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Thread: Not Froggy Related (NFR) but may be of interest

  1. #1
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    Default Not Froggy Related (NFR) but may be of interest

    Why, I ask myself, has the 'crew cabin' ute become so popular and totally ubiquitous? I see them absolutely everywhere. Just stood at the lights and five went past in a row, of various makes. Old people buy them, young people buy them, Tradies of course buy them by the score. Why? To me they are neither fish nor fowl. Not a ute nor an SUV. And the rear tray is so small and impractical that you cannot even load a bed, or a wardrobe, or a dirt bike. And it has no security unless you buy a great big lockable canopy. Might as well go with a Van then? Renault Traffic would be a much better option. (snuck in a reference to Renault after all!) Any thoughts about this absurd trend? Are they cheaper? Are they the new status symbol? What is it?

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    They are sensible for many people, particularly tradesmen and rural people. You can carry a family and still have somewhere you can put things that won't fit in a boot or SUV back, like a fuel drum or tools. Few people need to carry a wardrobe or a dirt bike to another location. The people I know with one have used the acquisition to avoid running two vehicles. They are not cheap, as a single vehicle.

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    The very fact that anyone reading your post is on this forum indicates they will struggle with the concept of why these Neanderthal utes on steroids are sold in such huge numbers. I see the biggest selling vehicle in Australia so far this year is the Toyota Hilux, with the Ford Ranger coming in second.!? -
    https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehic...-selling-cars/

    It is the same story in the USA. 1,Ford F Series. 2,Chevrolet Silverardo. 3,Dodge Ram.
    https://www.foxnews.com/auto/the-10-...rucks-and-suvs

    It has to be something to do with Penile Magnitude surely.?

    All these people are not "Tradies" needing such beasts. Even some of the Tradies who have them probably don't need half the capacity of these trucks. The bigger is better mantra demands that all our vehicles are getting bigger but these things are getting ridiculous.
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    COL
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    I think it is versatility. They are not my cuppa tea.

    I find them rough riding and if you have ever sat in the back of them you will find the back seat is rubbish and leg room is almost non existent.
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    Towing capacity
    Robustness and longevity.
    Off road and rough road capable
    Family car size interior
    1 tonne carrying capacity
    Lots of them are indeed used for work

    And they are increasingly car-like as a driving experience, within the parameters of a taller heavier vehicle.
    Whatever the feelings of people who choose otherwise, plainly they suit the people who buy them.

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    The only utes I have experienced that drive like cars are the ones that were based on cars. Holden, Ford, Valiant. And that's it. All the Japanese ones drive and handle like trucks. Small and relatively nimble trucks, but still trucks. And the dual cab utes handle no better than single cab utes. Some of the roads around here have signs advising drivers to slow down because of the rough road. In a car you don't have to slow down. In a ute you do.

    But if you have to carry awkward stuff you need a ute. And if you have to carry kids you need a back seat. If you have to carry both you need a dual cab ute. If you need to carry agricultural chemicals or explosives you are not supposed to carry them in a passenger compartment. There are proposed regulations in Victoria banning the carriage of farm animals in passenger vehicles.

    If you need a dual cab ute you put up with the fact it is neither fish nor fowl. You probably frame is as both fish and fowl, a bit like the duckfish painted by Andre Francois to advertise Citroen's hydropneumatic suspension.

    Roger
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    I think it is versatility. They are not my cuppa tea.

    I find them rough riding and if you have ever sat in the back of them you will find the back seat is rubbish and leg room is almost non existent.
    COL, you are absolutely correct. I did not even mention the compromised back seat. Anyway, I thank all of you for your considered opinions, but I still cannot see any reason why there are so many now. Just do a survey yourself and see. And many of them are 'tricked' out with fancy exhausts and glitter paint, and of course those 'must have' huge aluminium pipe 'handrails' (what are they actually?) behind the cab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breitie View Post
    ........of course those 'must have' huge aluminium pipe 'handrails' (what are they actually?) behind the cab.
    They are no good as handrails, they are too thick and too low, need to small enough in diamater to be able to properly grab them and at least 30 cm higher to be any good as handrails, don't ask me how I know.
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    Good corporate as in public utility companies, carry a crew of four, and sufficient shovels to lean on at the job site, and of course a ladder and plastic tube sewer pipe container to hide and hold all sorts of items, also room for the supervisor to carry a clip board full of important papers and the nice shiny hardhats, and being government, no sales tax and taxpayer funded and fuelled, don't need to be efficient or super comfortable.

    Must have reasonable fleet resale value and quick turnover to keep fleet repairs low.

    Ken

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    Dual cab ute towing capacity? By the time you put five full sized adults, a tank full of fuel and a dog and a bag of cement in the back, they'd be lucky to tow a 6x4 box trailer legally! The sad fact is that as most tradies are not allowed to park on building sites, the 4x4 component is reserved for taking the dirt bikes bush, but as they have dirt bikes, their 4x4's get left on a major road adjacent to the forest/bush etc. A new one every coupla years is a good tax dodge as they are certainly not cheap and to me that is the only benefit. I have a couple of tradie friends who use white unmarked vans as their vehicles of choice, they can carry more, with their goods hidden inside and they don't shout "Hey I'm a tradie, come and pinch my stuff" wherever they are parked........
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    I agree with Roger. There are many dual cab utes out this way and many are well suited to the job they are purchased to meet, but comfortable they are not. Drive like a car.? No chance. I work for a rural supply company and we have many utes and dual cabs on our books for delivering fertiliser, produce and chemicals etc to the growers. As a tool of trade with the added (minor) benefit of being able to squeeze 2 small people in the back seat at times they fit a need but I cannot see the appeal nor the reasoning to "trick them up" in a vain effort to make them look somehow luxurious or practical for a family. And as Kim says the towing capacity is not much better than a small SUV like the Rav4 or Subaru Forester. These are much more family friendly and probably a better buy for many who have these monster utes.
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    With the introduction of air bags it is no longer safe nor legal to carry children in single cab utilities. So if the vehicle is to have a dual function of family transport a twin cab is necessary. The single cab chassis is something of an endangered species and is not often promoted by makers except as a no frills work vehicle. So the dual cab is often little dearer than the single cab. These 4WD utilities are indeed light trucks and are very useful with common payloads of 1.3 tonnes on the standard trays and towing capacities of 3.5 tonnes. They are invaluable on farms and do much of the work that was once done by 4 ton trucks.

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    I donít get it either. Recently we went to the snow. Most of them Iíve ever seen in one place. Funnily enough, all of the dual cab Rangers had racks on top of their tray as the snow boards didnít fit. We parked next to a guy with a Ford Fiesta who removed three snow boards from his hatch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    I And as Kim says the towing capacity is not much better than a small SUV like the Rav4 or Subaru Forester.
    Sorry but that is just not true.
    From a single website which makes the comparisons
    (unbraked/braked towing capacity)

    Forester 750/1800
    Rav 4 500/800 or 1500 for a few models
    Hilux 750/2800
    Dmax 750/3500
    Amarok 750/3000

    If someone or other doesn't understand why different people buy some sort of car, then probably best to ask them, and not people who don't buy them. I personally assume that other car buyers know what works for them, just as I know what works for me. If I don't understand their choices, it probably isn't them that is the idiot.
    Last edited by 1972Ren; 6th September 2019 at 09:40 PM.
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    Vehicles need to fit the purpose for which they are purchased. Such utilities are practical working vehicles. They obviously fill a need for those who purchase them. They are sophisticated pieces of automotive engineering far from Neanderthal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972Ren View Post
    Sorry but that is just not true.
    From a single website which makes the comparisons
    (unbraked/braked towing capacity)

    Forester 750/1800
    Rav 4 500/800 or 1500 for a few models
    Hilux 750/2800
    Dmax 750/3500
    Amarok 750/3000

    If someone or other doesn't understand why different people buy some sort of car, then probably best to ask them, and not people who don't buy them. I personally assume that other car buyers know what works for them, just as I know what works for me. If I don't understand their choices, it probably isn't them that is the idiot.
    Almost all 4x4 vehicles come with a restriction that limits their towing capacity depending on their GVM and their GVM is also limited by the towball weight. Very few vehicles sold here can legally tow 3 or 3.5 tonne trailers at their GVM with a 300kg towball weight. This is a fact.
    Last edited by Kim Luck; 6th September 2019 at 10:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    Vehicles need to fit the purpose for which they are purchased. Such utilities are practical working vehicles. They obviously fill a need for those who purchase them. They are sophisticated pieces of automotive engineering far from Neanderthal.
    Crew Cab 4x4's fulfill the need of wanquers, nothing more. 22 year old tradies generally don't have families and those that do have more than one car, so a single cab ute with a decent tray and the same towing capacity is not only cheaper and more efficient but it doesn't generally require 4x4. If your mates can't get to work without bludging a lift off you change your job or get a better class of mates!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    I wouldnít go as far as sophisticated pieces of engineering. They ride and drive like trucks and accelerate and corner about as well as our 60s Volvo.
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    The dual cab utese are just the fashion at the moment. Since the majority of people are herd animals, they are just following the herd.

    There is an old saying "If you don't know where you are going, any road will lead you there". It seems the dual cab ute is made for these people. Some of these utes even sport a "snorkel" to allow those that prefer spear fishing to line fishing to dive into rivers and chase the fish.

    I was always amused how many people in my younger days eschewed military people because they all dressed in the same uniform. I now look at the parade of dual cabs from the perspective of my 2CV and ponder how perspectives can change.

    John
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    Heavy trailers are four wheeled (or more) and are designed not to put more than 360kg downforce. Like a double horse float or a 4 stand crutching trailer both of which I can legally tow. Do not presume to talk for others. The world is large and complex made up of individuals who all have their own ideas and needs. Australians do not appreciate people who try to tell them how to live (or what sort of vehicles to drive). Perhaps I should ask some farm families who drive four door utes what they think of city experts who call them ******s? Not sophisticated engineering? Do much off road work? Any idea of the evolution of these designs over the last 40 years? They are light load carrying trucks and ride accordingly, have ESC and perform to modern standards. Their drive systems and suspensions have improved markedly over the years. Motor vehicles must meet the demands of their markets and the 4WD utilities are made to satisfy a real demand. This is just city arrogance and ignorance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    The dual cab utese are just the fashion at the moment. Since the majority of people are herd animals, they are just following the herd.

    There is an old saying "If you don't know where you are going, any road will lead you there". It seems the dual cab ute is made for these people. Some of these utes even sport a "snorkel" to allow those that prefer spear fishing to line fishing to dive into rivers and chase the fish.

    I was always amused how many people in my younger days eschewed military people because they all dressed in the same uniform. I now look at the parade of dual cabs from the perspective of my 2CV and ponder how perspectives can change.

    John
    I haven't seen "eschew" used since I read "The Magic Pudding" by Norman Lindsay.

    I rather think they will eschew,
    In future, Puddin’-owners who
    Pass through the simple rural view
    About the town of Tooraloo.’
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    Heavy trailers are four wheeled (or more) and are designed not to put more than 360kg downforce. Like a double horse float or a 4 stand crutching trailer both of which I can legally tow. Do not presume to talk for others. The world is large and complex made up of individuals who all have their own ideas and needs. Australians do not appreciate people who try to tell them how to live (or what sort of vehicles to drive). Perhaps I should ask some farm families who drive four door utes what they think of city experts who call them ******s? Not sophisticated engineering? Do much off road work? Any idea of the evolution of these designs over the last 40 years? They are light load carrying trucks and ride accordingly, have ESC and perform to modern standards. Their drive systems and suspensions have improved markedly over the years. Motor vehicles must meet the demands of their markets and the 4WD utilities are made to satisfy a real demand. This is just city arrogance and ignorance.
    I sold real trucks for a living, big and small, to people who made their living from them. You can have as many crew cab utes as you like, but most of them are now owned by city dwellers rather than country folk, perhaps you haven't been to the big smoke for a while? As JBN says, they are the current fashion accessory for young males who imagine themselves in the Simpson Desert in their dreams..........

    P.S: I guess you have never been put over the scales with your "legal" loads?
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    Actually yes at VicRoads Horsham, no problem. So what should people be driving instead? Old wrist breaking Inters? What else is there on the market that can tow a double horse float or heavy piece of equipment? High clearance, 4WD, capable working in sand and mud and hard going? Carry a ton bulker bag on the back at 100k's? Bit of a hose off and suitable for going to town. Compared to a Landie, have car type comfort and accommodation? All 4WD utes have the same basic parameters and often share designs. There simply is no alternative to the format. I visit the city on a regular basis every decade, last time 2009 so I'm due again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I haven't seen "eschew" used since I read "The Magic Pudding" by Norman Lindsay.

    I rather think they will eschew,
    In future, Puddin’-owners who
    Pass through the simple rural view
    About the town of Tooraloo.’
    Sorry Kim. I just could not manage to squeeze "Tooraloo" into my statement.

    However, upon your prompting and some further imagination on my part, I think that "Tooraloo" is a superb description of dual cab utes - the "toor" indicating that they are touring vehicle and the "loo" because the look shithouse. [ For some of our readers, I appreciate that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and not everyone will share my point of view].

    John
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    To each their own. Our woke city friends can express disgust at our large 4WD's while we will snigger behind our hands at the low plastic nosed SUV's that some actually believe could function beyond the bitumen.
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