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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! dave from bendigo's Avatar
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    Default not happy

    20 minutes ago I was pulled over by a policemen and fined quite bit for not displaying P-plates, I did however have them up but they were white with red P on them, which I thought was fine o use. Apparently they must be red only with a white P even though the others are sold everywhere as well, I just wondering if anyone had any further insights into this. He said that I had failed to display P plates (the offence)and thus stopped others knowing I was a P plater, even though I DID have P plates up. Also he told me hat using wheel spacers was illegal, is this true. Regards, Dave

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Sh!t you should have just tucked them in behind the number plate like the ricers do. That cant be illegal judging from my last trip around Sydney.
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    Simple answer

    Don't pay the fine presuming it is an infringement notice and elect to appear at court. Alternatively write to the address of the prosecutions on the notice explaining that you were displaying a P plate and that you were not aware the P plate was not an approved example when you purchased it. etc etc.

    You may find that the prosecutions officer may decide NOT to proceed, and if they don't then explain it to the local magistrate in person. Magistrate has the power to set the matter aside or fine you less than the set amount in the circumstances.

    You can also check the current regulations/road rules on the Victorian Govt site (do a google search)

    Ken

  4. #4
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    I think white P on red background is de riguer in Victoria.

    Still, you must have been pretty unlucky to get such an anal retentive cop.

    Was that really all they pulled you over for? (Not that its my business)

    If you have no other offences I'm sure you could successfully contest this infringement.

  5. #5
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    Definetly appeal it!

    You gotta have your day in court!
    Cost me $61 in costs, but it was worth it...

    Be prepared, i dont think you got too many problems!
    Also do a driving course or two, just to prove you are actively trying to become a better driver!

  6. #6
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    sounds like the victorian government is really strapped for cash and will do anything to screw over their drivers. Bad luck, its pretty bad mate......

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I'd kick off by asking the place you bought them from if they were legal and if so could they give you that in writing (which if they're not, they possibly won't answer) then put the matter to the Office of Fair Trading and send a letter to the address shown on the ticket advising what you are doing. By this stage, the anal one should have had a report to type with the prospect of a few more
    Just be sure that everything is sent by registered mail so if/when you appear in court you can prove that in your honest opinion you thought it was legal and that you've done everything in your power to prove this point.
    Pity all these hopeless politicians couldn't handle the country's financial affairs more competantly thoiugh; save a lot of this kind of crap.

    Alan S
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yep,

    time to go to court. It certainly wouldn't be the first time I've been there (you could say I'm a stuborn sh!thead I guess ).

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    XTC
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    Make sure the officer has to do all the paperwork you can make him ... nothing pisses them off more. Also if he did pull you over for something else (only you know that) and failed to book you for that and picked on the "plates" that "something else" is totally imaterial ... can't be mention in court. So on the P-Plate issue alone you have a chance .. think I'd be writting some letters first.

    On the opposite end of the scale I know soneone who was fined for having P-Plates up when he shouldn't have (his 17YO daughter used his car and forgot to take the rear one down ... he didn't see it).
    Little did they know he was the editor of a certain rather large paper ... You can guess what happened next

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    The other thing i'd suggest is put these "non-P-Plate" p plates on, but let a fully licenced driver drive down the free-way at 110 with them on, lookin for cop cars...

    When he gets pulled over for speeding with p's & for displaying P's when he's not a p-plate driver... tell them they're not legally p plates!

    Cant have it both ways!

    Edit: although you've then DEFINETLY committed an offence... hmmm

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! dave from bendigo's Avatar
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    Thanks for the support, he was a senior constable however and I doubt I would win if it was his word against mine, however if you know of anyone else using the white plates, tell them to change them, it's not worth 3 demerit points and a hefty fine, regards, Dave (P.S- P platers only get 5 demerit points in vic now, I'll be off P's soon though so I'm noy too worried)
    "Some minds are like concrete...all mixed up and permanently set."

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    my answer to this is move to queensland in queensland you do not have to display P's or L's.... had you been living in queensland none of this would have happend

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    Fellow Frogger! dave from bendigo's Avatar
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    I know I just came back from my mums place at sandstone point
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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    queenslanders are so lazy no l or p plates nescesary.... you only have to indicate coming off a round about if your going straight through... no red light cameras with flim in them its a shame we're all slow ehhhhh....

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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Also he told me hat using wheel spacers was illegal, is this true. Regards, Dave[/QUOTE]

    Dave,

    As for wheel spacers, this is from VicRoads website-

    [Spacers between the wheel and hub are not permitted unless provided by the vehicle manufacturer as original equipment.

    Wheel nuts must engage the thread of the wheel stud for at least the same length as the original wheel nut and have the same taper as the mating wheel stud hole.

    The stud pattern of the replacement wheel must be the same as the original. Re-drilling wheels, hubs, drums, discs or axle flanges is not permitted. Wheels with slotted stud holes are not permitted.]

    The problem is the wheel no longer sits on the shoulder of the hub which provides the strength-not the bolts.

    Sorry to make your day even worse...

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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! dave from bendigo's Avatar
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    No, you haven't made my day even worse, I found out today that the problem I have is not to do with the offset (as bob jane told me), but is in fact either a manufacturing fault or my caliper is slightly bent. The problem I have is that the caliper is jamming up hard against the hub on the mag wheel, so presumeably this will still happen with any mag that I use. While trying to sort this problem I have found out many wheel dealers don't understAnd what the offset really means, i.e bob jane said to fix my problem I would need a larger offset- this would only make my wheel rub against the inner guard which would be an even greater problem.
    "Some minds are like concrete...all mixed up and permanently set."

  17. #17
    XTC
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    Dave you don't drive a WRX do you ???

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  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! dave from bendigo's Avatar
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    No, I drive a renault 19 hatch, I'd like a 22b wrx though.
    "Some minds are like concrete...all mixed up and permanently set."

  19. #19
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    Dave

    I was browsing around some shops in Caulfield Melbourne and in one of the many Chinese/Vietnamese style variety shops they all have the red P on white (see through style) "P" Plate on sale for the sum of $2.50 as well as the white P on red style plate, so that style of plate is readily available.

    You will probably find the same thing on sale in Bendigo shops, or at the Market at the Showgrounds or Epson.

    To your knowledge has this Senior Constable put an article in the Bendigo Advertiser warning that these "commonly available" P plates are illegal, or tried to get the suppliers of the plates to withdraw them from sale in Victoria?

    Has he previously warned you regarding using these plates? as this is the sort of "offence" normally dealt with by a policeman using his discretion to warn in the first instance rather than issue an infringement notice.

    Lastly please do not think that because he is a member of the police force that his zealous application of the law will be upheld over your evidence just because, he has that position of authority! Magistrates their children and their relatives have to live in the community too, and have little respect for either unreasonable actions, or power trips by such individuals.

    I urge you to write a letter to the Prosecutions Officer, Penalty Payment Office setting out the circumstances, including the fact that these "illegal" plates are widely available for sale in Victoria and you displayed the "P" Plate in good faith believing it to comply with the letter of the law. Send a copy of the letter to your local member of parliament and the local paper (to help other drivers who may be unwittingly breaking this law!!)

    This should lead to a warning being issued as it should have been in the first instance, instead of this arbitary action. If that is not successful please, please, take it to court, where if there is any justice, the whole trivial thing should be dismissed.

    Of course if it is dismissed costs can be awarded against the prosecution and believe you me the Police Department take notice of that!! (Your Senior Constable will probably be called before a Court Costs Review Committee to explain his over zealous action!!!) But before that he will also have to complete heaps of paperwork to even get you to court, an expensive exercise with little likelihood to recover their costs and a good chance that costs may be awarded AGAINST the Department..

    That is why I am tipping that sanity will prevail and prosecution will not proceed as a result of your PLEA letter and a caution will be substituted.

    Ken
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 29th July 2004 at 09:02 PM.

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    Many years ago, I used to sell both types of P plates. As I recall, one type was for Victoria and the other, NSW. Can't remember which was which now.

  21. #21
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    what about nsw subsidising qld though thats why they dont need red light cameras....

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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    what about nsw subsidising qld though thats why they dont need red light cameras....
    pull the other one daniel... just because we've got it better then you

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I'd kick off by asking the place you bought them from if they were legal and if so could they give you that in writing (which if they're not, they possibly won't answer) then put the matter to the Office of Fair Trading and send a letter to the address shown on the ticket advising what you are doing. By this stage, the anal one should have had a report to type with the prospect of a few more ust be sure that everything is sent by registered mail so if/when you appear in court you can prove that in your honest opinion you thought it was legal and that you've done everything in your power to prove this point.
    Pity all these hopeless politicians couldn't handle the country's financial affairs more competantly thoiugh; save a lot of this kind of crap.

    Alan S
    unfortunatly in vic they can sell you something that is illegal.its up to you if you use it and break the law .this happens all the time in auto accessories places.[and places that sell bongs and pipes. ,you dont think people smoke legal tobacco in them things,not that i would know!,cough nervous cough!!!!!!]there are all types of things sold in these places to spruce up your hot rod or show car that the everyday bloke does not realise is illegal to use on a car driven on the road.
    by law your not even supposed to lower your car without leaving you open to chances of infringment,lit up washers,wheel spacers,rims larger than 1"over standard epuipment,turbo blow off valves.the list goes on.
    in n.s.w if you install a aftermarket oil temp or pressure gauge,you are supposed to install it on THE OUTSIDE OF THE VEHICLE ie on bonnett in front of driver,the questionable reason for this they say is that if the gauges crack and blowout somehow they will not spew hot oil over the driver only over the windscreen[causing you to not be able to see and probably crash]
    so in vic its RED BACKGROUND WHITE LETTER P.
    still mate go to court and fight the dam thing,i got pulled up once for not displaying p plates,the problem was i had tinted windows ,the copper had sunny's and he couldnt see em untill he took of his sunny's to write the ticket.
    maybe we should all list the things we know to be illegal on this site so we can at least be well informed and at least know when we are breaking the law ,anyone agree-BAZZ

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    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    Fight it!
    Ignorance might not be a totally valid defence, although it should at the least be mitigating circumstances. If you bought then in good faith, you may have been technically committing an offence, but not knowingly and you were doing what you believed you had to do to comply with the law. You should at least get a reduced fine if not a caution.
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    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    my answer to this is move to queensland in queensland you do not have to display P's or L's.... had you been living in queensland none of this would have happend
    that has to be one of the STUPIDest laws ive ever heard of!


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