Clio Sport. - Chris
    ... ptui!

  6. #6
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    I wouldn't have the Golf GTI on your list unless you're willing to spend another $10K on it to fix the problems with it. It's not a very fun car in base trim. It's merely a warm cruiser.

    A nice place to cruise in, but not a true GTI.

    I'd check out the Megane Sport or wait for the C4 VTS, if you're after a medium car.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Rusty@'s Avatar
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    I just bought the new Motor magazine today and guess what!! There's a four page article on the New Clio Sport Cup series!!! Wow do they give it a big thumbs up. What struck me is their comment that they didn't believe the Clio needed an upgrade but now it really does pull some stares from on lookers.

    The Clio Cup is fast with 131 Kw, nice looking body upgrade with twin exhaust nice big wheels and a pleasant looking interior!! So guess what I'm booked in for a test drive on Wednesday. Motor makes the comment:

    "Hang the suspense- here it is, nice and early: The Renault Sport Clio Cup is an absolute cracker"

    Nothing but the highest praise, I suggest you check the article out. That said, it doesn't mean I'm sold on it. Still have to drive it, but if it handles as well as the BMW, well I'm sorry but the BMW will have to take the back seat

    It's looking like people have a preference to the Clio. Just so you know, I would like performnce more than comfort, but the comfort levels need to be high enough for long trips up to Sydney and down to Melbourne once in a while.

    Cheers Guys
    Current: '06 Iron Grey 407 SV HDi '02 Silver Audi S4 '05 GTi 180
    ----------------------------------------------
    Previous: '05 Aegean Blue GTi 180
    ----------------------------------------------
    Previous: '04 Sahara Gold 206 GTi
    ---------------------------------------------
    Previous: '95 Silver 405 SRDT (Fantastic Tourer)

  8. #8
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    as others have stated, a golf wouldn't be on a lit of hot hatches. Unless your willing to pay for a top of the line model, they're boring to look at and pretty boring to drive, they cruise well but are hardly "hot" i'd consider them mildly warm
    Last edited by orestes; 8th November 2004 at 07:43 PM.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Rusty@'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    as others have stated, a gold wouldn't be on a lit of hot hatches. Unless your willing to pay for a top of the line model, they're boring to look at and pretty boring to drive, they cruise well but are hardly "hot" i'd consider them mildly warm

    What hatch of the list or missing from the list would you consider as hot?? Excluding the 205 or any older hatches. I like them a lot but am looking at new.
    Current: '06 Iron Grey 407 SV HDi '02 Silver Audi S4 '05 GTi 180
    ----------------------------------------------
    Previous: '05 Aegean Blue GTi 180
    ----------------------------------------------
    Previous: '04 Sahara Gold 206 GTi
    ---------------------------------------------
    Previous: '95 Silver 405 SRDT (Fantastic Tourer)

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    What hatch of the list or missing from the list would you consider as hot?? Excluding the 205 or any older hatches. I like them a lot but am looking at new.
    Ford Focus ST170? Lincoln, your thoughts.

    Troy.

  11. #11
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TroyO
    Ford Focus ST170? Lincoln, your thoughts.

    Troy.
    I'm really enjoying my ST. Not sure if you can buy it new anymore, if you can get one 2nd hand they would make good buying.

    Volvo S40 T5 would also have to be considered if you want a warm car that is good at cruising.

    I just have my doubts that a car as small as the Clio/180 would be on regular long drives between Sydney and Melbourne. This opinion is based on wheelbase, mainly. My ST did that drive without any trouble at all, was very comfortable, much more comfortable than the GTI6 was.

    I did Glenrowan to Goulburn in one hit in the ST. Very comfy, yet fun when you need it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    I did Glenrowan to Goulburn in one hit in the ST. Very comfy, yet fun when you need it.
    That all? I've done Melb-Syd (and Syd-Melb) numerous times, as well as Shepparton-Sydney for that Aussiefrogs dinner last November. Easy in the 306, which no doubt rides the same as the GTi6.

    I've driven MY4's RCS on the freeway and I thought it was very sure-footed, and it certainly didn't pitch back and forth (if that's what you mean when you refer to wheelbase).

    Derek

  13. #13
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    To be honest a drive to Wagga in the 6 would be quite tiring. I've never felt that level of tiredness in the ST.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    A few others that might interest you;

    * VW Golf 2.0 TDi. Not a hot hatch, rather a hatch with stacks of grunt.
    * Holden Astra SRiT. Theres a few left as far as I know. Bargain hard.
    * Honda Integra Type S. Now with more power.

    If you're prepared to spend 60K plus on a 147 GTA then have a look at an R32 Golf too.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    I just have my doubts that a car as small as the Clio/180 would be on regular long drives between Sydney and Melbourne. This opinion is based on wheelbase, mainly. My ST did that drive without any trouble at all, was very comfortable, much more comfortable than the GTI6 was.

    I did Glenrowan to Goulburn in one hit in the ST. Very comfy, yet fun when you need it.
    I did the usual Chrissy 7.5hr up north in the RS & didnt have any real problems with the comfort...
    the seat is really crappy & uncomfortable because there is NO back support at all, but i've since fixed that with some re-upholstering & so far its 1000% better...

  16. #16
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    I just bought the new Motor magazine today and guess what!! There's a four page article on the New Clio Sport Cup series!!! Wow do they give it a big thumbs up. What struck me is their comment that they didn't believe the Clio needed an upgrade but now it really does pull some stares from on lookers.
    If you are so keen on driving the RCS after one article then you should definitely drive the 180 too - it's certainly no smaller than the Clio is

    I've not spent much time in a Clio Sport (I thought the "expression" I drove was pretty good ), but I'm sure it would be an excellent hot hatch for you to enjoy.

    Personally I don't think either of them will be a problem on a long drive - the 180 is a very comfortable highway cruiser (though much nicer if it had cruise control...), but then I thought my old 306 was just as happy cruising long distances.

    For the record, what sort of rpm would the RCS be sitting on at highway speeds?
    Last edited by SLC206; 8th November 2004 at 07:43 PM.
    Regards,

    Simon

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206
    If you are so keen on driving the RCS after one article then you should definitely drive the 180 too - it's certainly no smaller than the Clio is

    I've not spent much time in a Clio Sport (I thought the "expression" I drove was pretty good ), but I'm sure it would be an excellent hot hatch for you to enjoy.

    Personally I don't think either of them will be a problem on a long drive - the 180 is a very comfortable highway cruiser (though much nicer if it had cruise control...), but then I thought my old 306 was just as happy cruising long distances.

    For the record, what sort of rpm would the RCS be sitting on at highway speeds?
    i'd have thought the clio would be smaller then the pug, it certainly looks it.

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    What hatch of the list or missing from the list would you consider as hot?? Excluding the 205 or any older hatches. I like them a lot but am looking at new.
    If you weren't looking at new, i'd seriousely consider looking at a Nissan Pulsar GTiR. But as you want new, have you thought about a Mini Cooper S, you could get one for about $38k. That would be well under the price of the alfa and slightly under the other BMW and the audi your looking at.

    if $60k wasn't out of the question, a golf R32 would be nice take one for a drive and you'll probably sell yourself on it even though it costs about twice as much, as the pug or ren

    are you definately looking for a hatchback ??
    Last edited by orestes; 8th November 2004 at 08:32 PM.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! Rusty@'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    if $60k wasn't out of the question, a golf R32 would be nice take one for a drive and you'll probably sell yourself on it even though it costs about twice as much, as the pug or ren

    are you definately looking for a hatchback ??
    If I had $60K to spend I'd probably buy the R32 but I don't unfortunately So my high mark is $50k. Honestly I'd love to try the R32 but I'm scared that I may not have enough restraint to say no so better stay out of it... I do need to eat guys

    Yeah I'm pretty sold on the hot hatch. I Like my 405 she has been wonderful to me but I just don't use her room. Plus hatches are quick and light, and easy to park in the city, and some of them are damn awesome vehicles.

    I had considered the Pulsar GTi-R but give me an example of one that hasn't been thrashed to hell and back and I'll consider it..... good luck in your findings They were just such fun cars that they begged to be thrashed. I'm pretty adiment (sorry about spelling) on the new car. I would like to spend money on a car that only I've driven, make it mine, no one elses

    The only sedan I'd consider is the BMW M3 (Maybe the 406/407coupe). Not strictly a sedan but a damn fine machine that has the length of a sedan. But hey if anyone feels that they have a spare $200K lying around that they just don't know what to do with, then I'm sure we can come to an agreement
    Current: '06 Iron Grey 407 SV HDi '02 Silver Audi S4 '05 GTi 180
    ----------------------------------------------
    Previous: '05 Aegean Blue GTi 180
    ----------------------------------------------
    Previous: '04 Sahara Gold 206 GTi
    ---------------------------------------------
    Previous: '95 Silver 405 SRDT (Fantastic Tourer)

  19. #19
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    if you had to wait until March/April next year for the Beemer - then i would wait until March/April next year to test the C4 VTS. But then again I am Citroen biased.

  20. #20
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Isn't Peugeot and Renault a French Ford and Holden?

  21. #21
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Where Justin,

    shouldn't he be recommending an Ovlov, or possibly a 1.4litre automatic 307

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    I had considered the Pulsar GTi-R but give me an example of one that hasn't been thrashed to hell and back and I'll consider it..... good luck in your findings They were just such fun cars that they begged to be thrashed. I'm pretty adiment (sorry about spelling) on the new car. I would like to spend money on a car that only I've driven, make it mine, no one elses

    you could always have one imported, most generally have less then 100k (closer to 80k) kilometers on them, if your lucky you could still probably find one to import that had 50k kilometers on it. Being what they are, there is a wide range of engine parts, as the SR20DET went into everything, from R32 Skylines, to silvia's to god knows what else so engine parts for them don't command supreme $'s IF something does go wrong. Bang for buck, you couldn't find a hatch with more power, and i have heard of GTi-R's with 500 ponies, on pretty much stock engine internals (nothing will beat the japs for an engine that you can push the sh*t out of without blowing up). Steering wise, they handle well but can feel a little numb with a lack of road sense, but they will handle as well as anything
    Last edited by orestes; 9th November 2004 at 02:37 PM.

  23. #23
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger!
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    if you want a real hot hatch why are you only going half way?

    how about importing a megane trophy, or a renault sport clio V6? looking big dollars, but damn, 300 odd bhp sounds pretty sweet when matched to renault sport handling.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    No nice Renault Alpines , just driven to the shops and back by a little old lady from Pasadeena around at present , then? Now those cars are FUN!

    Cheers

    Rod
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