cit gs or pug mi16??
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
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    Default cit gs or pug mi16??

    Howdy all...

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    Stuck at a bit of a decision making point:

    My girlfriend just got her license (finally), and i think its well worth getting her her own car so she can cruise round and make those vital trial and error type learning mistakes.

    A few possibilities have recently presented themselves on the forums, though were not really in a financial; position to do anything for a month or so, but they are GOOD opportunities (or so i think)

    1. theres a citroen gs down in melbourne for sale - Gs 1220 For Sale - which is a car ive always wanted, and my girlfriend is in love with. the cons are: no rego, its in melbourne (need to arrange transport) and would hprobably have to buy sight unseen. From what the seller says, it is a very original car, and in reasonable nick.

    2. theres a 405mi16 for sale on the forum - Damaged Peugeot 405 Mi16 - with no cvs or engine mounts (geeze ya reckon its been flogged??) and no rego. The bonus here is, we already own one of these beasts and it would be nic to have 2, cos then we can share parts (and race em!). im worried about the condition of this one though, even though its a newer car then the gs.

    so what does everyone think?

    what would you do?
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  2. #2
    Simon's Avatar
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    Total stab here. Go the Mi16 (surely it would have had to have gone now though at that price for a 205 transplant....), you already know what it is and what to ask as you already have one. But probably check the costs of insurance for the new driver.

    The GS would be a lovely car but given the Pug is only a nominal amount more for a more modern car it seems the better choice. I'd say the parts cost would be similar, with the edge that whatever is spent on the Pug you may be able to recoup if it was sold.

    My totally unbiased opinion being a Renault owner.

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    IMO ??

    Neither, you need to buy a car your capable of working on in your given price range. There is no way I would buy the GS site unseen. Not because it's a Citroen, but because it's a cheap 30year old car, and you have no idea what your buying without seeing it.

    The Mi16 is a possibility, you'll need to see the car and work out how much it's going to cost you in parts to get it fixed. After all if it was a cheap/easy fix why haven't the cars owners fixed it prior to sale

    I'd suggest in your price range, a cheap Citroen BX (get someone to look at it prior to purchase) ... Actually I can't think of much else that's not going to be really old, and that isn't crap. Possibly a tidy 504 / 505 if you can find one There's not much else there, possibly a Renault 19 (which I think are over priced).

    Have a look around your local papers, you really need to see/drive a car prior to purchase, take into account the work it'll need then make an offer depending on how much it'll cost you to get the car on the road.

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    Shane L.
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Go the Mi16.
    Having already owned one, it's a case of the Devil you know & in reality, could you really lose on one of those at that price?
    My only reservation would be a new drivers ability to handle it but hey, once it's mobile if it isn't suitable, trade it in on something that is, which is more than you'll do with a GS.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Go the Mi16.

    My only reservation would be a new drivers ability to handle it

    Alan S
    its ok, shes driven one on her "L"s for the last year, so shes ok with it.

    Bit of lead-foot to tell you the truth!

    It was quite funny, she went for the test in the pug, and the tester didnt shut up during the examination, kept asking her about the car apparently!

    thanks for the input guys..



    Im gonna have a look at the mi16, just oyut of interest, more than anything.

    Does anyone know the approx cost of replacing (re-conditionin??) the cvs?
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
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    Default on a side note...

    on a different tangent...

    is there any reason i cant post replies to these car ads??

    It would be nice to be able to ask some questions of the seller - anyone looking at any of the cars in the "forsale" section would want to ask the ssame questions, so wouldnt it be beneficial if we could post replies, instead of pming or emailing the seller??

    then we could all see the answers??
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    something tells me that damaged mi16 is missing a gearbox.

    I wouldn't bother with that one, considering my mi16 has been well treated it's whole life & regularly serviced, I'm very fussy & constantly check under the hood, yet still has reliability issues/breakdowns. I wouldn't even go near one in bad condition. CV's arent cheap either.

    AlanS does most of the work on his cars, if you dont know how to work on things yourself, or even if you do, an mi16 can be a real nightmare at times.

    Tell her to get a corrolla or a lazer. Hastle free first car...
    Last edited by Jason20; 13th July 2004 at 01:32 PM.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason20
    something tells me that damaged mi16 is missing a gearbox.

    Tell her to get a corrolla or a lazer. Hastle free first car...
    What sorta reliability issues you having??

    there is NO-WAY either of us are driving a strolla (or any toyotta for that matter) or a lazer!

    cant stand toyotas, i think they should trial a "toyotta free day" on our roads, and just watch how quickly every drivers frustration level and road-rage would drop.

    if ever theres someone indicating left and turing right, its a corrolla driver.

    if ever theres someone attempting a 3 point turn on a main road during peak hour, its a corrolla driver.

    if ever theres someone doing anything stupid on the road, you can pretty safely assume that theyre doing it in a corrolla (or camry or avalon).

    9 times out of 10 anyway.

    im sorry, but you will never ever see me even considering anything with a toyotta badge on it. I dont care how reliable theyre said to be - as soona s someone steps into one, they loose all care for anything going on around them, totally oblivious to their surroundings.

    (do you think i mite have a bit of a thing against teyotahs?? yes! i hate them )


    I also would like her to own "A CAR that she can DRIVE" not just "A CAR".
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    hehe, well then, don't get a corrolla...

    I've had my Mi16 for 2.5 years now, It is my second car. It's a great car, but
    not cheap to run if you can't work on it yourself and a bit on the fragile side of things in some areas. Just put it this way, me & my Mi16 have a love hate relationship. Sometimes I just wanna drive it off a f**king cliff (when hit with massive parts/repair bills, $950 to fit a new starter motor).

    I can't see you finding a good condtition mi16 for under $5000, if you get a nasty one run for cover.

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    Hi... I'm the afore mentioned girlfriend.

    There's not much support here for the GS But I've been told time and again that the GS is a car that goes forever. We have been told that the suspension in the one for sale is good and that all the electronics are good. Also the seller seems to have been completely honest with us as to the cars true condition.

    Bearing in mind I've just got my P's (at 22 I did leave it a bit late...) I don't necessarily need a "good" car, but I'd like to keep it French. (So I'd like to avoid the corollas and lasers out there... sorry) It's really only a car for a year or two.

    I'd also just like to bring to the party that if anyone knows of a cheapish 504 in reasonably good condition, we'd be interested in that as well...

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    You will find lots of support for a GS here, just not one your buying without seeing...

    The little motors do go forever, they just blow smoke as they get tired. The gearboxs are ok, the driveshafts aren't up to the usual indestructable standards and do wear out. The problem with GS's is they are worth so little that people drive them into the ground. Trying to find a decent one is going to be quite hard.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  12. #12
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enthused!
    on a different tangent...

    is there any reason i cant post replies to these car ads??

    It would be nice to be able to ask some questions of the seller - anyone looking at any of the cars in the "forsale" section would want to ask the ssame questions, so wouldnt it be beneficial if we could post replies, instead of pming or emailing the seller??

    then we could all see the answers??
    Yep, plenty of good reasons based on experience.
    When you go to buy a car do you take a dozen total strangers along and ask their opinions? I doubt it. People selling cars don't need people who don't know a vehicle, never seen it, have no intention of buying and are not in the used car profession questioning his/her sanity based on the price that was put on it.
    If they know the car that's fair enough but when postings showing other cars that they also don't know but are priced cheaper are posted as responses, is that a fair go to the seller or for that matter the buyer? Most forums have the same problems so we're not Robinson Crusoe in that regard but even as things stand on this thread, look at the assumptions that some have made regarding the vehicle and what :might" want doing to it.
    By locking the threads, the adverts become Advertisements for a car for sale & not a topic of conversation. If the owner has the car for sale, I would have expected he would have chimed in on this thread but he hasn't which is the option most sellers prefer. A PM or E-mail or phone call puts you one on one with the seller and if you need further advice, just post back here as a topic.
    It's faiir comment that I do all my own repairs, I have to, I'm almost 4 hours drive from the nearest repairer which narrows the options, and as you would well know as a current owner, some of these specialist repairers don't miss you ($950 for a starter motor being a good example) Overseas the price for a new one is $150 - $200 depending on model and they are a fairly simple model on these so I can see no reason a new one should be over say A$400 and in most cases aren't all that hard to repair.
    I think the GS is a great little car but from a practical viewpoint, will it be reliable enough (or be able to be made that way) for your lady to feel secure driving alone in? How are the electrics and rust? Electrics can be an absolute nightmare in CXs & GSs as can body rust. If she were going to drive your car and you the GS, I'd probably say go the GS but remember when you go to sell it regardless of how well it goes, you won't have a friend in the World. Resale is extremely difficult, so if you intend going that way, be 100% sure that's what you want because if you change your mind, nobody will want to know when you try to sell. Sad situation but a truthfull one.
    Hope that clarifies it; as I say if it were me, I'd probably go the GS but my situation is far removed from yours.



    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yep,

    I tried to say nothing about that start as well. From memory I pad about $220 for a brand new factory starter through french connection for a BX. Incase your wonder BX starter are identical to Mi16 starters.

    It was about 2hours to fit with a break for a couple of beers, double that if it's your first starter you have fitted.

    That's about $700 for 2hours labour I would never pay someone to touch one of my cars, I can screw 'em up plenty good enough myself without paying someone else to stuff 'em up.

    eg. Recently my Xantia developed a knock in the front end. Everything was so bloody tight you'd swear it had just left the factory. I eventualy traced this to the anti-roll bar droplink being slightly loose, 1/8th of a turn with a spanner fixed it. I dread to think what I would have been charged, and how many items would have been replaced if I had taken it to a specialist.

    seeya,
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  14. #14
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    there is a cheapish 504, and if its as good as what it says it is and looks from its photo's it would be a pretty nice car... i don't really want to talk about this one though because well, if it doesn't sell i may offer them something ridiculous and pick it up myself... the 504 is a great car and if you can get a good one cheap then jump on it. 504's are ultra reliable, strong as anything on the road so if you hit something it'll stay hit and won't do any damage to you, and a good one especially a TI will put a smile on your face every time you drive it... i couldn't reccomend a better first car then a good 504 or 505 and theres nothing much that can go wrong with them if you get a good one
    Last edited by orestes; 13th July 2004 at 04:17 PM.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manda
    Hi... I'm the afore mentioned girlfriend.

    ...
    oh crap!

    i was talking about my other girlfriend!

    wow! thanks everyone for all the advices. Alot to consider, maybe we just get you a skateboard Manda??

    oh well, going to look at the mi16 tonight, i dont have high hopes for it, just more a chance to see whats around. From the description of it on here and what hes said on the phone, theres already quite a bit that needs fixing, and it may well be out of our price range (when rego and repairs are taken into account) for now.

    It was just an opportunity that popped up, and it cant hurt to look into it...

    will keep you all updated on our progress.

    Unless orestes wants to tell us about this secret 504 goldmine....


    cheers all


    ps AlanS: fair enough, was just wondering, cos you used to be able to. thanks.
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  16. #16
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enthused!
    Unless orestes wants to tell us about this secret 504 goldmine....
    i'll tell you if it doesn't sell, and if what i ask doesn't buy it... not trying to piss anyone off, and probably should have kept it to myself, but if its going to go for a bargain i'd like this one for myself or posbily somone else in the family. its also about the fact that you don't get many opurtunities to pick up a good 504 these days, and when there good you just want to keep them to yourself... what else keeps me from saying where and what this 504 is, is the fact that in this family lives two 504 nuts who between the both of us have had about 10 maybe a few more in the family and two in our yard at the moment in various states of disrepair
    Last edited by orestes; 13th July 2004 at 05:21 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    between the both of us have had about 10 maybe a few more in the family and two in our yard at the moment in various states of disrepair
    If these 504 things are so good why have you gone through so many and why are the two in your yard in various states of disrepair?? :-)

  18. #18
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    If these 504 things are so good why have you gone through so many and why are the two in your yard in various states of disrepair?? :-)
    a lot of the good ones we've owned have been onsold, a few of them have sucombed to rust, which is a problem for any 30 year old car, there is one of them siting somehwere in sydney at this very point of time that is fixable but off the road , theres another one which is siting here on the sunshine coast its a white wagon, the engines been around the clock at least once... its a bit rough around the edges but is still on the road... the last good one we owned was a TI that was writen off by a truck , the others have come and gone over a fairly long time period and as with every car after a while you just move onto your next... oh and another one that i remember well was writen off by someone who took it for a joy ride ... as well as this the last one we owned that was writen off made us around $3500 on insurance because it was in such a good condition... i hate jacknifed trucks ... 504's are just to good for there price, ultra reliable when looked after right and the only thing that kills them is the rust but they are for the most part a 30 year old car

    EDIT: one more thing... when you drive these things, they just want to make you smile especialy a good TI going around twisty corners with the door handles nearly scrapeing the blacktop ... another thing i frogot is that a good 5 0 has to be the most comfortable car to sit in bar none its like siting in a very expensive lounge chair, especially the blue velour jobies out of the french ones we got early on and i'm not afraid to admit we pulled one apart with irepairable rust just for those seats, i could go on forever about good 504's but its kind of off topic
    Last edited by orestes; 13th July 2004 at 05:52 PM.

  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    another thing i frogot is that a good 5 0 has to be the most comfortable car to sit in bar none its like siting in a very expensive lounge chair, especially the blue velour jobies out of the french ones we got early on and i'm not afraid to admit we pulled one apart with irepairable rust just for those seats
    504 has the most comfortable seats

    Allow me to introduce you to a Citroen...

    Now Poogoe 504's are early 70's, you must sample a seat from ANY Citroen DS of that era (ie: 70's) then report back before making such bold statements

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  20. #20
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    504 has the most comfortable seats

    Allow me to introduce you to a Citroen...

    Now Poogoe 504's are early 70's, you must sample a seat from ANY Citroen DS of that era (ie: 70's) then report back before making such bold statements

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    i may have oversteped it here... but you would have to go a long way to sit in a better seat then out of a 69 to 72 model 504 that we got here, that is the ones that were imported before production started locally and not the ones that were put together beside renaulats here(i.e the renault 12 seats)... i'm not sure if you have ever sat in these seats which were the proper french velour seats, that were made for the 504... but its an expeirence in itself... another thing that holds testiment as to why peugeot 504's are such awsome creatures and adding to my previous post is the fact that up until last year these cars were still in production, that is 1968 to 2003 and 35 years of production... we got a fairly wierd 504 over here after 1972 though, bacerlite (sp?) steering wheel and renualt 12 seats... it wasn't the same interior
    Last edited by orestes; 13th July 2004 at 06:41 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    i may have oversteped it here... but you would have to go a long way to sit in a better seat then out of a 69 to 72 model 504 that we got here, that is the ones that were imported before production started locally and not the ones that were put together beside renaulats here(i.e the renault 12 seats)... i'm not sure if you have ever sat in these seats which were the proper french velour seats, that were made for the 504... but its an expeirence in itself... another thing that holds testiment as to why peugeot 504's are such awsome creatures and adding to my previous post is the fact that up until last year these cars were still in production, that is 1968 to 2003 and 35 years of production... we got a fairly wierd 504 over here after 1972 though, bacerlite (sp?) steering wheel and renualt 12 seats... it wasn't the same interior
    It's all a matter of taste, I didn't like the locally trimmed versions of these seats at all, the imported velour ones were OK. The imported back seats on the other hand were great.
    If you want to try truly dreadful Peugeot seats sit in the back seat of a 404 wagon.
    I reckon The best seats for comfort were the early tweed 505 seats, although nowadays they are getting pretty soft. For me the best 504 front seats were the corduroy high backs from around 1977.
    The high back 504 seats weren't Renault 12, they were bigger, but made by the same company, Henderson's I believe. The bakelite wheel was common to all imported and local cars untill 1976.


    Graham Wallis

  22. #22
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    i may have oversteped it here... but you would have to go a long way to sit in a better seat then out of a 69 to 72 model 504 that we got here, that is the ones that were imported before production started locally and not the ones that were put together beside renaulats here(i.e the renault 12 seats)... i'm not sure if you have ever sat in these seats which were the proper french velour seats, that were made for the 504... but its an expeirence in itself... another thing that holds testiment as to why peugeot 504's are such awsome creatures and adding to my previous post is the fact that up until last year these cars were still in production, that is 1968 to 2003 and 35 years of production... we got a fairly wierd 504 over here after 1972 though, bacerlite (sp?) steering wheel and renualt 12 seats... it wasn't the same interior
    You really never have sat in a DS have you, front or back, there both just as good

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    You really never have sat in a DS have you, front or back, there both just as good

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    have you sat in a good 504, ... i can't say i've sat in a DS, though i'd like to take one for a drive, they're a nice looking car, allthough i prefer the ones with the rounded headlights
    Last edited by orestes; 13th July 2004 at 10:42 PM.

  24. #24
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yep

    I sure have sat in 504's. the seats are quite similar to Renaults and other pugs.

    The seats you talking about may be different. Think of big lazy boy lounge room seats, and you'll be starting to get the idea of what a DS is like

    seeya,
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    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  25. #25
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Yep

    I sure have sat in 504's. the seats are quite similar to Renaults and other pugs.

    The seats you talking about may be different. Think of big lazy boy lounge room seats, and you'll be starting to get the idea of what a DS is like

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    i can't comment on what a DS is like to sit in but the seats look comfy

    have you tried the back seat of a 604 ?

    front seats are crap but the rears i am sure are made from a different grade of leather and are one of the nicest i have ever tried in a pug

    as for fronts i can't go past what i had in the Mi-16 with the option pack
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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