Warped rotors
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Thread: Warped rotors

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Warped rotors

    Its been approx. about 1500km i have had the new rotors along with ebc greens and my left front has warped.

    I spoke to autospeed which was the place i bought them from so they had some one ring me up today.

    The fellow asks me if i used some special allingment tool to put the rotors on i cant remember the name of the tool, and I said no, he then said thats most likely what caused the rotor to warp and give it high and low spots.

    Now can some please tell what is this tool because i have neaver heard of allinging and balancing a rotor before puuting it on, i just assuemed the rotor will be balanced when purchased

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    Any help will be great

    Cheers

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    I would agree with you. I have never heard of aligning & balancing rotors to the car. Sounds a bit strange to me.
    The rotor should be balanced from the factory, but if it weren’t, I wouldn’t think the amount they would be out would not allow the disk to become warped. As far as alignment, the only possibility I can think of is that the disk is not sitting flat against the hub, possibly a bit of garbage in behind. If this is not the case I would take a wild guess that the disk was faulty, ie. the steel grain was wrong & when heated the disk warped or you managed to get them a little too hot .
    But some of the other guy’s here might know more.

    Will

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    Thanks for the help guys the car will be goin in on monday to them to get checked out.

    So wil wait and see

    Most likely they will jus give them a machine and send me on my way

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    Alligning maybe for when they grind em off the car there would definately be allignment required there. What the tool is called? I get back to you! As for balance well I guess if you had the wheel balanced on the car that would bring balance to the assembly. But the rotors on there own??

    Als

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    Well the front wheels have been balanced and alingment about 2 days before the brakes went on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    I think you'll find most Bob Jane T-Marts can do on car balancing of wheels... and this will be the easiest (and cheapest) way to resolve any inbalance due to the rotor. It will also provide you with future proof of any mis-alignment.
    From my experiences, BJTM couldn't balance a brick on a driveway!
    Craig K
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    I've had EBC greens warp discs before on my Nissan, get the discs machined (on or off car OK) and they will be fine, but may warp again in the future with the EBCs. They also get hotspots marks and black spots of pad material prior to warping.

    I changed to a different pad and its been all good since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 750sport
    I've had EBC greens warp discs before on my Nissan, get the discs machined (on or off car OK) and they will be fine.
    Speak with the dealers/manufacturer as to whether the discs can be machined, as its been said a few times that the RSC discs cannot be machined.

    I've seen a couple of tech notes from Renault & apparently the pressue of the machining can cause problems with the ABS sensors & hence you should NEVER do it...

    Though cant speak for all makers & non-ABS!

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    intersting idea on "non-machinable" rotors.
    If the manufacturer specifies minimum thickness of the rotor it should be machinable. I dont understand how ABS has anything to do with it? (apart from economics of selling rotors)

    GTi6 had its discs machined with out any probs. As soon as the EBC's V4 pads were used for few weeks of hard driving the rotors had the residue vibrations (warped rotor feel) . Apparently EBC has changed the resin since... maybe. Aversion remains. No probs with bendix pads. Just more dirty on the alloy wheels.
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  10. #10
    farmerdave
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    [QUOTE=immy s16]The fellow asks me if i used some special allingment tool to put the rotors on i cant remember the name of the tool, and I said no, he then said thats most likely what caused the rotor to warp and give it high and low spots.
    Now can some please tell what is this tool because i have neaver heard of allinging and balancing a rotor before puuting it on, i just assuemed the rotor will be balanced when purchased
    [QUOTE]

    Dial gauge maybe? -To check for runout in the disk. 'tis important.
    Farmerdave

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    Dial guage sounds familliar but i could be mistaken

    I have no problem in getting the rotor machined, my issue is why has the rotor warped with out even been abused by hard driving or braking.

    And if it is a manufacturing default i dont really want to get my rotors machined every 2 months, in that case il be up rotor in about 6 months, my standard pug rotor lasted me 4 years.

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    A dial gauge is what's normally used to check the amount of run out when it plays up not something you use when you fit them; that's unless you have suspicions they are faulty in the first place and need to confirm this.

    Alan S
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    Quote Originally Posted by immy s16
    Dial guage sounds familliar but i could be mistaken

    I have no problem in getting the rotor machined, my issue is why has the rotor warped with out even been abused by hard driving or braking.

    And if it is a manufacturing default i dont really want to get my rotors machined every 2 months, in that case il be up rotor in about 6 months, my standard pug rotor lasted me 4 years.
    Let's look at an analogue here!! If it is permissible for rotors to wear, by irregular application of an abrasive (the disc pads!), why is it not permissible to skim them within wear tolerances using a carefully controlled machining process?

    You can't stop them wearing, but they still work!

    Maybe skimming leaves a different surface finish from pad wear? But you could finish the skim with a pad application to give a surface "polish".

    Does this seem sensible to anyone? I reckon there's some mystique lurking here. And maybe some nonsense. But I'm not quite knowledgable enough.

    My R8 has original rotors after 300,000 km. Bit thin, but OK! So I've no experience in skimming rotors, just replacing them on the 306.

    Cheers

    JohnW

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    As Alan said, a dial gauge shouldn't have been necessary in ordinary fitment...

    This all sounds like a put-off tactic, a means of avoiding a warranty claim. Did they say you should fit them using a dial gauge when you bought them? I'll bet they didn't, and I can assure you it's not standard practice.

    Keeping the surfaces clean where they mate up, yes, that's important, but nothing else.

    In fact, there's no kickback of the pad to stop the pads wearing out if you don't have some tiny amount of runout.

    As for alignment, that's totally out of the picture. Balance... well, if your discs are at melting point, that might count a little...

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    am i missing something here

    tell me someone how, if a disc is running out is it corrected ?

    i have never had to use anything to ensure a disc is running true as i clean everything before fitting

    i have never seen anything used to correct a disc form running out as i have never heard of the need for it

    i have used a dial indicator to measure run out on them on used discs but never have i used one to check when fitting them

    i'll admit i have only ever changed discs on older pugs as the 306 is still running with it's discs that are still near as good as the day i bought it and original pads
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  16. #16
    farmerdave
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    Yep, clean the surfaces etc, but read the friendly instructions too....
    EBC pads have a sheet packed with them.....
    "take great care to clean mounting hubs before fitting new rotors and CHECK DISC RUNOUT (their emphasis) with a dial gauge before use".

    It is NOT relevant or helpful that others don't or have never used a dial gauge to check rotor runout. EBC SPECIFY a dial gauge check for rotors used with their product. I guess they have some experience with their brake compounds.

    Pugrambo, if a disc is running out and the hub/disc surfaces are clean then it can only be corrected by machining the rotor on the car- but it suggests further investigation.

    Farmerdave

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW
    Let's look at an analogue here!! If it is permissible for rotors to wear, by irregular application of an abrasive (the disc pads!), why is it not permissible to skim them within wear tolerances using a carefully controlled machining process?
    You can't stop them wearing, but they still work!
    Maybe skimming leaves a different surface finish from pad wear? But you could finish the skim with a pad application to give a surface "polish".
    Does this seem sensible to anyone? I reckon there's some mystique lurking here. And maybe some nonsense. But I'm not quite knowledgable enough.
    The note states you cannot re-surface discs, especially those with ABS & "Instrumented Bearings", to ensure there's no swarf from the discs contacting the magnetic strip, as it would give incorrect wheel speed...

    So its theoretically possible, just high risk & need to make sure that swarf dont get on some strip somewhere... :|

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerdave
    EBC pads have a sheet packed with them.....
    "take great care to clean mounting hubs before fitting new rotors and CHECK DISC RUNOUT (their emphasis) with a dial gauge before use".
    I must admit after fitting around 1000 sets of discs in my short time on this planet, I don't think I would take a second look at a little sheet of paper in the box...

    Perhaps they should print it on the box or better still on the disc, next to the minimum thickness...

    As has been said by many, if all was well prior to the disc change simply clean the hub surface, check the two surfaces for cleanliness and fit the bloody thing...

    Sounds alot like an arse covering excercise (warranty wise) to me...

    If you check it with a dial indicator and its warped, do you then take it back and they throw simply it away (can't be machined remember) and give you a new one?

    I would certainly expect that the machines that machine the discs at the factory are more accurate than any run of the mill dial indicator.

    I suppose they would try and blame it on the hub or something if you tried to make a claim, but if all was well with the old discs, this wouldn't wash...

    I don't suppose you kept the old discs to put on for comparison if they take this route with your warranty claim??

    Good luck, I'd be interested to see how you go...

    P.S - dont be afraid to contact EBC directly if you get shafted..

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno



    Sounds alot like an arse covering excercise (warranty wise) to me...





    I don't suppose you kept the old discs to put on for comparison if they take this route with your warranty claim??

    Good luck, I'd be interested to see how you go...

    P.S - dont be afraid to contact EBC directly if you get shafted..

    It sure does sound like an arse covering excercise to me, the old discs just got throw out about 2 weeks ago.

    I was speaking to another mate which had similiar pronlems, and they blamed ebc pads been to harsh for the disc.

    Guess il find out on Monday as to what they storie is with me

  20. #20
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    Ok had it all checked out this morning and after about 2 hours off them testing the car found out it was a worn out ball joint.

    The owner of fthe brake place said he thought it was the rotor as well, he tested the rotors and all is fine no signs of warping.

    Guess its off to teh mechanic to get a new ball joint.

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    I can't help feeling that we will hear about this again - does anyone else agree? Sounds like maybe another fob-off, but you never know.

    Why did you suspect in the first place that a rotor was warped? If the brake pedal was pulsating when you apply the brake then invariably it will be a rotor problem. Remember it could be front or rear rotors.

    But if the steering wheel was shaking under braking it may be something else - lumpy tyre, out-of-balance wheel/tyre, bad alignment, maybe even a disc rotor. A worn ball-joint will usually rear it's ugly head when you drive over a bump in the road - a quick steering wobble for a few seconds, then Ok again until the next bump. Maybe the car will make a little "sidestep" if the ball joint is badly worn.

    My experience is that when a brake pedal pulsates you cant measure it even with a dial gauge - it doesnt take much "runout" on the rotors to amplify the movement at the brake pedal. In fact a small variation in thickness of the disc is more likely to cause pedal pulsation (ie, by forcing the pads apart).

    A while ago I fitted new front disc rotors & pads (not to my Renault - hopefully that won't need it for a few years). I bought "quality" DBA rotors and "top quality" Bendix Ulimate pads. After I had bought them, the little note in the DBA box advised to expect vibration after 5000 kms due to the poor design of the Falcon hubs (funny - the originals did 150,000 without vibes) and the little note in the Bendix pad box told me these were "aggressive" pads and will wear the discs out quicker. Neither of these suppliers advertise these facts before they sell them. To give them credit where credit is due - both claims were correct!
    Unfortunately, its a fact of life - modern high performance brakes use "soft" discs and "hard" pads to achieve good braking performance. They just don't last as long as they did in the "good old days". This is all a bit off subject - I just wanted to say what I thought of the "little notes in the boxes"!

    All food for thought!

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Amazing!

    Is this really the modern world in which we live?



    For my part, I'm happy with the 504 discs and the cheap metallic Cortina/Holden/Jaguar pads I can get from Super Cheap and file the holes so they fit...

  23. #23
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    Yes

    but now i got to battel with the mob who put the new ball joiints in about 2 weeks after the brakes went on

    Car will be goin in next monday to get checked out

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    immy

    How did it go?

    I think I'm experiencing the same problem.

    george

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    George

    All is good jus picked up the car this afternoon, and was in a rush so didnt have time to get the full explanation from them.

    From what i gathered the ball joint worked itself loose, so they replaced the ball joint, and sice they had the car over night they gave me a loan car and also flushed my gear box oil ( I had to pay for the oil).

    But im happy now and the car is handling superbly.

    what sort of symptons you having.

    Cheers

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