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Thread: Not Froggy Related (NFR) but may be of interest

  1. #76
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breitie View Post
    By the way, I saw a humungous six wheeled dual cab ute monster yesterday that had two axles at the back and a proper full size loading tray.
    Now that is what I call a 'man-sized' ute and something I could live with. If I had a use for it.
    So now the pecking order is that the Dodge Ram eats utes for breakfast and that monster you saw eats Dodge Rams for breakfast.

    Whatever happened to Kelloggs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    There is no standard for roof strength in Australia so vehicles including four wheel drive utes perform badly in that area. As the polished bars are rarely properly mounted their assistance in a rollover is limited. They look good though and are useful when spotlighting. I have no idea why people buy the cars they do and really it's their decision. I'm sure the car makers conduct market research so they may be able to illuminate you.
    hi Russell, My boss at work has a 12month old ranger twin cab company vehicle which a couple of us get to drive,he swears by it reckons it drives great,i reckon its a pile of crap to drive,its a truck with little road feel.He is a Toyota land cruiser 80 series man and bought his son one twelve months ago as his first car,lift kit,big wheels,bigger turbo fitted and he reckons its the best for their use (his son is an apprentice carpenter).When I began suggesting to get his son to drive some other vehicles to get a bit better road feel for him it was met with negative reactions and that the 80 series is the best car on the road.with this I stated that our children(now with families of their own)were learning to drive they all drove different vehicles to get a sense of what was a reasonable car ride/handling and what was crap,and yes most were Renault or Peugeot but did include Mitsubishi L200 4x4 ute,hi ace van.I stated that our daughters car was a 505 gr and he said they were a piece of crap,my response was had he ever driven one which he hadn,t so with that I told him he didn,t have a clue about ride and handling.my comment to him that my old 1968 mazda 1000 mpa coupe would be a safer car in a rollover than his sons 80 series tin can was met again with disbelief,so with that I do not discuss his 4x4,s with him as I realise he is set in what he and his family believe are perfect cars for their needs and that is their choice.........just a thought or two.........jim
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  3. #78
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    My father has an 80 series landcruiser. Yes, it is high, and high COG vehicles have a fundamentally higher rollover risk, assuming the driver is such a numbskull as to not adjust their driving in accordance to the vehicle. But it feels just fine on the road, and if anyone said it drives like a truck, I would consider that prejudice. A rollover is one sort of prang, but Monash Uni research has shown conclusively that medium size 4wds are the safest cars to be in, followed by large 4wds, and large sedans after that. The landcruiser also unequivocally gives a greater sense of trust that it will start and get you there, than anything else I have ever driven. 300,000km, and honestly it might as well be a new car.

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    Yes Jim the 505 was one of the safest cars on the Australian road as found by real life crashes.

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    Ford is currently developing a car-based ute prototype here in Australia https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/ford-focus-ute
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972Ren View Post
    My father has an 80 series landcruiser. Yes, it is high, and high COG vehicles have a fundamentally higher rollover risk, assuming the driver is such a numbskull as to not adjust their driving in accordance to the vehicle. But it feels just fine on the road, and if anyone said it drives like a truck, I would consider that prejudice. A rollover is one sort of prang, but Monash Uni research has shown conclusively that medium size 4wds are the safest cars to be in, followed by large 4wds, and large sedans after that. The landcruiser also unequivocally gives a greater sense of trust that it will start and get you there, than anything else I have ever driven. 300,000km, and honestly it might as well be a new car.
    H
    Hi 1972 Ren, Numbskull is the operative word for my bosses son and for the majority of large 4x4 vehicles drivers who tend to tailgate and don,t seem to realise the speed limit applies to them also, and to me the thought of at least 400kg of unsprung weight either end of the vehicle (not taking into account the huge wheels) being live axles does not constitute a nice driving vehicle to me
    ..............just a couple of thoughts..........jim
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972Ren View Post
    My father has an 80 series landcruiser. Yes, it is high, and high COG vehicles have a fundamentally higher rollover risk, assuming the driver is such a numbskull as to not adjust their driving in accordance to the vehicle. But it feels just fine on the road, and if anyone said it drives like a truck, I would consider that prejudice. A rollover is one sort of prang, but Monash Uni research has shown conclusively that medium size 4wds are the safest cars to be in, followed by large 4wds, and large sedans after that. The landcruiser also unequivocally gives a greater sense of trust that it will start and get you there, than anything else I have ever driven. 300,000km, and honestly it might as well be a new car.
    From your comments most of us would deduce that neither you or your father have driven a new car in a very long time!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    For serious bush work the Land Cruiser is well regarded but expensive. Forty years ago they were indeed quite truck like but the modern ones are easy to drive. Obviously not designed primarily as a suburban cruiser but can cope with both city and country. But then again it's a decade since I've driven in a city. Country drivers should wear hats and always get tooted. Except when they've got red plates and aerials or better still a large red vehicle. A 4x4 Hino fire truck is surprisingly comfortable in traffic and driven with no hesitation controls the road.

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    I think the Japs made a translation mistake when the named it 'Land Cruiser' instead of the more apt 'Land Bruiser'
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
    Stephen Hawking

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    I think the Japs made a translation mistake when the named it 'Land Cruiser' instead of the more apt 'Land Bruiser'
    Speaking of Japanese cars and translation difficulties .... there was the Mitsubishi Starion, which urban legend has it was supposed to have been named Stallion (to compete with the Ford Mustang), but the difficulty many Japanese have with pronouncing the letter "L" got in the way ...

    Who knows if this is true, but it is a good story!

    ian.

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    Like many car names Land Cruiser is lifted - it was an old Studebaker moniker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    From your comments most of us would deduce that neither you or your father have driven a new car in a very long time!
    Thanks for your stupid comment. No, it is not a car, but nor is it a truck. Even at 21 years old, it is very comfortable on highways, and quite capable of following all the cars on the road, around corners at legal speeds. If you want a sports car, then you buy one, but these vehicles are not trucks, any more than is your Koleos . Especially not with 4 wheel coil springs, and the newer ones have airbags everywhere, ABS, etc one finds in a car.

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    Must be hard to buy an argument these days but keep trying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Must be hard to buy an argument these days but keep trying.
    Hi,
    As far as I can see, there are some getting about here who freely give them away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    .... the fact that you drive an unwieldy and unnecessarily heavy vehicle, with a turning circle the size of the MCG.
    Lets see...BT50. kerb to kerb 12.4m

    Koleos 11.6

    Hmm, Maybe don't mention the turning circle when comparing to a Koleos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972Ren View Post
    Hi,
    As far as I can see, there are some getting about here who freely give them away.
    Such as are your habitual thoughts, such also will be the character of your mind; for the soul is dyed by the thoughts.

    Marcus Aurelius Antoninus
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    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Horses for courses. Try the turning circle on a 4x4 Hino. A Koleos fits a certain need and good luck to you but apart from the fact I've never seen one it is not a class intended for heavy off road work. Which is why they are not used for that and are not comparable to work utilities. Compare vehicles to others of the same class. Four wheel drive technology is interesting and has been around a long time. The Japanese vehicles have never been at the forefront of 4x4 technology but are much more advanced than they were. The Koleos drive technology is far from exceptional but suits its market.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Lets see...BT50. kerb to kerb 12.4m

    Koleos 11.6

    Hmm, Maybe don't mention the turning circle when comparing to a Koleos.
    From practical experience on one-lane tracks the Koleos uses less than half a forest to turn around in and because it is significantly lighter than a BT50 will not get bogged doing so.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    Horses for courses. Try the turning circle on a 4x4 Hino. A Koleos fits a certain need and good luck to you but apart from the fact I've never seen one it is not a class intended for heavy off road work. Which is why they are not used for that and are not comparable to work utilities. Compare vehicles to others of the same class. Four wheel drive technology is interesting and has been around a long time. The Japanese vehicles have never been at the forefront of 4x4 technology but are much more advanced than they were. The Koleos drive technology is far from exceptional but suits its market.
    The Koleos drive-train is considerably more technologically advanced than the drive-train of a 70 series Landcruiser or a Hino firetruck and is what enables me to give "real" 4x4 owners the shits!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972Ren View Post
    My father has an 80 series landcruiser. Yes, it is high, and high COG vehicles have a fundamentally higher rollover risk, assuming the driver is such a numbskull as to not adjust their driving in accordance to the vehicle. But it feels just fine on the road, and if anyone said it drives like a truck, I would consider that prejudice. A rollover is one sort of prang, but Monash Uni research has shown conclusively that medium size 4wds are the safest cars to be in, followed by large 4wds, and large sedans after that. The landcruiser also unequivocally gives a greater sense of trust that it will start and get you there, than anything else I have ever driven. 300,000km, and honestly it might as well be a new car.
    Not disputing Monash University research, but all statistics are dependent upon what is measured. In Finland, the 2CV was rated as one of the safest cars. Their statistics were based upon car make/model and injuries/death. If you don't get into an accident in the first place, you quickly make your way towards the top of the charts.

    OK, in the case of a 2CV, most accidents are over before the deuche gets there to participate.
    Secondly, the car carries negligible weight into an accident, tend to bounce off most things. For the same reason, they are easily pushed out of the way, they don't hold their ground and fight.
    Thirdly they are just about impossible to roll because they have very low centre of gravity and NO anti roll bars.
    Top Gear can't even get them to roll unless they position them sideways behind a B747 engine at full blast.
    Finally and most importantly, no 2CV driver wants to be in a car crash. The car has no automation, no side intrusion bars, no specific crumple zones (the whole car being the crumple zone). The sanity of 2CV drivers is questionable to say the least.

    In the end, irreverent 2CV drivers fear the hereafter and God doesn't want Heaven to be cluttered by heaps of junk.

    John

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    This is just a general observation about life, but good God some people have themselves on.

    Thanks
    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972Ren View Post
    This is just a general observation about life, but good God some people have themselves on.

    Thanks
    Andy
    Perhaps you should come down from "Australia" and I could show you what I mean?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Kim, what you think is your business and I'm pleased you like your re-badged Nissan but in the world of real 4x4's it is not as advanced or capable off road as a forty year old Lada Niva. Serious 4x4 technology has a long history with the war being an impetus. Hans Ledwinka at Tatra, Studebaker and Willys in America, later Rover, Harry Ferguson, Steyr and UAZ all made serious contributions to the technology. The NATO Benz 4x4's once produced by Peugeot use Steyr drive technology and are very good. A Land Rover can still be hunted through the bush without fear of underbody damage. These cross over four wheel drives have long plastic noses, terrible approach angles and often light sheet steel underbody plates. Nothing wrong with them unless people use them inappropriately and then they can disappoint as badly as a Toyota Tercel.
    All vehicles can be damaged in heavy off road work and it's important to know their weaknesses. Bog a Hino up to its belly in mud and you have to strip the brakes. Some vehicles wreck CV boots when bogged. (Few have guards). Modern lightweight French cars have to be delicately handled to unbog without damage. Sump guards need to be plate steel preferably case hardened. The HiLux and Prado have exposed transfer cases and can be damaged.
    Light SUV's are just not taken into those conditions by serious operators.
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