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  1. #1
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Default First Car?

    Hey fellow froggers!

    Well i have had an obsession for french cars for a long long time now and now i have gotten my l's I am thinking what kind of car to get???

    I have been looking round and seeing what would like fit my criteria!

    1. Safe
    2. Economical
    3. Reliable
    4. Cheap to run
    5. Isnt a 3 door (205 GTI excluded )
    6. And not toooooo slow!
    7. Decent condition

    I have only a couple of grand to spend and I was just wanting to know what would be a good french car to buy which meets this criteria to the maximum level???

    I am open to any of the 3 marques!

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    Thanks heaps!

    Cya Stalled
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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STALLED
    Hey fellow froggers!

    Well i have had an obsession for french cars for a long long time now and now i have gotten my l's I am thinking what kind of car to get???

    I have been looking round and seeing what would like fit my criteria!

    1. Safe
    2. Economical
    3. Reliable
    4. Cheap to run
    5. Isnt a 3 door (205 GTI excluded )
    6. And not toooooo slow!
    7. Decent condition

    I have only a couple of grand to spend and I was just wanting to know what would be a good french car to buy which meets this criteria to the maximum level???

    I am open to any of the 3 marques!

    Thanks heaps!

    Cya Stalled
    i couldn't reccomend a rear wheel drive pug more then anything in the couple thousand dollar price range. You will find a very good 504 in that price range, get a TI and you won't be disappointed. 504's are not traffic light cars but they will out handle most modern front and rear wheel drive cars. If you want a somewhat more modern car get a 505, it has most of the traits of the 504 and has all the mod cons. if its a 205 your after, you should be able to get a decent series 1 or 2 for around $3000-$5000, but it will be high kilometres. If i was going to get a high KM pug i'd definately get an older rear wheel drive pug, they were built a lot stronger and the parts are cheap and readily available.

  3. #3
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Ahhh thanks for such a quick reply!

    What do you mean by the term "traffic light car"- is that to do with the performance?

    I was thinking about a RWD Pug like a 504-05 but what i am hesitant about is the high mileages on most of these cars?

    Anyone got another opinion......What about citroens and renaults?

    Cya Stalled
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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STALLED
    Ahhh thanks for such a quick reply!

    What do you mean by the term "traffic light car"- is that to do with the performance?

    I was thinking about a RWD Pug like a 504-05 but what i am hesitant about is the high mileages on most of these cars?

    Anyone got another opinion......What about citroens and renaults?

    Cya Stalled
    it is to do with there performance. What i meen is that they are not the fastest acelerating car, i meen they willl go reasonably quick, but not off the line. A high mileage 504 or 505 shouldn't be a problem, a lot of the engines in 504's and 505's will last well after 500k kilometres some even to 1 million without a rebuild if looked after. as with regards to citroen and renault i could think of a few but i don't have the best knowledge of cits or rens

  5. #5
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    orestes is right about the pugs, it's what i'd be in if i hadn't bought my renault 12 for $50. it needed tyres and some rust done for rego, thats it, but i restored it fully instead and it cost me thousands. my brother just bought another r12 and put a new motor in it for under $1000 with 8 months rego.
    you may be after something a bit more moder though. i do miss air con sometimes, but then i find some twisty roads and forget about it.

    my choice for renaults when taking into consideration: availability in good cond, lowish mileage, etc, would be:

    -r16TS (seen alot of good 16's for sale, but not many 17/15's)
    -r19 (but must be real good)
    -fuego (again must be real good)

    but then don't write off the older renaults, as a well tuned and sorted old renault will still stick it to alot of modern cars, especially when you hit some corners.

    can't help with the cits though, i'd like to learn more about them myself actually.

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    If you wanted something a bit more modern, I would suggest a Citroen BX, they are relaible and cheap to maintain, and 20 years more modern in design than a 504.

    You should be able to get a medium mileage BX 16 for around $2,000, or cheaper for one reqiring some work.

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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petermelb
    If you wanted something a bit more modern, I would suggest a Citroen BX, they are relaible and cheap to maintain, and 20 years more modern in design than a 504.

    You should be able to get a medium mileage BX 16 for around $2,000, or cheaper for one reqiring some work.
    I was considering the Bx, what would be considered a medium mileage car?

    Would a Cx be worth looking at or they quite expensive to run and at that price would the car be in "poorer" condition?

    Anyone else?

    Cya Stalled
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    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    I vote the 504.

    My first and still my only car.

    The do go fast, so long as you are racing a truck. Mine is a Carb though.

    shobbz
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    1975 504 GL

  9. #9
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    as much of a diamond fan i am, i agree with shobbz. go the 504TI

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    Quote Originally Posted by STALLED
    I was considering the Bx, what would be considered a medium mileage car?

    Would a Cx be worth looking at or they quite expensive to run and at that price would the car be in "poorer" condition?

    Anyone else?

    Cya Stalled
    A BX at around 250 - 350,000 would be considered medium mileage with one of them. We bought one a while back that needed a set of tyres and a bit of bodywork for $550 that is a real doll.
    There are the odd CX around for the price range but unless you are a competant DIYer, like a D, they are not practical due to repairers seeing them as a cash cow. They aren't all that hard to work on but legend has it that they are so they capitalise on that fear.
    The points you have to consider are "How easy and at what cost will repairs be? How much information will be readily available on the 'net for a first time car owner?" and I think at present "What fuel consumption can I expect and who can do any repairs I need who is a reasonable distance from where I work or live?"
    On all fronts I feel you'll find the BX wins hands down over either the CX or the 504. They have a lot of the refinements of the modern car and are more mainstream in their designs.
    If you find you can live OK with the BX then as time goes on and opportunities arise, no doubts you'll consider a CX, 504 or D but I think you need to crawl before you walk.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    The points you have to consider are "How easy and at what cost will repairs be? How much information will be readily available on the 'net for a first time car owner?" and I think at present "What fuel consumption can I expect and who can do any repairs I need who is a reasonable distance from where I work or live?"
    On all fronts I feel you'll find the BX wins hands down over either the CX or the 504. They have a lot of the refinements of the modern car and are more mainstream in their designs.
    If you find you can live OK with the BX then as time goes on and opportunities arise, no doubts you'll consider a CX, 504 or D but I think you need to crawl before you walk.

    Alan S
    I would have to say that repairs on a 504 or 505 are fairly simple and i can't see them being harder to maintain then a BX. The 504 is the more simple of the two, especially if you go for an injected model (the KF injection on the 504 is really quite simple, however the injection system on a 505 can be pretty daunting even for a mechanicly minded person), if you go for a 505 with a carb they are just as easy to manage as any 504. If econemy is an issue get a DIesel, once again you will suffer from lack of acelearation with the diesel, but we personally have a car that has trip from 200km outside of brisbabne to sydney for $60 at todays fuel prices. You should be able to pick up a 504 Diesel or 505 SRDT(turbo and probably will give you slightly better performance), or 505 diesel within your price range and if econemy is your issue then this car will suit you to a T. Also, if your not mechanicly minded there are plenty of mechanics that can service pugs especially the older ones (504,505) and the price of parts on a 504 and 505 are nowhere near as ridiculous as some of the newer frogs, because there is plenty of them and plenty of wreacks when you need parts.
    Last edited by orestes; 24th August 2004 at 02:49 PM.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    I would have to say that repairs on a 504 or 505 are fairly simple and i can't see them being harder to maintain then a BX. The 504 is the more simple of the two, especially if you go for an injected model (the KF injection on the 504 is really quite simple, however the injection system on a 505 can be pretty daunting even for a mechanicly minded person), if you go for a 505 with a carb they are just as easy to manage as any 504. If econemy is an issue get a DIesel, once again you will suffer from lack of acelearation with the diesel, but we personally have a car that has trip from 200km outside of brisbabne to sydney for $60 at todays fuel prices. You should be able to pick up a 504 Diesel or 505 SRDT(turbo and probably will give you slightly better performance), or 505 diesel within your price range and if econemy is your issue then this car will suit you to a T. Also, if your not mechanicly minded there are plenty of mechanics that can service pugs especially the older ones (504,505) and the price of parts on a 504 and 505 are nowhere near as ridiculous as some of the newer frogs, because there is plenty of them and plenty of wreacks when you need parts.


    for a first car i wouldn't recomend a 504TI unless you know exactly how it all operates

    yes they are pretty simple to get to run right but i have seen so many that have been stuffed up

    i also wouldn't recomend a diesel as a first car either unless you have a friendly bank manager to help you out in case something goes wrong with the engine

    i'd say go for a simple BX or a carb 504/505
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Ahhh thanks for that i was thinkin about a carby 505 or BX!

    Are the carby models the GR and SR in the 505 and the STI/GTI is the 2.2 dourvin which has the injection?

    What about the Bx-WHat models would i be looking out for?

    Would it worth looking out for a cheap 205 GTI or would it be too much hassle?

    Thanks heaps!

    Cya STalled
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STALLED
    Ahhh thanks for that i was thinkin about a carby 505 or BX!

    Are the carby models the GR and SR in the 505 and the STI/GTI is the 2.2 dourvin which has the injection?

    What about the Bx-WHat models would i be looking out for?

    Would it worth looking out for a cheap 205 GTI or would it be too much hassle?

    Thanks heaps!

    Cya STalled

    both the GR and SR are carby cars with a 2L pushrod engine

    as for the cits you would have to ask one of the cit guys
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Ahhh thanks for all the info!

    Now all i have to do is work out whats what and have a look round.

    How much would i be looking at for a 505 is above average condition which is a SR/GR?

    What kind of features do they have, are they fairly basic?

    Saftey is an important priority.......How do they rate in a accident? Are they safe cars?

    Thanks heaps again!

    Cya Stalled
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

    1997 Peugeot 406 2.0 Manual - On Loan

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    i would say maybe $1500 to $4000 for a decent 505 GR or SR, but anyway heres some straight from the trading post

    Queensland

    PEUGEOT 505 GR 1982, sedan, automatic, 192,000kms, reliable daily driver, with 6 months rego, average cond, air, tow bar -$1500 Wavell Heights 3891 7477 or (0412) 870 227

    Peugeot 505 SR 1984 white, Sedan Auto, 238744kms, air conditioning, cloth seats, gas, #6210 $1299 Ray Vincent Motors 3428 Pacific Highway Springwood(cars2) 3209 5011 0418721579

    New South Wales/ACT

    Peugeot 505 GR 1983 sedan automatic, 170000kms, 1 owner, MVO-839, excel cond, $3300 neg GORDON 0415-08 0757

    PEUGEOT 505 1981 SILVER
    Rego 5/2005, reliable car, $1500 TEJ-456 ARMIDALE 02-6771 4518 or 0402-967526

    Victoria

    Peugeot 505 GR auto 1983 low kms. ECond. RWCert. Reg. CJU256 $2995 BH (03) 98172532 AH (03)95318731 Balwyn

    PEUGEOT 505 SR auto 1982 p/s, a/c, elect/windows, very low kms, excellent as new condition thr'out, always garaged, one owner deceased estate, CBB214, RWCert, $5,500ono, (03) 97632884, (0409)950085, Knoxfield

    Peugeot 505 1984, Sedan Automatic, Get our your Jacket with the Leather Patches on the Elbows. Very clean old Peugeot, Drives well, ROL-013 $700 Almac Car Sales 371 Old Geelong Road Hoppers Crossing, VIC3029. Ph John 9369 5989 or 0425 722 221, LMCT4352

    South Australia

    N/A

    Western Australia

    N/A

    Tasmania

    N/A

    hope that gives you a bit of an idea of whats avaialable at the moment and what its worth. What state are you from stalled. a base model 505 should have power steering, aircon and front power windows, the rear windows are hand wind. They have most of the mod, cons of a modern car. As with regards to safety well they've got very good side intrusion bars, and are built like a brick i'd say a good 505 is as safe as anything on the road.
    Last edited by orestes; 24th August 2004 at 05:49 PM.

  17. #17
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    In the BX you'll find anything with an "i" on the end is fuel injected (Gti TZi Tri etc) whereas a Trs or GT will be carby.
    The only downside to BXs with carby is that they need a good fuel filter system on them; something that carby cars rarely ever came out with. The Efi systems on them are fairly troublefree though.
    BX parts new were down priced about 2 years ago by around 35% due to the huge numbers produced and the stockpile that were floating around on the market, which says heaps for their reliability. I'd suggest fuel injected over the carby model as there are no jets to clog and floats to stick; more of a set & forget type of thing. My son has a TZi that has done over 20K klms since he bought it without any fuel or ignition dramas.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by STALLED
    How much would i be looking at for a 505 is above average condition which is a SR/GR?

    What kind of features do they have, are they fairly basic?

    Saftey is an important priority.......How do they rate in a accident? Are they safe cars?

    Thanks heaps again!

    Cya Stalled
    Pug 505's have been acknowledged for a while as one of the safer older cars. So I guess as long as you get something that is structuraly good, ie not previously biffed or rusty you should be getting a decent car.

    http://www.mynrma.com.au/used_safety_ratings_lux.asp

    For their day they were quite luxo. Air cond, cloth seats, 4 wheel discs, etc. now even an Echo beats it for equipment if not refinement.

    My pick would be something in a solid paint, ie not metallic, as the metallic stuff seems to fade prematurely if left in the sun and look scruffy. Not a big choice there, appliance white, toothpaste blue, bright red and banana beige.

    For $2K you should be able to find something worthwhile.

    Happy searching!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    In the BX you'll find anything with an "i" on the end is fuel injected (Gti TZi Tri etc)
    Alan S
    same goes with a pug anything with an i on the end is injected sli,sri,sti,gti etc...

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Simon]

    ...now even an Echo beats it for equipment if not refinement...
    [QUOTE]

    no


    84 505 GTi - Sold to a friend... written off 3 months later

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    [QUOTE=petermc505][QUOTE=Simon]

    ...now even an Echo beats it for equipment if not refinement...

    no
    Wow, so you are saying an Echo beats a 505 for refinement! That does surprise me.......

  22. #22
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Yeah, i have joined the Peugeot Club of NSW and i get the "Pugilist" sent out to me, maybe its worth having a look at the for sale section and seeing what club members are selling their cars?

    Thanks orestes or sourcing all that info on the for sale cars around Australia, looks like some orite buys there!

    When it comes to parts on them, would i be paying a premium over say a similar holden part?

    Can the parts be bought new for the 505 and is there still a good supply of used parts from wreckers?

    Thanks heaps!

    Cya Stalled
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    Quote Originally Posted by STALLED
    Yeah, i have joined the Peugeot Club of NSW and i get the "Pugilist" sent out to me, maybe its worth having a look at the for sale section and seeing what club members are selling their cars?

    Thanks orestes or sourcing all that info on the for sale cars around Australia, looks like some orite buys there!

    When it comes to parts on them, would i be paying a premium over say a similar holden part?

    Can the parts be bought new for the 505 and is there still a good supply of used parts from wreckers?

    Thanks heaps!

    Cya Stalled

    thats ok, have a look at the for sale section here and see if there is anything. I know there has been a few 505's advertised of late in the for sale section of this board. As with regards to parts, we don't generally buy new so i wouldn't have much of an idea, that said there is a stock pile of 504 and 505 wreacks at wreackers so second hand parts are fairly cheap. Also most parts except for panels are interchangable between 505's,504's and 604's so that opens up the availability of even more parts.
    Last edited by orestes; 24th August 2004 at 06:29 PM.

  24. #24
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Would it be possible for someone to give me some information on the carby Bx's? Were the series 2 Bx's carby fed or were they all injection models?

    They seem like a pretty good alternative

    Cya STalled
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  25. #25
    nJm
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    I'm still on my first car - a 1983 Peugeot 505 GR. I managed to track down a 5spd manual. It had only done 255,000km, although completely lacked a service history. In the 2 years I've had it I have needed to spend quite a lot of money on it, but that was because everything on this car was original. The clutch, shock absorbers, hydraulics (brake + clutch cylinders), everything. It even still had its original Michelin XZX 180 spare tyre.

    So, I've needed to spend quite a bit, but with a bit of luck you'll find one that has had all these parts replaced over time.

    Day to day running is very cheap. Changing the oil is something anyone can do (and something you should do every 5000km in a car this age). A 5L bottle of Mobil 20W50 oil can often be found on sale at Kmart for $12 or so. A Purflux oil filter is usually around $15. Then every 10,000km take it to a mechanic if you feel out of your depth (or lack equipment) to replace the points and condensor, adjust tiiming and carburetor mixture settings.

    I'll give you a quick run down on the different models.

    505 GR: 2L carb, mechanical ignition, central locking, front power windows, 2 speaker radio/cassette (does have 4" holes in parcel shelf for rear speakers), air conditioning.

    505 SR: 2L carb with electronic ignition (requires far less maintanence), power steering, rest the same as GR, although it has slightly wider 14" steel rims fitted with plastic hub caps.

    Parts are easy to find and cheap. In Melbourne your best bet for new parts is either European Auto Import or Caravelle Imports. Both are around the Burwood/Box Hill area. I got new headlight protectors from them, but it is also were you go to get stuff like water pumps, gaskets etc. For second hand parts there are lots of Peugeot wreckers. I know of a few great ones in Melbourne who will have anything you need, and often sell rebuilt second hand parts.

    My 505 is a great car and if you're in Melbourne you could take a look at it. At the moment it needs a carburetor rebuild and a new distributor (I'm thinking about sticking the electronic ignition off an SR into it while I'm at it), but it still runs quite well. The suspension is fantastic. You'd be amazed by what you can do both on and off road in these things
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

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