Time for a replacement, wouldn't mind some opinions...
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    Default Time for a replacement, wouldn't mind some opinions...

    Well, I'm in a new job now, while I'm at uni, and with the driving I do with work, plus commuting there and back, I'm doing about 5x as many kms as I used to. Plus, I'll probably be here for the next 5 years, so I'm looking at buying something around the end of this year, that'll last me a while. The big clincher at the moment is that I may need something that drives all wheels - or at least has a bit of clearance. Also, I might be able to get away without it - time will tell. (Working as an ag valuer for anyone who cares )

    Basically, I'm probably looking at spending $15-20k, and want something at the oldest - 97/98. I do like the idea of something fairly luxurious - but there's a clincher. It has to be pretty darn reliable. I'll be doing 200km a week commuting, plus another couple of hundred kms a week out and about. Occaisonal 1000km round trips, that sort of thing, so it can't break on me (which is kinda leaning me away from another frog ) I'll have an automatic 6, but not a 4 cylinder auto. Cruise control, decent seats, and a good ride are probably the main factors.

    If its got to be 4WD/AWD, I'll probably look at outbacks and libertys, but I'd rather not.

    The other options were maybe a 406 sedan? They seem to be pretty good value, with a few V6s coming in under $20k. I assume they'd be fairly reliable. I think there is a private ad on carsales for a green SV for $17k or so. Was thinking about a diesel, but considering all my driving is paid for, fuel economy isnt really a huge issue. Obviously I'd retain more of my rebate/km, but I'd rather have something with a bit more poke.

    Xantia exlusive v6? Seems like amazing value for money, but not all that sure about the reliability of the things. Would love to hear from a few owners. I suppose adjustable height would be very, very handy for what I'd be doing. What sort of clearance do they manage at their highest?

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    Any other suggestions/opinions? Having never really bought a *sensible* car, I'm a wee bit out of my depth.

    Cheers,
    Nick
    Last edited by nchandler; 27th September 2004 at 04:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Simon's Avatar
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    Sounds like you would be missing out by excluding Foresters/Outbacks/Liberty's. About the only thing missing from them is your six cylinder requirement, but they would be worthwhile taking for a spin. They seem to have reliability in spades, aren't too bad to drive even if a bit plasticky inside (just like a proper Frenchie!). I reckon it would make a perfect valuers vehicle!

    The bonus with the Pug is that you could pick a diesel, but for no valuer needs to get caught out with the low slung Euro beast crossing a paddock to check out a hot comparable sale, that only costs time and money!

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    What happened to Josephs BX that you were looking at?

    I wouldn't discount the Outback/Liberty/Forester option.

    What about an 850 Cross Country?

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    What happened to Josephs BX that you were looking at?

    I wouldn't discount the Outback/Liberty/Forester option.

    What about an 850 Cross Country?
    850 Cross Country is probably a little out of my price range.

    I'm not discounting the Suby option, just would prefer something with a little more character.

    As for Joe's BX - I ended up deciding that there wasn't any point buying another cheap car, that is despite being a great car, going to cause me hassle to own, and I'm probably going to sell again in <12 months. Now, I figure bugger it, spend 2-3 times as much as I was planning, and get something worth keeping, thats going to give trouble free mileage.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default A 406

    I purchased a 97 406 about 18 months ago.

    Proved to be very reliable, comfortable, quick on open road and handles well (ask the 180 driver who could not keep up on Nanup Bailingup Road!).

    Only parts required in this time are Two windsceen wiper blades!

    I also have a 206GTI for fun.

    We have done country family campiong trips in 406 and would recommend one to you.

    My brother has a Subaru Outback. It has not been trouble free as most would have you believe and has the worst headlights he has ever driven with.

    He prefers his Citroen Xsara for driving pleasure too.

    If possible Id go for the 406.

    Graeme

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! matt205's Avatar
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    406 HDi Wagon. Amazing fuel economy and will run forever.
    Regards,
    Matt
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  7. #7
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    How about a suzuki vitara v6 they are about 30k ney second should be alot cheaper

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Jack Z's Avatar
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    Have a look at a Volvo 850 Wagon. In SE spec you get all the bells and whistles and if you look hard enough will find a well maintained one owner with around 100k for mid teens $$$

    Ours had done 270k and in that time all it needed was a main oil seal (common problem) a set of front disc rotors (it is FWD after all), front sway bar drag links a set of shocks, a catalytic converter and general servicing.

    Engine and drive train were flawless, it was reaosnable economical, had all the mod cons, went quite well and whilst I would have prefered a French wagon for the job it did and the money it cost (we bought it with 100k on the clock) it was a gem.

    Let us know what you decide (and check Subaru parts prices before making a decision they make French spare parts look cheap!)
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt205
    406 HDi Wagon. Amazing fuel economy and will run forever.
    ill second that, and there is one in the For sale section too... - Chris
    ... ptui!

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    HDi's are a bit expensive... $25-30k. The cheaper diesels are still pricey. Fuel economy isn't really that much of an issue. Even though a 406 diesel would probably burn half as much as a Xantia v6, or any of the other 6s I'd think about, my kms are all paid for, so I'd rather something quickish (I'm making a big step up in the car maturity stakes here, but not that bigger step! )

    850s are getting on a bit. V70/S70s are available in my range, and I'd definitely look at one. Had an S70SE for a while in the family, which was a nice car. Not a huge fan of that engine though, it'd be nice in the low-boost turbo, but insurance kills that. Hah, back into a volvo, jeeebus...

    Not sure how I'd go finding a Xantia V6 Exclusive, but they seem to represent great value for $20k or so. The ground clearance is a huge bonus too.

  11. #11
    Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by nchandler
    It has to be pretty darn reliable. I'll be doing 200km a week commuting, plus another couple of hundred kms a week out and about. Occaisonal 1000km round trips, that sort of thing, so it can't break on me (which is kinda leaning me away from another frog )
    It always surprises me when I read this sort of thing in here.

    Cal.
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  12. #12
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    My suggestion would be to hang onto what you have for the moment and find out what sort of terrain you will be traversing over. If you do a lot of country k’s over rutted dirt roads with paddock bashing, I reckon many Euro cars would end up hammered in pretty short time, such like old Pug 505’s with alloy wheels which all went out of round with continual dirt road use. Then again the AUS product probably fares no better. A Falcon with country pack I had to use once, used for relatively easy crossing of a paddock, I wondered why it was running so hot on the way back to base. Grass seeds had packed between the “country pack” insect screen and the radiator.

    If you are paddock bashing the low (and relatively thin steel) sumps of many modern cars seem pretty vulnerable. Hence my suggestion of a Surbaru Forester or the like which has a slightly raised ride height. So before you take the plunge either way it may be an idea to find out what work you will predominantly end up doing, full pastoral stuff which requires something heavier duty or just tootling round a rural township, in which case a Euro luxo cruiser may be the way to go.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! dave from bendigo's Avatar
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    you should consider a forester gt they are a great car with more power than a normal four due to the turbo- something like this car that has only 100,000 kays has luxury pack and is 20k


    These are it's options-
    16in Alloy Wheels

    4 Speaker Stereo

    Adjustable Steering Col. - Tilt & Reach

    Airbags - Driver & Passenger (Dual)

    Airbags - Side For Front Occupants

    Abs (Antilock Brakes)

    Air Conditioning

    Body Coloured Bumpers

    Central Locking - Remote/Keyless

    Cd Player

    Disc Brakes Front Ventilated

    Disc Brakes Rear Solid

    Engine Immobiliser

    Fog Lamps

    Independent Rear Suspension

    Intermittent Wipers

    Leather Gear Knob

    Leather Hand Brake Lever

    Leather Steering Wheel

    Leather Trim

    Power Door Mirrors

    Power Windows - Front & Rear

    Passenger Airbag

    Power Steering

    Remote Fuel Lid Release

    Roof Rails

    Suspension - Auto Levelling

    Sunroof

    Tacho
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Time for a replacement, wouldn't mind some opinions...-forester.jpg  
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  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    All I can say is drive the Xantia.... But do make sure you punch it into a few corners hard. The roll limited suspension is so bloody good you don't even realise it's there.

    If you can find a CT turbo Activa (zero roll) suspension, that would be the top of my shopping list given your price range. Outright speed isn't everything, the torque of these low blow turbo's is great. I wouldn't sell my CX turbo (that has a low pressure turbo) for any $$$$... Then again it's probably considerably faster than both the V6 and CT turbo Xantias

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  15. #15
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Shane im surprised that your suggesting a xantia....

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    Shane im surprised that your suggesting a xantia....
    What else would I suggest

    CX's and DS's are all at least 30years old, no matter how tough & reliable they are he's still not going to be able to drive one for years with little or no maitenance. Sure enthusiests that do there own work can run them for years and they cost bugger all to run. If you were paying 'specialists' to upkeep them I imagine they could cost a bloody fortune.

    Leave the oldies for someone that wants one and enjoys driving them. If he'd jumped on saying "I want an old classic car that'll do xxxxxxxxx easily (ie: everything he's listed above)". There no doubt I would have suggested a CX simply 'cos there so bloody tough. Most of them are even still running around with there original ball joints and suspension bushes in them. The problem with this There so bloody worn there almost dangerous !!! And yet the suspension design and layout is so exceptional the cars still drives so well you wouldn't know. Chuck a couple of ball joints and bushes in the front end and there good for another couple of hundred thousand kms.

    eg: This is my CX that has done 130,000miles (they would have been very hard miles as 103,000 of them were in the UK)





    This car still drives extremely well even with this wear present.

    What else is there in his price range ?? Poogoes ?? Why pay more for the same product with crappy suspension under it

    Actually I've heard those Suburu Liberty wagons are quite good and reliable, but gee's you only live once, why would you want to own something so bloody boring

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  17. #17
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    Geez, I reckon the Xantia V6 would have to be a great package for comfort over long country miles. Yeah! Go the Xantia, Nick!

    Why the issue about reliability, BTW? No one's made an unreliable car for years...

    Stuey

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    Geez, I reckon the Xantia V6 would have to be a great package for comfort over long country miles. Yeah! Go the Xantia, Nick!

    Why the issue about reliability, BTW? No one's made an unreliable car for years...

    Stuey
    Try telling that to some of the people who've bought land/range rovers in the last 5 years!

    Haha.

    At the moment, its looking like its going to be a V70. For $20-22k, I can get something 98-99, 100-150,000kms, with all the bits, that'll serve the purpose. I love the Xantia, and its a definite consideration.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    200od km's a week isnt exactly a lot of work.. sorry.. even 400od km's should be an issue for any car you decide to buy..

    Just get something with the biggest waranty possible and dont wory about it

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nchandler
    Try telling that to some of the people who've bought land/range rovers in the last 5 years!
    OK! I will then! <Stuey goes out into the street, looking for Land Rovers>

  21. #21
    rek
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    Just get something with the biggest waranty possible and dont wory about it
    Korean it is then!
    Peter
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  22. #22
    nJm
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    I was helping someone out in a similar position a while ago. The Volvo V70 2.5 (or 2.4?) 20v won in the end. Superbly comfortable, amazingly reliable, long service intervals (15,000 and cam belt changes every 120,000km). Parts are cheaper than servicing our Honda Accord. They are fairly decent to drive, and I can't think of many other things in that price range that would suit long stints on the highways. A friend of mine had a 1997 V70 2.5 SE. They took it to the northern territory, and it also towed a 1.5 tonne trailer from Melbourne to sydney. They even look ok if you tint the windows.

    406 - quite reliable for a modern froggy. Has far more issues than the swedish box and more expensive parts. Also, don't know if I could live with the auto in a 406.

    Foresters are good if you want a mini SUV. I personally don't like them, but I respect them for being good at what they were designed for. Subies are also expensive to run. A relative's 1998 Outback 2.5 blew a headgasket when the radiator was hit by a rock, and it cost them $2.5k to get fixed.
    Nick
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  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I still say go the Xantia CT Turbo Activa, even over the V6 version of the same car. I remember hearing rave reviews about it's manual gearbox. Apparantly it has roller bearings on the 1/2nd gears and is one of the best gearboxs the tester had ever used.

    I think the V6's were only sold with god awful slugomatics in them

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    Nick - it looks like the V/S 70 is the go. Nothing comes close for value for money, and they can look quite neat in white or silver.

    Shane - turbo is a no go. Don't want to fork out for the insurance. And whilst its ridiculous that a low-boost setup like the CT attracts huge premiums, there's not much I can do about it.

    On the Subaru thing - I've driven a forester for a good 5 hours, and really didn't like it. At all. Having never driven a liberty (well only an old one), or an outback, I'd have to ask the question - are they anythnig like the forester? I hope not.

    Nick

    PS = apologies for typos, I'm on a horrible keyboard.

  25. #25
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Well, seeing as it's open slather, I'll put my vote in for a 406 V6 then - the auto is not that bad, and the engine is superb, IMHO.

    In my experience it's probably a little more maintenance free than a Xantia would be.

    My only hope is that you will actually drive these cars before making a decision, instead of just listening to us talk about them
    Regards,

    Simon

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