Rollcages?
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Thread: Rollcages?

  1. #1
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Default Rollcages?

    Hey,

    I have some questions about getting a rollcage installed!

    1. How much would a roll cage cost for a 205GTI/505/BX?
    2. Are they legal for street use-this car would be driven everyday?
    3. Do they improve the crash safety of a car dramatically-which areas of the car would the protect the most?

    Thanks heaps froggers!

    Cyas Stalled

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    A CAMS certified cage will vary from model to model, and will vary on how many points and what extras you will want.
    I saved some money by stripping the interior myself, and made sure there was a difference in the cost of, either way. For a genuine CAMS approved 4-point Bond Roll Bars cage fitted with 4 point harness eyelets, I paid $1600, in a 306 hatch.
    Expect this to vary from place to place though. Expect the boys in blue to hassle reguardles of road legality, but check with your RTA first. I would also recommend consulting an engineer first, and highly recommend an engineers certificate.
    I looked at the chassis stiffening aspect of a cage rather than the safety side of things. Good luck.
    _ Chris.
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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Cool, thanks for that!

    Anyone know some info on roll cages especially the safety aspect of them?

    Cyas Stalled
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Unless the rules have changed, CAMS requires a minimum of 6 point cage.
    The main hoop requires an X strutcture, and a diagonal bar above drivers head. They can no longer be made from alloy.
    For club level speed events cages are not required.

    Street use:
    It must be engineerd. Metal parts around the passanger compartment must be padded. due to closer then standard location to driver/passangers cages can be difficult to engineer. Also entry and exit from the car must not be impeeded for any occupants.

    I would talk to Bond Roll Bars at Chester Hill and get the details from the professionals.

    As a guide, to supply a 1/2 cage with belt bar (4 point) for a swift it cost me $650, another ~$250 to fit (take that installation option !). Painting /powedercoating extra.
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    For club level speed events cages are not required
    So does that mean that for things like the Mattara hillclimb or other NSW champ events a Non-CAMS cage could be fitted instead?? ie 4 point alloy??

    I take it the Supersprints are a club level speed event not full on speed event??

    Thanks Jono
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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! matt205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crosspug
    So does that mean that for things like the Mattara hillclimb or other NSW champ events a Non-CAMS cage could be fitted instead?? ie 4 point alloy??

    I take it the Supersprints are a club level speed event not full on speed event??

    Thanks Jono
    Basically any event where you are not directly racing other cars does not require a cage, except rallies of course. I ran my bog standard road going 205 GTi in the 1995 NSW Hillclimb championship, no roll cage.

    I would imagine a non-cams approved alloy cage would be AOK. That said any car with a current CAMS logbook with and alloy cage is legal, PeterT has one, you just can't fit them anymore. This makes PT's car and it's logbook quite a saleable item IMO.
    Regards,
    Matt
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    By speed events I meant events where L2S licence only is required. Like Matt said where you are not racing other cars. Club racing like Historics or Improved Production racing requires CAMS logbook and fully compliant cage.

    CAMS will not allow new alloy cages, any vehicle already fitted has the retrospective rule privilage. Like Peter's. (not like he needs permission for the supersprints anyhow).

    What sort of cage you fit is totaly upto you. Its your health after all. I feel a LOT safer having my 4 point cage purely for the rollover protection and a point where to mount the harness at correct angle.
    .
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    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    The question was purely planning for the future.

    The car that is my best option for a future good motorsport base is certainly NOT the safest thing on the planet and safety and handling would be a priority. So a cage sounds the deal.

    I take it alloy cages are lighter, and I daresay much cheaper now that they aren't as widely used.

    Thanks for the Info

    Jono
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crosspug
    I take it alloy cages are lighter, and I daresay much cheaper now that they aren't as widely used.

    Jono
    Al. is lighter, but not cheaper as it's more difficult to weld and more expensive to buy.

    A cage in a 205 also increases torsional rigidity, improving handling.

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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Speed events like Hillclimbs and Sprints do not require a cage, but if you do fit one now it will have to meet the minimum standard, being a six point cage with a diagonal across the rear stays or roll bar itself. (closed cars)

    In cars with more than two seats the law states the back seat (seat belts as well)is removed and the car be plated a two seater for registration purposes.
    Strictly, the ADRs do not allow harnesses in newer cars (after '75?) as they state the front seats must have inertia reel belts. There are plenty of cars that do have the harnesses only, but this is not strictly correct even if it has a Mod Plate. The easy way out is to leave your standard belts in and use a clip in harness at events.

    Also as Tekkie said, the bars will have to be padded in areas where you might possibly hit them. I think side impact bars on a circuit car are a must. Cars rarely roll, but they do get T boned a lot. I was a scrutineer at hundreds of events over 12 years and saw a lot of accidents, only one where a driver died, and the rest only had very minor injuries to the driver.

    The main hoop would be either 44.45mm X2.5 or 50 X 2mm, with the other components being 38 X 2.5 or 40 X 2mm using cold drawn steel tube.

    I admit the 26 metres of tube in my BMW has probably added 40Kg, the only problem I will have now will be trying to stop my brain sloshing into front of my skull.
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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Hey,

    thanks everyone for your replies!

    Could i have an example (picture) of a 4 and 6 point roll cage to get an idea of what is involved?

    Do they improve crash safety on the streets?

    Thanks heaps people!

    Cyas Stalled
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    There's a picture of mine in this post:

    205 GTi Race Car

    Best thiing to do is take a bare shell to Bond roll bars and get them to weld it in, then respray the inside yourself. You'll save a bit on removal/fitting costs.

    Then go to a CAMS approved engineer for a blue slip.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  13. #13
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    There's a picture of mine in this post:

    205 GTi Race Car

    Best thiing to do is take a bare shell to Bond roll bars and get them to weld it in, then respray the inside yourself. You'll save a bit on removal/fitting costs.

    Then go to a CAMS approved engineer for a blue slip.
    Thanks for that!

    How many "points" does your rollcage have in the 205 GTI?

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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    http://www.ompracing.it/pdf/en/rollbar.pdf

    this will give you an idea whats available. Btw, OMP does ship to australia but it is cheaper to get it locally made.

    and here is the step by step sotry of fitting the 10 point cage
    http://www.205gtidrivers.com/articles/t-ompcage.html


    1/2 cage 4 point= main hoop bolted to floor, and two diagonal rear bars mounted on the floor.

    1/2 cage 6 point. As above but with additional mounting on the B pillars near the seat belt mounting points.

    full 6 point cage. = as 4 point but with front bars mounted near foot wells of driver and passanger

    full 10 point. = as 1/2 cage 6 point, with front bars mounted in foot well and on the front A pillars
    .
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  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    does "cromoly" constitute an alloy.

    Does anyone know if the law / RTA in SA still says you cannot have any cage structure forward of the driver... i might have to pop down to regency one day and quiz them.


    PeterT, does your roll cage mount to the top of the rear shock towers or just at some reinforced point of the shell.
    Last edited by XsaraVTS; 23rd September 2004 at 02:31 AM.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Cages can be made of Chrome Moly 4130 in thinner tube dimensions, but would have to be engineer certified to be up to the strength required by CAMS. Certainly much more expensive, and must be Tig welded, and I believe stress relieved after this. More V8 Super car territory than ours. Reasonable serious Moly cage $4000.


    Certainly easier and cheaper to buy someone elses race car, and actually be driving it, instead of building yours.
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    Cal
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    Certainly not in my book. Not that mine is a race car (serious club car), but I am a big fan of buying other peoples money pits. Why not just pick up from where they started, sort it out and save $1000's?

    Cal.
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    I have built and modified many cars, and have not yet bought a pre done rocket or classic. But through experience it justs seems to me the time spent working on it, enjoyable as it is, would be better spent actually driving it.
    My BMW about 2500hrs. The Renault 4CV about 1800Hrs. That is an awful lot of weekends and nights under a bonnet, and not on a track. I don't believe I am retarded, I just don't learn very quickly.

    I am with Cal, buy it at a good level and add to it along the way. It is a race car, you already know it has been thrashed lovingly.
    A friend just bought a modded BMW 2002 that had $70 000 spent on it, for a third of that. The previous owner had only done one event in it in six years.
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    Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore
    A friend just bought a modded BMW 2002 that had $70 000 spent on it, for a third of that. The previous owner had only done one event in it in six years.
    Woh I'd like to see that! Like I would like to see yours on the bloody track.

    Cal.
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    It did run for 5 secs yesterday, and I did know I had an oil relief problem, unfortunately the relief valve did not find its' way open and so the relief point became the filter that sprayed about 2L of oil on the floor in 2 secs.

    To remove the sump to get to the pump, I will have to remove the motor or the crossmember, so yes, the crossmember is coming out.
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  21. #21
    Cal
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    That sux
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