GTI HDI? Does it perform?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Rusty@'s Avatar
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    Icon9 GTI HDI? Does it perform?

    Just recently a short article was published in this months edition of the Canberra PUG club newsletter. It was all about the new 206 GTI HDI that is to hit the roads of europe rather soon, i believe.

    Now I own a 405 SRDT and love the way it handles and performs, but I keep in mind she is a diesel and it can be beaten off the mark easily by a standard 2.0L petrol. I can say this as most of my friends own Lancers and all 8 times out of 10 can beat me without too much effort.

    How on earth can you build a performance 1.6L diesel? Is this just a sporty looking economic car or is it truely as they say "the new revolution in sports car"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Just recently a short article was published in this months edition of the Canberra PUG club newsletter. It was all about the new 206 GTI HDI that is to hit the roads of europe rather soon, i believe.

    Now I own a 405 SRDT and love the way it handles and performs, but I keep in mind she is a diesel and it can be beaten off the mark easily by a standard 2.0L petrol. I can say this as most of my friends own Lancers and all 8 times out of 10 can beat me without too much effort.

    How on earth can you build a performance 1.6L diesel? Is this just a sporty looking economic car or is it truely as they say "the new revolution in sports car"?
    i can say it is posible to build a sporty diesel... look at some of the high end BMW's and VW's and you will find that they are diesels and have the capability to pull a lot of ponies... i beleive also when BMW won le mans recently that it was in a diesel engined car.... wether or not you can do the same with a 1.6 is yet to be seen... allthough with the way petrol prices are going i cant see that its to far off
    Last edited by orestes; 3rd August 2004 at 07:38 PM.

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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Just recently a short article was published in this months edition of the Canberra PUG club newsletter. It was all about the new 206 GTI HDI that is to hit the roads of europe rather soon, i believe.

    Now I own a 405 SRDT and love the way it handles and performs, but I keep in mind she is a diesel and it can be beaten off the mark easily by a standard 2.0L petrol. I can say this as most of my friends own Lancers and all 8 times out of 10 can beat me without too much effort.

    How on earth can you build a performance 1.6L diesel? Is this just a sporty looking economic car or is it truely as they say "the new revolution in sports car"?
    I am not sure about the 206 GTI HDI but I saw an ENgkish Car magazine type show on Fox the other day, yhink it was 5th Gear and he was absolutly caning a Skoda tdi around a race track and he was very impressed. He was surprised with the vast amount of torque, and he actually recprded a bettre time than a Mini he tested on the same day.

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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Just recently a short article was published in this months edition of the Canberra PUG club newsletter. It was all about the new 206 GTI HDI that is to hit the roads of europe rather soon, i believe.

    Now I own a 405 SRDT and love the way it handles and performs, but I keep in mind she is a diesel and it can be beaten off the mark easily by a standard 2.0L petrol. I can say this as most of my friends own Lancers and all 8 times out of 10 can beat me without too much effort.

    How on earth can you build a performance 1.6L diesel? Is this just a sporty looking economic car or is it truely as they say "the new revolution in sports car"?
    I am not sure about the 206 GTI HDI but I saw an English Car show on Fox the other day, on BBC WORLD think it was 5th Gear and he was absolutly caning a Skoda tdi around a race track and he was very impressed. He was surprised with the vast amount of torque, and he actually recprded a bettre time than a Mini he tested on the same day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    I am not sure about the 206 GTI HDI but I saw an English Car show on Fox the other day, on BBC WORLD think it was 5th Gear and he was absolutly caning a Skoda tdi around a race track and he was very impressed. He was surprised with the vast amount of torque, and he actually recprded a bettre time than a Mini he tested on the same day.

    Yeah, saw that too... It was actually Top Gear and they raced the to cars in the same time and the Skoda won against a Mini Cooper S....

    I say "Vive le Diesel"
    Vive la France !

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    Top Gear is far and away better than 5th Gear. They do the craziest, funniest stuff to cars. For example they gave a Lada to the Lotus engineers (no expense spared) to modify. Came back and you wouldn't have recognised it. Excellent stuff.

    The new Skodas aren't that bad and look okay.

    As for a 1.6 diesel sports car; we will wait and see!
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


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    UFO
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    Cops in London are using BMW 5 series diesels. In fact 80% of euro drivers seem to be in diesels.


    IIRC, the Pug 406 coupe in diesel performs better all round than the V6 petrol.
    Craig K
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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    IIRC, the Pug 406 coupe in diesel performs better all round than the V6 petrol.
    and isn't that a good thing considering how much more economic and enviromentaly friendly diesel is compared to petrol ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    Cops in London are using BMW 5 series diesels. In fact 80% of euro drivers seem to be in diesels.
    I don't think you can say that.... The cops BMW 5 series, Volvo, Mercedes, Subaru Impreza WRX and most of them are petrol, mate. Then when you say that europe is 80% diesel, once again that is not correct. First of all the british don't like it then the european country where there are most diesel cars is France and it is only 70% of it....




    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    IIRC, the Pug 406 coupe in diesel performs better all round than the V6 petrol.
    No it does not but it performs better than the 2.0L and 2.2L....
    Vive la France !

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    UFO
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    Quote:
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by UFO
    Cops in London are using BMW 5 series diesels. In fact 80% of euro drivers seem to be in diesels.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    I don't think you can say that.... The cops BMW 5 series, Volvo, Mercedes, Subaru Impreza WRX and most of them are petrol, mate.

    Well, mate, the red diesel series 5 BMW that went past me in Westminster with the stickers saying POLICE and the flouro stickers and flashing lights with the slightly rattly sounding engine and the letter D in the model name must have had serious frikkin timing problems then and must have been a taxi! Shortly after I saw another one almost the same except it had two different cops inside and had a different rego.

    I can also say what I perceive, but will of course stand corrected when proven wrong. I said they seem to be in diesels, and certainly this was the case in France for the four weeks I was there and driving all over the place.

    Then when you say that europe is 80% diesel, once again that is not correct. First of all the british don't like it then the european country where there are most diesel cars is France and it is only 70% of it....




    Quote:
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by UFO
    IIRC, the Pug 406 coupe in diesel performs better all round than the V6 petrol.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    No it does not but it performs better than the 2.0L and 2.2L....

    Point taken and I stand corrected - until proven right of course.
    Craig K
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    i can say it is posible to build a sporty diesel... look at some of the high end BMW's and VW's and you will find that they are diesels and have the capability to pull a lot of ponies... i beleive also when BMW won le mans recently that it was in a diesel engined car.... wether or not you can do the same with a 1.6 is yet to be seen... allthough with the way petrol prices are going i cant see that its to far off


    it's not so much the horsepower in a diesel as the amount of torque they produce and it begins most of the time just off idle and that is what is making modern day diesels something to be reckoned with

    as for something that goes pretty well have a go at the new jag that has the pug developed 2.7L V6 diesel in it and does something like 0-100km/h in under 5 secs i seem to recall
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    it's not so much the horsepower in a diesel as the amount of torque they produce and it begins most of the time just off idle and that is what is making modern day diesels something to be reckoned with

    as for something that goes pretty well have a go at the new jag that has the pug developed 2.7L V6 diesel in it and does something like 0-100km/h in under 5 secs i seem to recall
    All the diesels I've driven have had nothing down low but pull hard from 1500 RPM.
    I had always thought that diesels had torque from zero revs but quickly learnt otherwise and used the gearbox a bit more.

    Graham Wallis

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    it's not so much the horsepower in a diesel as the amount of torque they produce and it begins most of the time just off idle and that is what is making modern day diesels something to be reckoned with

    as for something that goes pretty well have a go at the new jag that has the pug developed 2.7L V6 diesel in it and does something like 0-100km/h in under 5 secs i seem to recall
    true and i stand corected that its not just the horsepower... but look at the v12 touareg and things like that those things are amazing especialy for a diesel and have a cow padock full of power as well as the performance to go with it if i was going to own a big off roader with a bucket load of perforamce and had enough money to spend on anything it would definately be a touareg F the cayenne
    Last edited by orestes; 3rd August 2004 at 11:42 PM.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    All the diesels I've driven have had nothing down low but pull hard from 1500 RPM.
    I had always thought that diesels had torque from zero revs but quickly learnt otherwise and used the gearbox a bit more.

    Graham Wallis


    that's true

    they need a different style of driving in that say you are in a petrol car and you want to get to 100km/h you start backing off at around 85/90km/h and you will reach 100km/h but in a diesel you power through to the 100mark

    they are fairly gutless at idle but most with a turbo will spool up from around the 1500rpm and up mark and that's where they start to get going

    i saw a 405 one day take off from a set of lights and at first there was nothing then all of a sudden it broke into wheelspin as the turbo kicked in

    once they are rolling they have bucket loads of torque and remembering 405's don't have a lot of HP to play with but a lot of torque

    i know my old mans 405 climbs hills like they aren't there and you compare that to say a 504 it's like chalk and cheese

    the other thing is they still have a fair bit of torque at idle

    next time you hop in a 405 put it on an incline and put it in gear and engage the clutch and the thing will just take up and roll up the hill where as a petrol car will shudder unless you give it a bit of gas

    the newer pug diesels have the turbo come in earlier than the 405 as well now

    i think the 405 spools up at around 2200rpm where as the last of the 406's spooled up at 1500-1800rpm

    be interesting to see what the new generation is like
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    I'd have to agree with you graham, the diesel really pulls after 1500 - 2000 rpm but off the idle, nothing special. I know that if you mounted the intercooler on the front it would increase low end response as the heat rises through top mounted intercoolers at a stand still but not by much.

    But as such there is not much you can really do to improve off the mark oomph is there? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as i am very willing to experiment.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    that's true

    they are fairly gutless at idle but most with a turbo will spool up from around the 1500rpm and up mark and that's where they start to get going

    i saw a 405 one day take off from a set of lights and at first there was nothing then all of a sudden it broke into wheelspin as the turbo kicked in

    That is what I get once in second or third gear she spins like a dynamo because of the surge of power from the turbo kick in.

    BTW has anyone ever played with Blow off valves on diesels? I know that they are meant to reduce turbo lag and in turn protect your turbo from backward spinning, saving your bearings but, are they a viable option in a diesel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    I'd have to agree with you graham, the diesel really pulls after 1500 - 2000 rpm but off the idle, nothing special. I know that if you mounted the intercooler on the front it would increase low end response as the heat rises through top mounted intercoolers at a stand still but not by much.

    But as such there is not much you can really do to improve off the mark oomph is there? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as i am very willing to experiment.....
    Even the 504 I had got really cranky if you tried to drive it hard from very low revs, so I don't think that it is just the turbo lag.

    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    I'd have to agree with you graham, the diesel really pulls after 1500 - 2000 rpm but off the idle, nothing special. I know that if you mounted the intercooler on the front it would increase low end response as the heat rises through top mounted intercoolers at a stand still but not by much.

    But as such there is not much you can really do to improve off the mark oomph is there? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as i am very willing to experiment.....
    Crank the boost up to 16 - 20 psi, fit a large fully sik front mounted intercooler, Dial the fuel pump to supply more fuel, sequential turbo's. Make sure you fit at least 3 BOV as they sound fully sik at the lights when you rev the car, replace the fuel filter with a higher capacity one, fit a walbro pusher pump by the tank. All these, with the exception of the BOV will improve the performance, however expect poor fuel economy and greatly reduced engine life as the EGT rises to meltdown point.

    Failing that enjoy your SRDT the way it is meant to be. If your mates are pi$$ing you off about off the line speed, either buy a riceburner or suggest some other alternatives such as a legal race to Goondawindi BP. You will easily make it nonstop from CBR but your mates will need probably 2 fuel stops. Try some windy road and see how they go. Who can drive the furthest on 100$ of fuel, and when fuel hits 150cpl you can really laugh at them.
    Neil
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiserman
    Crank the boost up to 16 - 20 psi, fit a large fully sik front mounted intercooler, Dial the fuel pump to supply more fuel, sequential turbo's. Make sure you fit at least 3 BOV as they sound fully sik at the lights when you rev the car, replace the fuel filter with a higher capacity one, fit a walbro pusher pump by the tank. All these, with the exception of the BOV will improve the performance, however expect poor fuel economy and greatly reduced engine life as the EGT rises to meltdown point.

    Failing that enjoy your SRDT the way it is meant to be. If your mates are pi$$ing you off about off the line speed, either buy a riceburner or suggest some other alternatives such as a legal race to Goondawindi BP. You will easily make it nonstop from CBR but your mates will need probably 2 fuel stops. Try some windy road and see how they go. Who can drive the furthest on 100$ of fuel, and when fuel hits 150cpl you can really laugh at them.

    yeah am definitely going to grab me a GTI, but have to find a house with a double garage, to put both cars in, I believe that your cars treats you how you treat her!! Like a girlfriend no?....

    As for my friends and their lil imports from Jap land, well non of them can get upto my top speed. Take a guess at what my old beast does!!! I was walking on water when she hit the mark!! apart from the fact that I couldn't see behind me as she was smoking like a commercial steam liner she goes like a rocket when you let her breath free!!!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    As for my friends and their lil imports from Jap land, well non of them can get upto my top speed. Take a guess at what my old beast does!!! I was walking on water when she hit the mark!! apart from the fact that I couldn't see behind me as she was smoking like a commercial steam liner she goes like a rocket when you let her breath free!!!
    Be prepared to trade in early or put up with some expensive rebuilds if you're going to drive a diesel like that.

    Diesels are great in trucks (not that they aren't good in cars too). My Mazda Bravo ute (non turbo) had trouble keeping up with the traffic in Canberra but would start in second gear even with a tonne of wet sand in the back, unless it was also on a steep hill.
    Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by yawood
    Be prepared to trade in early or put up with some expensive rebuilds if you're going to drive a diesel like that.

    Noted, but In the time I've owned it, it's only been done twice and the turbo has been recently overhauled for piece of mind. I guess everyone tests their car at least once. Just wanna see what she can do when she drinks like a fish!!

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    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Suggest if you are going to drive it like that that you fit a pyrometer pre turbo. The numbers on that should dissuade you from doing it again.
    Neil
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiserman
    Suggest if you are going to drive it like that that you fit a pyrometer pre turbo. The numbers on that should dissuade you from doing it again.
    Okay okay guys leave me alone I promise i will never do it again. but just outa interest what sort of temps am i likely to be seeing?? red hot??

    By the way it has been eating at me a bit it's gonna sound really dumb but i can't work it out.. What is a riced car??

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    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Try these sites for an insight.
    Laugh at rice
    Beaterz not just rice that one but a good laugh anyway.
    rice boys
    Neil
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    but just outa interest what sort of temps am i likely to be seeing?? red hot??


    Now I'll make you all cringe - I run the Disco to 720 degrees C (pre turbo). That's what I've been convinced is Ok although I often read about Toyota owners getting nervous at 600!?

    Cheers

    Jim

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