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  1. #76
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    Renault and Nissan look headed for a split https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...t-report-77623

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    International chess game - whose move next...
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnbull151 View Post
    Renault and Nissan look headed for a split https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...t-report-77623
    That article also says Nissan is upset with Renault because they (Renault) have declined to charge Ghosn with any misconduct.

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    Such a bizarre story from start to (eventual) finish.
    How long till the movie comes out? The dramatic escape almost guarantees it. Starring Rowan Atkinson as Ghosn, and Meaghan Markle as his wife.

  5. #80
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    It is indeed a very strange story. Ultimately we'll find out what happened but it may take a while. For now, I learned that Japan is a lot more different than the rest of the world than I thought, even though I knew it was very different. And I think mainly about the way these companies we so much admire are tied to the Japanese economy. Who knows? Maybe it's all for the interest of Japan, maybe they just want to protect whatever, workplaces, industries, who knows? One thing I noticed over there is they are not very globalised and now I think they don't really want to be, apart from exporting stuff, which is something they are very good at. Maybe they didn't like this foreigner trying to tell them that it is cheaper to buy nuts and bolts from China, and it's the same quality so why should they pay a premium price for something made in Japan, or maybe he wanted to move production offshore or whatnot and then the Japanese thought they won't have that, let's get rid of this guy.

    Either way, I would have done a runner too, seeing the way the Japanese justice system operates.

    And I understand why Renault/France might not have wanted to indict him. And why the Japanese didn't like that. This way they are sort of left alone, their accusations seem unsupported by other justice systems, which undermines their credibility even further, something they most likely don't appreciate. "Yeah, maybe he did something wrong, but you haven't really convinced us and you haven't made public what you've got on him so we decline to comment" sort of thing. The Japanese legal system will struggle to convince the west and one of the consequences I foresee is that no westerner will decide easily to work there. Moreover, I don't see many companies looking forward to work with them, which kinda leaves them alone. In a global economy, that can't be a good thing. Next time Nissan comes to the brink, I don't think anyone will rush to the rescue or they'll impose such conditions, the Japanese will probably have to give the company away to convince anyone to help.

    Well, it was interesting.
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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Renault-Nissan shares drop 40% since Ghosn's arrest.
    Some of this is likely due to other market forces but the alliance is underperforming the market generally.
    The Ghosn factor is sure to be responsible for some of the slide.
    The loss is share value makes the few billion yen the Ghosn allegedly did not declare look like peanuts.



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    Bit of a case of "be careful what you wish for" eh...
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    lets see what the new auto trading world becomes with post Brexit and all that and I am sure Japan would like to be part of any new trends even if that means Nissan folds?

    Ken

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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Can't see that Brexit will have any impact on car sales anywhere except the UK.
    There are very few vehicles manufactured in the UK and maybe imports from Asia might increase and imports from Europe might decrease but the UK market isn't big enough to make any difference to the overall world market.
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    The UK has a significant car manufacturing industry with huge numbers exported.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nited-kingdom/
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    Can't see that Brexit will have any impact on car sales anywhere except the UK.
    There are very few vehicles manufactured in the UK and maybe imports from Asia might increase and imports from Europe might decrease but the UK market isn't big enough to make any difference to the overall world market.
    Around 633,000 manufactured last year, with 533,000 exported from the UK.

    I hope none of the production workers voted for Brexit.
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    Well it seems Boris has a windfall return coming as this Electric car doesn't get built in the UK. I wonder if that is some market response or just dreams that didn't come true.

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-ne...rce=newsletter

    The UK Government has recouped millions of pounds from Dyson after it mothballed its electric car project
    The Government has taken back 7.8m from Dyson, following the vacuum cleaner manufacturer’s decision to scrap its electric car project in October 2019. Dyson received the grant in 2016, amid expectations that the project would bring an engineering and employ- ment boom in the company’s home town of Wiltshire.
    Before Dyson abandoned its electric car project, the company said the Government funding had been given to them to prop up its R&D and education departments, which would continue to work on solid state battery technology. However, after talks with the Department for Business, Dyson has decided to pay back the grant in its entirety.

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    The German and French car makers need the UK market. Big time. The EU ideologues won't hold out for long over motor vehicles. If the EU had stayed as a customs union this wouldn't have happened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvr View Post
    The UK has a significant car manufacturing industry with huge numbers exported.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nited-kingdom/

    Not for long!

    They are critically dependent upon free trade with Europe , especially "just in time" ordering etc. They are not alone in this

    The queues of lorries at Dover and elsewhere are going to make that all very hard

    The car industry has been warning of this for years but politics trumped rationality

    Why am I not surprised that politics trumped rationality?

    Andrew

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Around 633,000 manufactured last year, with 533,000 exported from the UK.

    I hope none of the production workers voted for Brexit.
    633,000 manufactured out of global sales of around 77,000,000 or less than 1%.
    Although the number might be appear big in the perspective of the the UK or Australia, it is still a small number globally and 'very few' is not an unreasonable statement.

    The trade implications with Europe post Brexit haven't been finalised but if the UK can produce cars competitively then they could survive. It may even open up sources of components mores cheaply from outside the EU and sales of complete vehicle to countries outside the EU. Depending on the deal the UK Brexit negotiators strike with the EU this isn't necessarily a problem.
    There are 22 European countries that aren't in the EU, most notably, Switzerland, Norway, Russia, (okay, a lot of Russia is in Asia) and they survive. Admittedly a lot of the others are former Soviet states in eastern Europe but the market is not insignificant.

    Anyway this doesn't really have any bearing in Ghosn's escape or the implications of Ghosn's escape. Nissan have a factory in the UK but Brexit or no Brexit it's probably being evaluated as are all Nissan's operations since Nissan/Renault share tumble after November 2018.
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  16. #91
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    Yep. Apparently Nissan are going into a cost cutting mode and that factory in the UK is probably right in the firing line along with many jobs in sales and marketing "in the US and Europe". https://www.caradvice.com.au/823238/...-range-report/
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    Why some should not start a corporate war, but then they expected to win, it just hasn't turned out too well. But we will see.

    ken

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    If Renault's and Nissan's share prices keep heading south at the same rate they are now then they'll be ripe for a takeover.
    Maybe PSA have got some money left after taking over FCA and Opel.
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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    If Renault's and Nissan's share prices keep heading south at the same rate they are now then they'll be ripe for a takeover.
    Maybe PSA have got some money left after taking over FCA and Opel.
    Yes, quite possible. The take over of Nissan by anyone outside of Japan would be the ultimate loss of face for a lot of Nissan management and Japanese politicians I would think. The fall-out from all the earlier inter and intra company machinations is still playing out and must be a massive embarrassment already.
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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    How the mighty hath fallen.
    There was a brief period not long ago where Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi had the top car sales crown and look at them now.
    All because some executives at Nissan were pissed that Renault were running the show and thought they could do better.
    Twenty years ago Nissan were facing bankruptcy and Renault bailed them out. Memories fade and now they could be facing bankruptcy again, all because of pride and saving face.
    Even if Ghosn was skimming a few million Euros, (which we'll probably never see proven in court), it seems very cheap compared to what the alliance have lost since. They might come back but it will be a hard road.
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    Given the attitude of Nissan management in the Ghosn debacle, I would think any foreign company would be very wary of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    Even if Ghosn was skimming a few million Euros, (which we'll probably never see proven in court), it seems very cheap compared to what the alliance have lost since. .
    And even then, as I understand it, the allegation only related to non declaration of payments which would be made after his retirement.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972Ren View Post
    And even then, as I understand it, the allegation only related to non declaration of payments which would be made after his retirement.

    Yes, failing to declare his golden handshake that he hadn't received yet and was conditional anyway so it might not have been paid at all. (Well it doesn't appear it will be paid now so it's good that he hadn't paid tax).
    He's such a naughty boy he should be locked up and they should throw away the key.
    It's the job of the bean-counters to prepare the tax paperwork and to ensure it complies with the laws of the land.
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    For the interested: https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...mogul/11938046
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