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  1. #1
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Default Now that the 607 has been punished

    Now that the 607 is a few years old and has its resale value punished, do you reckon it's a good buy? Would you buy it over a 407 for example?

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    My parents are looking at replacing their Subaru Liberty Heritage, they do heaps of miles and are looking at going back to their Volvo roots with their next car. For their type of long distance driving style a Volvo wouldn't be such a bad idea, but I'm trying to lead them to alternatives.

    I'm thinking about the following so far (budget is $40 to mid $50s)

    - A couple year old 607 is in the $50s now
    - Jaguar X type
    - Volvo S60
    - Volvo S40/V50
    - Peugeot 407
    - Subaru Liberty GT/Heritage replacement
    - Citroen C5 (but not a serious consideration, it's just too bland...yes, even next to the Volvo!)

    Thoughts?

    - Lincoln
    Last edited by GTI124; 29th October 2004 at 09:04 AM.

  2. #2
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Lincoln a C5 bland I dont think so. A 607 is another top car. I would have one NOW if i had a spare 80k or i was a big business fat cat that was that cashed up.
    Steer them away from the volvos man. Keep with French. A 407 is another top car they are very nice too.

  3. #3
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    My mate workes in a garage in a largish country town. He says about Subarus that they see very few needing repairs - and he is a carnut as well with several Renaults and Pugs in his shed.
    JoBo

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    I too would have a 607 if I had a spare $80k lying around. Definitely would pick the 607 of the lot. Only thing you'd have to consider is the fuel consumption with the 3.0l engine.

    How about a diesel 307? Unless they don't mind forking out mid-40s for the diesel 407.

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    Get the subaru, I used to work for a motor mechanic, he worked on a lot of subies. They are on the whole an extreemly we built car, with good servicing will last a very very long time. I have seen 3 or more with over 400000km on them and are still running well. Main problems are the cv joints in the front.
    1987 Peugeot 505 GTD 2.5 Turbo

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    If its country driving...

    Are there age constraints on the car? What about a Jaguar S-Type, or even a previous shape Mercedes E-Class. Both would be great for long trips.

    If your folks price-range is 50-60K there are a HUGE number of superb cars to chose from. Does resale matter? I guess not if your considering the 607, it will only continue to drop like a rock.

    Jaguar X-Type has not really taken off, but it has many great rivals...

    Volvo S60's are dirt cheap 2nd hand (talk to Warwick?). Lots of deals on new ones too (Aktiv pack). S40 strictly 2 seater for long trips?

    I gather your parents are after a slightly alternative car, rather than random BMW's/Merc's/Audi's in the price range?

    What about the new Nissan Maxima even? Not really very alternative... but hmm. The current Outback is pretty damn good too. I dunno, this price bracket is spoilt for choice. Perhaps have a think about why the 607 has depreciated so much tho?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    Now that the 607 is a few years old and has its resale value punished, do you reckon it's a good buy? Would you buy it over a 407 for example?

    My parents are looking at replacing their Subaru Liberty Heritage, they do heaps of miles and are looking at going back to their Volvo roots with their next car. For their type of long distance driving style a Volvo wouldn't be such a bad idea, but I'm trying to lead them to alternatives.

    I'm thinking about the following so far (budget is $40 to mid $50s)

    - A couple year old 607 is in the $50s now
    - Jaguar X type
    - Volvo S60
    - Volvo S40/V50
    - Peugeot 407
    - Subaru Liberty GT/Heritage replacement
    - Citroen C5 (but not a serious consideration, it's just too bland...yes, even next to the Volvo!)

    Thoughts?

    - Lincoln
    The problem with a 607 is that you could buy one new for ~$60k - that's how unloved they were. I think $50k for one a few years old is way too much, and anyone asking that much is, as the movie said, dreaming (where's Warwick when you need him?). How many of these did they sell? Not very many - how will you go for parts - esp. if someone runs into it? Perhaps in a few more years, when they get down to $10-15k, will a 607 be considered a good buy. Is the bad rap deserved? All the indications are that the 607 continues the Peugeot tradition of making hugely underwhelming bigger cars - think 604, 605 & see what I mean.

    If you are spending your own money - rather than a combo of someone else's & the government - I'd be looking at a second hand car rather than new. All new cars are going to take a beating price wise when the tariffs drop. Looking at cars up to say 3-4 years old in that price range & the choice is huge.

    For $10-15K less than your budget a C5 V6 has to be the best value out there. I tried to find the review Bill Tuckey did on the C5, but it's gone. He gave it 4.5 stars out of 5, and would have been 5 out of 5 but for the vague steering. As a long distance car it would be perfect. Bland? That's a tough/rough critique of a car that's basically the same body & mechanicals as the 407, but with the Citroen magic suspension.

    Cheers,

    Barry.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    I wouldn't touch the 607 with a bargepole Lincoln; it's just not that good a car, and we know it will drop a fair bit. As flash as a rat with a Gold tooth!
    Nor the Volvo for the same reasons. The C5, well... trying to think as if I were older folks, I believe the C5 is the best of the bunch mentioned. It's just a good car, though a little unexciting.
    Get a diesel and it won't cost anything much to own. Won't be worth anything either in future, but it is a quality car and it won't depreciate any worse than any Aussie car would after all.
    Having said that, if your parents are the sort to enjoy driving at all, and they like a bigger car, they should have a hard look at an E39 5 series.
    Nar not just from a sports car perspective..... the old 5 is just the best thing going....... but in that price range the car will have some k's on it.
    Journo's are a dodgy bunch (except for Ray), but they got it right when they called the 5 series the best car in the world.
    The new 5 is so far inferior it doesn't matter. Says a lot about the old one.
    For the money a 525 would be the best they could hope for, followed by a 528, then 523. If you haven't driven one Lincoln do yourself a favour and surprise yourself with one of these things. The Sport (525 or 528) is nicer, but it's a tad firmer and more expensive .
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

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    523's dont cost much at all, nor 528's? But the update 525 and 530 cost a bit still I think?

    Warwick, what do you think about the W210 E-Class, Audi A6 or A4?

  10. #10
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    OK, just so we're really clear, fellas. I'm talking about a 2-3 year old 607 that has already taken it's biggest hit of depriciation. The car will be held onto for at least 5 years and probably longer, again negating the shocking resale of this car. My question in the first post was, with all of this in mind, does the 607 represent value for money now? There is no doubt it isn't if purchased new.

    My parents are semi-retired and they're not rev-heads like I am. A comfortable car that is quite luxurious to be in is a high priority, as well as the very stable, unmovable highway driving feel you get from a Volvo. As Mom says, "so when a truck goes by the car doesn't move".

    This is what the Volvo 850 did and they've owned a number of Volvos. They really do like them. The kids are all grown up now, so the S40's size isn't an issue.

    But I know my mom loves the mod-cons, and the 607 certainly delivers this in oodles. Considering they had the basic 2L 5 cylinder 850, performance is not a huge factor, nor dynamic performance. They fall into the style over substance category.

    Yes, I know a Subaru will last forever, the one they have is proving this, but the tinny feeling of the car has them looking back to Volvo.

    Yes, I know the C5 is a good car, but it's cabin is drab and in sedan form it's just plain boring. The Wagon is nice but it's almost too big for what they require nowadays. They don't move other people or large objects (such as a dog) around much anymore. A diesel is not on the cards.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Linc, looking at that list, depreciation & high maintenance costs arent high priority, am i right??

    If you are considering volvo's & other 'different' euro cars, what a about a 2000 onward saab 9-5???
    I can vouch for these cars being decent, i drove it recently over 300+k's in a day & it was great.
    Heaps of space, the boot is huge.

    Economy isn't the best, the low pressure turbo is excellent though, not just cause of the 'TURBO" factor but the way its just there for you if you need a sudden burst, O yeah i remembered you hate turbos dont you.


    Owell just another car to get you thinking or confused

  12. #12
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    FYI, a 607 is $72,500 new, plus on roads. They're be massive discounts on it, but not as much as you've said Barry. A 2002 would be around $50K, maybe fractionally less.

  13. #13
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purrr-geot
    Linc, looking at that list, depreciation & high maintenance costs arent high priority, am i right??

    If you are considering volvo's & other 'different' euro cars, what a about a 2000 onward saab 9-5???
    I can vouch for these cars being decent, i drove it recently over 300+k's in a day & it was great.
    Heaps of space, the boot is huge.

    Economy isn't the best, the low pressure turbo is excellent though, not just cause of the 'TURBO" factor but the way its just there for you if you need a sudden burst, O yeah i remembered you hate turbos dont you.


    Owell just another car to get you thinking or confused
    OK, by buying a car that is 2-3 years old, you're taking out the massive depreciation on these cars. When you own the car for over 5 years, you again negate alot of that resale problem.

    We're on a French car forum, you don't seriously think I'm going to be considering a BMW or Merc, do you? And I might want something a bit different, but c'mon, no Saabs please! I may as well suggest a Fairlane for them!

    Do you really think that a 607 has any higher maintenance costs than a 406 which is basically is? Same engine, same gearbox, on a stretched 406 platform...

  14. #14
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergetov
    If its country driving...

    Are there age constraints on the car? What about a Jaguar S-Type, or even a previous shape Mercedes E-Class. Both would be great for long trips.

    If your folks price-range is 50-60K there are a HUGE number of superb cars to chose from. Does resale matter? I guess not if your considering the 607, it will only continue to drop like a rock.

    Jaguar X-Type has not really taken off, but it has many great rivals...

    Volvo S60's are dirt cheap 2nd hand (talk to Warwick?). Lots of deals on new ones too (Aktiv pack). S40 strictly 2 seater for long trips?

    I gather your parents are after a slightly alternative car, rather than random BMW's/Merc's/Audi's in the price range?

    What about the new Nissan Maxima even? Not really very alternative... but hmm. The current Outback is pretty damn good too. I dunno, this price bracket is spoilt for choice. Perhaps have a think about why the 607 has depreciated so much tho?
    S-Type is an interesting suggestion. Although the mileage in that price range is a bit off-putting.

    Yep, S60 is there because of the deals on them.

    I'm not a fan of the Big 3 Germans, and we've never owned a German. Parents have had mostly Fords and Volvos as their cars of choice. I don't think my parents are "alternative"... I probably am more :p

    Nice suggestion on the Maxima too. Be nice if we had the Infiniti G45 here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    We're on a French car forum, you don't seriously think I'm going to be considering a BMW or Merc, do you? And I might want something a bit different, but c'mon, no Saabs please! I may as well suggest a Fairlane for them!
    Is that a joke?

    Your list only included 2 French cars anyway!

    If you wanted a nice bias opinion......

    Edit: Apologies, you just answered the above Sorry.

    Pity we don't get the G35 absolutely!

  16. #16
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergetov
    Is that a joke?

    Your list only included 2 French cars anyway!

    If you wanted a nice bias opinion......

    Edit: Apologies, you just answered the above Sorry.

    Pity we don't get the G35 absolutely!
    AAh, sorry the G35... it has some nice road presence, I must say.

    I had 3 French cars, thank you very much

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    You put the C5 on the list and then said you did'nt think it should be there, basicly

    where have you been looking at S-Types? They should'nt have too many k's to be in the range, thats if your parents can live wit the pre-update dash (which some prefer to the ye olde one anyway).

  18. #18
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergetov
    You put the C5 on the list and then said you did'nt think it should be there, basicly

    where have you been looking at S-Types? They should'nt have too many k's to be in the range, thats if your parents can live wit the pre-update dash (which some prefer to the ye olde one anyway).
    Carsales.

    Re: C5, I'll be suggesting it, I just think the 607 has a better interior...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    FYI, a 607 is $72,500 new, plus on roads. They're be massive discounts on it, but not as much as you've said Barry. A 2002 would be around $50K, maybe fractionally less.
    I wasn't making that number up; that's what I was quoted for a 607 with 4000 on the clock 18 months ago, and I'm certain they would have gone lower.

    There's one at the same place (a well known dealer in Parramatta), 2003 with 8000kms for $64990 & I'll bet they will take much less.

    Take a look at what a 2004 model is worth according to drive.com.au, which I think is Glass's guide:

    4D SEDAN, 2004, 2.9 lt, 4 SP SEQUENTIAL AUTO
    Average km's travelled 9,000
    Price when new $79900
    View Car Specifications Estimated Valuations:
    $53460-65340 private sale
    $50200-59400 trade in value
    $68300-81960 dealer price

    & a 2002 is:

    4D SEDAN, 2002, 2.9 lt, 4 SP SEQUENTIAL AUTO
    Average km's travelled 33,000
    Price when new $79990
    View Car Specifications Estimated Valuations:
    $45810-55990 private sale
    $43000-50900 trade in value
    $58500-70200 dealer price

    Based on this one could expect to get a 2004 one for your $50k.

    I'll admit I am a ratbag when it comes to buying cars, but here's what I would expect to pay for a 2 year old 607. Firstly, I'd depreciate from a heavily discounted price, say $62k purchase price. Take the standard 22.5% depreciation per year, this makes it roughly $37500, then knock off another $5-6000 because it's a 607. So, I think around $32k is the right price.

    Having said all of that I still wouldn't buy one because of the orphan factor, but at that price it would be an OK car. Most of the (severe) criticism of the 607 was related to it's price; at half the price it's not too bad.

    Cheers,

    Barry.

  20. #20
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Thanks Barry. Good information there!

    And yes, when the car is at least 50% less after two years, there isn't much more it can do in the next 5 years. The orphan factor is an issue, no doubt at all.

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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    ....what about the honda euro......I think the new maxima is quite nice and "almost" carries a touch of french style 2.....there is a lot of cars 2 choose from....I d be picking the c5 out of the lot...but really, they should be looking at an XM or an immaculate 604 ( so that they are still around when we get their age).....keep the rest of the money for servicing, fuel etc etc



    cheers


    dino

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    Have they driven a Laguna?

    They are a great cruisey car with a very refined ride/seats/interior for long country drives.

    For the money your talking about you could get a new TOTL Laguna (with warranty and Road Assist I think).

    I think the Renault dealer would be very negotiable with a Laguna, as sales have been struggling. Pity as they are still a very competitive car in most respects, and the wagon is probably the best looking wagon in it's segment IMHO...wink2:

  23. #23
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    ....what about the honda euro......I think the new maxima is quite nice and "almost" carries a touch of french style 2.....there is a lot of cars 2 choose from....I d be picking the c5 out of the lot...but really, they should be looking at an XM or an immaculate 604 ( so that they are still around when we get their age).....keep the rest of the money for servicing, fuel etc etc



    cheers


    dino
    Thanks Dino, yeah, I forgot to mention the Accord Euro, that'll be on the list too, but the parents don't really like Hondas... they'll look at them regardless.

    Richard, a 2nd hand Laguna which has dropped in price might be good value, bt I feel that it hasn't been on the market long enough to really depreciate enough to make it worth buying. Buying it new should give you a good deal but it'll still have some more depreciation to go.

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    A Volvo S40 will give you a pretty harsh ride (if for no other reason than it has the shortest wheel base of the lot) and if long distance cruising is an issue would be a factor. All current Volvo's in fact are on the harsher side of ride...

    I can't accept Wariwck's comment that a C5 Hdi would be worthless at trade in because Deisels have tradtionally held their value a little better in both Pug and Cit and as for bland... I think a Pug 607 is the king of bland.

    I'm biased having a C5 Hdi in the family and I think they are a superb car overall and outstanding value for money.... In five years they with high k's I know which of all the list will be running cheaper and more reliably

    The salient point is however... semi retired... love driving... lot's of country cruising... and $50k to spend... let them buy what they like.. what apeals to them... let them drive all the options and choose which one makes them feel good behind the wheel... they'e earnt it I'm sure!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Have they driven a Laguna?

    They are a great cruisey car with a very refined ride/seats/interior for long country drives.

    For the money your talking about you could get a new TOTL Laguna (with warranty and Road Assist I think).

    and the wagon is probably the best looking wagon in it's segment IMHO...wink2:
    I agree... i was a bit disappointed to not see this one on the list. I think the laguna is one of the best looking medium-large cars on the market.

    i'd have one!

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