Closest sister cars...to french marques
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Default Closest sister cars...to french marques

    its late....and i m tired (been looking at autocad all day long)...but during one of my breaks i was inspired by another thread (uhmm...cough cough)......

    What do u guys think are the closest sister cars to our pugs, rens and cits....?

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    I m of the opinion that Alfas and Volvos come close from certain perspectives...ie philosophy (ie single minded safety as in volvo compares to the Citroen individuality and its persuit of ride comfort and avant garde styling)....
    And driving appeal like some alfas and even beemers.....compared to the likes of the fuego,505,the 205 and the massivelly successfull 306....


    So whats your pick......which ones come close (never close enough)????
    Who r the sister/brother cars?



    cheers

    dino


  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I used to always think along the lines of the VW1500 as a parallel to the early 403...

    It has, after all, roughly the same size 4-cyl engine and an overdrive top gear.

    But it ends there...

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! briz205's Avatar
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    I would say the 205 gti's sister is the mini cooper (the 1960's one), 306 maybe the vw golf, I think 505 maybe a box of wheatbix (looks like one) The 504 was abit of a revolution (still using the suspension today!) A 604 would have have to be a russian tarta, a 404 maybe the austin or what ever it was?? hmm the 307 would be the new corolla, civic um mazda 3. 406 would be a volvo s40. Renault and citroen will have to be handled by someone who knows them abit better.

    nick

  4. #4
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    The Austin A60 or Morris Oxford couldn't be further from it's lookalike 404 style sibling...

    The 404 had an unbreakable front suspension (probably the best in any car ever built with struts!), a modern engine, comfort and ride to burn and several other advantages over the BMC product.

    And if you compare to the Fiat 1800/2000/2100/2300 from the same pininfarina pen, they all had a 6-cyl engine...

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! briz205's Avatar
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    Hey ray,

    Thought someone would take the bait for the 604 rather than the 404! But hey? I know the 404 was a far superior automobile but they do look very similar. Meaning a sister......

    Nick

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the 403 i would compare it closer to the early 190 merc

    the 404 looks like an austin and i'll leave it at that

    the 504 i compare to a 244 volvo with IRS

    the 604 i won't comment

    the 505 i feel was a new skinned 244 volvo (read 504 point)

    bear in mind that these comments are based upon the cars of the era that were all about the same but had their own good or bad points

    why we prefer the frog versions over the other is our choice and others prefer the other makes

    would i have a 190 merc, probably would as i tend to like them

    also the 203 is styled on a pre war chev but scaled down
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    203 and pre-war Chev? No possible resemblence, even taking styling items alone into account!

    Maybe an immediate post-war Chev, but it's a long bow to draw...

    Now if you were to say a Citroen Light 15 looked like a '34 Ford that had been squashed, then you'd be more on the money.

    But again, I don't think you can consider anything without considering the mechanical package, and Henry would have died before he produced a Citroen!

  8. #8
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    ok pre war was a bit too far but definately post war

    the 203 was based upon an american car in style

    it had to be otherwise they would never have even been looked at in showrooms otherwise



    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! DJ-Studd's Avatar
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    Hey Dino, where abouts do you work?

    -- DJ

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    And you pick a 1940 Ford to show the similarity?

    Here's your postwar Chev...



    Again, if we're only talking body shape, anyone ever looked at an XD Falcon and 604?

    And surely you'd have to say that a (yeucchhh...!) Stag was Michelotti's version of the 504 Coupe and Cabriolet?

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! briz205's Avatar
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    How many of us are drafters??? DJ are you a autocader?

    nick

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts gti138's Avatar
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    206 = Proton Satria
    Murray : And there are flames coming from the back of Prost's car as he enters the swimming pool!
    James Hunt: Well that should put them out then!


    Mallala: 1:30.79





  13. #13
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    ..autocad is great for final work...ie last piece of the puzzle.....but when it comes to design...nothing beats pencil and paper.....i m old school...


    yeahhh...i always thought the old finnie merc with the vertical rise speedo grew up in the same playground as the 404......i also agree on the 505 and 244 being of very similar school (505 being streets ahead in ride)...the 244 engine (2.1) would have been a master stroke in a car like the 505....just imagine it....a 505 (2 door) with the turbo 2.1 (volvo) taking on the holden and ford v8 around bathurst.....geez if volvo was made to handle imagine what the 505 chassis could have achieved....


    and lets not leave the fuego out of the picture.....what was the opel we had here for a while that had the fuego looks......came out as a turbo as well...somebody remind me ...my memory is constantly failing me....


    cheers

    dino



  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    <----- Draftsmen

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Reno's Avatar
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    off topic.

    I use Cad for line drawings and 3D modeling.

    Also use Rhino for 3d modelling

    and 3d studio for rendering and animations

    will have an Industrial Design degree at end of the year, although i am oing through to do a post Grad.

    alot more competent in Cad and computer drawing propgrams... then enineers and the like i have encountered.

    I agree hand rendering/drawing is still the best way to establish a basic form, although using computer aided illustrators and modelling tools is a much more sophisticated and better way to illustrate the intricite parts of your product( or article your trying to draw) in ways which pen and paper cant.

    Julian

  16. #16
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    And you pick a 1940 Ford to show the similarity?

    Here's your postwar Chev...



    Again, if we're only talking body shape, anyone ever looked at an XD Falcon and 604?

    And surely you'd have to say that a (yeucchhh...!) Stag was Michelotti's version of the 504 Coupe and Cabriolet?

    and even that has the same or similar style to the 203 and you will probably find it was penned before the 203 as well

    peugeot had to make the 203 very american in style to be able to sell them and if it wasn't for the redex trials and Ken winning by the smallest of margins (but still a win) then the 203 would never have taken off in this country and peugeot would have been further behind

    when you think the 48/215 was a more powerful, stronger, larger and cheaper car than the 203 at the time peugeot had an uphill battle on their hands trying to sell them

    the only thing peugeot had in their favour was their handling prowess and a 4 speed g/box

    anyway that's getting a little off topic
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  17. #17
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    I use autocad as well as civilcad in my work.
    Also agree that for pure creativity ie car shapes etc...
    the software programs don't cut it.

    Now when you guys say that the 203 was similar to american cars in styling
    and that's why it succeeded, you really lose me there. absolutely ridiculous.

    That line was very French at time ie: Traction Avant, Renault 4 cv.

    There was one car that was designed in order to resemble american lines and that is called the "Vedette" check that out.
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Try Pug 404 and Austin FREEWAY. Same Italian designer.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Closest sister cars...to french marques-austin-freeway.jpg   Closest sister cars...to french marques-pug-404.jpg  
    Last edited by BogMaster; 4th June 2004 at 08:40 PM.
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    That line was very French at time ie: Traction Avant, Renault 4 cv.

    Hey what is a 4cv but a better VW????

    Bottom line being that fashion and design have been crossing international boundaries for a very long time...and what's wrong with that?

    Basically I think that original French design tends to be better than most and that the engineering solutions applied by French companies...no matter where they get the styling ideas from are generally streets ahead of the rest.

    Last edited by BogMaster; 4th June 2004 at 08:51 PM.
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  20. #20
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    why.....because it's got the engine in the rear..?

    That's probably the only similarity
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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    No because Louis Renault was not stupid, because he could see that the VW concept was a good one, believed he could improve on it and if he had not been murdered in gaol would have made a mozza out of it.

    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  22. #22
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    looks the same huh.......
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Closest sister cars...to french marques-4cv.jpg   Closest sister cars...to french marques-vw.jpg  
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  23. #23
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Louis Renault went to jail for having collaborated with the Nazis.
    Not a good idea if you want to sell millions of cars to your countrymen.
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    ok pre war was a bit too far but definately post war

    the 203 was based upon an american car in style

    it had to be otherwise they would never have even been looked at in showrooms otherwise



    I dunno what those old cars are in the pics. But I like the look of the grey and red thing, and the black one looks like some old car.

    Louie Renault shouldn't have gone in the can for that blue thing, cos it was cute.
    Last edited by Warwick; 4th June 2004 at 09:38 PM.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    looks the same huh.......
    Well now you mentioned it yep c'est la meme chose.

    Rear engine swing axle, streamlined shape - originated not long after the VW prototype...pretty much the same kind of design/concept copying thing that goes on today really. Why would you expect it to be otherwise? Variations on the same kind of design concept....my guess is that Louis Renault or one of his off siders looked at what was going on in the third Reich with the VW and thought there was merit in the engineering and marketing concepts and decided to address the issue of a peoples car in a similar but unique way - end of story.

    If you think that the 4cv was an original concept then you would be wrong.

    Last edited by BogMaster; 4th June 2004 at 11:17 PM.
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