Koni Sports over The Standard Peugeot Shocks
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 3 123 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 73
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: Koni Sports over The Standard Peugeot Shocks

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Mitch Mi16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    568

    Default Koni Sports over The Standard Peugeot Shocks

    Hi guys, it's been a while.

    Been talking to Ray about some Koni Sport Shocks... just wanted to get some ideas from people..

    Just wondering if getting the Koni shocks will give me a better ride, then on the standard shocks..

    If anyone has the Koni's, can you tell me what you think.. Just want to make sure i'm doing the right thing, and not losing any handling characteristics!!

    Also does anyone know the Price (Approx) for a set of the Standard shocks??

    Cheers,

    Advertisement


    Mitch
    THE MAD PUGGA

    1989 405 Mi16 (PGT-405)

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Poo-Go's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,420

    Default

    G'day Mitch,

    PM Cal. He's running a setup that he's very happy with. I think it's Koni yellows on the rear and original Peugeot shocks on the front. I think he also has different springs (Eibach?). Or you could do a search of past posts, I'm pretty sure he's mentioned his setup a few times.

    James.
    Care factor = -273.15șC

  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223

    Default

    Mitch, there's a thread about the Koni Yellows in the Performance forum...

    Koni Yellow Shocs

    Many of the guys who've bought them have subsequently posted. But most have been for 205s... check it out and see who else got them for the Mi16...

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Mi16
    Hi guys, it's been a while.

    Been talking to Ray about some Koni Sport Shocks... just wanted to get some ideas from people..

    Just wondering if getting the Koni shocks will give me a better ride, then on the standard shocks..

    If anyone has the Koni's, can you tell me what you think.. Just want to make sure i'm doing the right thing, and not losing any handling characteristics!!

    Also does anyone know the Price (Approx) for a set of the Standard shocks??

    Cheers,

    Mitch

    Hi Mitch,

    I've got a set of Koni Yellows- 3 way adjustable (thanks R.B.) & Eibach springs on a Series 1 Mi16.

    Ride is 'choppier', especially when the road surface is poor.

    As the car is re-speced for club racing, I"m happy with the poorer road, better track characteristics of the suspension.

    Would I put the Koni/Eibach on a std Mi16?-No (unless the OEM shocks are unavailable or over-the-top expensive).

    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    I've heard that the Peugeot front shocks, such as the ones on the gti6 have some weird technology that adjusts damping depending on either speed or travel (I'm not sure which). Does anyone know anything more about this, and how the system actually works as I'm very interested in the technology behind it.

    cheers,
    Jude
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! mi16_weapon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    croydon, sydney
    Posts
    295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    I've heard that the Peugeot front shocks, such as the ones on the gti6 have some weird technology that adjusts damping depending on either speed or travel (I'm not sure which). Does anyone know anything more about this, and how the system actually works as I'm very interested in the technology behind it.

    cheers,
    Jude
    as i understand it, Peugeot are the only manufacturer in the world that make their own shockies.

    They use a variable rate damping system, which effectively uses different damping rates, depending on the speed of the bump.

    The way i saw it was this:

    They use a series of valves, differing in size from smaller to larger, somehow when you hit a bump at slow speed, the smaller valves are used, giving a slower, smoother response. When hitting a bump at high speed though, the larger valves come into play and allow the wheel to move much quicker.

    not a very clear description, and probably completely wrong, but it was explained to me once and it made sense then!
    1992 mi16
    Toyota aware driver
    there are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots..

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Mitch Mi16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    568

    Default

    OK so which Eibach Springs are suitable... the Pro Kit, or the Sports..

    I was thinking with sticking with the OEM spring for the moment.. then when i get some cash get some eibach..

    Also got to figure out wether i can afford the Koni's.. just wanted to ask people who use them.

    i'm gonna give Paul V a call to see if he can give me a price on the OEM's if it's worth it i'll get the koni's.. I guess the other question is will i lose any perfomance in the handling putting the Koni's on there for regular driving. Or will it be better than the OEM Shocks. I don't want to get these shocks then to find out i could have got the Standard shocks to be better..

    Thanks Jeff i'll take that into consideration.. So for regular road driving you wouldn't put them on, but for track use you would?

    Thanks Ray, i'll look at those posts.

    And i'll PM Calk, to ask him a few questions!!
    THE MAD PUGGA

    1989 405 Mi16 (PGT-405)

  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223

    Default

    It's a funny one, this business about automatic adjustment of the damping...

    Simply because they flow oil through holes means they have this capacity...

    The resistence to the flow of the oil is heightened by the speed of the flow. So there is more damping force generated at higher amplitudes. The difference that Peugeot and Koni have is that they tend to use smaller holes, so the acceleration of the resistence is higher. That, of course, can be balanced by using different valve springing etc.

    They could, of course, be talking about the Ricor patented 'inertia valve' setup, this being used by Edelbrock in their dampers.

    pgti6... I've recommended to Mitch that he leave the springs alone... so that's not quite the same scenario.

    It would be nice to be able to put everyone in a car fitted with what they want, but understandably impractical. That said, I am sure that there will be no loss of roadability with the Sport Konis and standard springs on an Mi16.

    For a standard 405, I would say that the Sport Konis would detract from roadability, however...

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! jfn180's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    725

    Default

    hi mitch

    was that you 2 weeks ago i saw in riverwood on saturday around 3pm,i was in my black 206
    97`black 306 style sold JFN 306
    04 Black 206 GTI 180 JFN 180 FOR SALE
    I HATE V8 LANDCRUISERS


    WEST TIGERS= PREMIERS 05

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! tasgill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Toowoomba
    Posts
    290

    Default

    I could be wrong, but isnt it only the rear shocks that have the variable dampening depending on severity of the bump. And Ray, I understand what you are saying, but the way I read the Peugeot blurb on the way the shocks operate is that there is a choice of four orifice sizes for the oil to use given a certain set of conditions.
    Not that I necessarily believe manufacturers claims..

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Mitch Mi16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    568

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jfn306
    hi mitch

    was that you 2 weeks ago i saw in riverwood on saturday around 3pm,i was in my black 206

    Yeah that probably would have been me... I'm pretty sure i was down that way at a mates place a couple of weeks back!!
    THE MAD PUGGA

    1989 405 Mi16 (PGT-405)

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! DJ-Studd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    545

    Default

    I have Koni Yellows on the front of my 205 GTI. I will be moving back to genuine Peugeot shocks as soon as I get the money.

    The ride is reasonably hard, however as I have the standard shocks in the back the ride isn't balanced and thus it's too easy to push the rear end out.
    Also, when hitting a crappy part of road at speed the konis tend to jump the car around, literally. Fortunately not to the extent that the car leaves the lane, but on a really tight corner you wouldn't have control back soon enough to take it right around.

    I can see how the Konis would be great for track (Atleast one with a great surface), however they don't cut it for fanging around the mountainside, especially not with an unbalanced suspension setup (Koni front, Peugeot rear).


    = Koni
    = Peugeot

    -- DJ



    Edit: What is your favourate aspect of the 205? For me it's the handling. I won't deny that there are plenty of performance cars out there that will drag off a 205. What's so special about the 205 is it's handling, which was created with the stock suspension setup. Which would suit the car better... genuine shockers and springs that Peugeot spent millions on to engineer them correctly FOR THE CAR or $300 shockers that were probably designed for yank cars? I know what my answer is!
    Last edited by DJ-Studd; 4th June 2004 at 02:17 PM.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Mitch Mi16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    568

    Default

    hmm, well thats something to think about.. But the koni's i will be getting are adjustable, are they the ones you are saying are to Hard???

    Also i wouldn't want to mix and match shocks or springs!!! I have the same shocks all round, and same with the springs all round.. (Not meaning both shocks and springs by the same manufacturer) I think would that would be asking for trouble unless already proven!!
    THE MAD PUGGA

    1989 405 Mi16 (PGT-405)

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! DJ-Studd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    545

    Default

    The Konis are adjustable, yes - That isn't the issue. I have mine on the softest settings yet they are hardly suitable for road use; as I said earlier, I'll be moving to genuines as soon as I can.

    If the Mi16 was for track use only then sure, I'd definately go for the Koni. They're designed for those kinds of applications.

    Considering Peugeot are the only company in the world afaik that design their own suspension entirely (Even mazda are using Peugeot suspension on some of their cars!), using Konis that were not SPECIFICALLY designed for the car would be detrimental to the handling.

    Peugeot's suspension is designed for driving on REAL roads!

    I'll let you make the decision, but PLEASE take this into consideration!

    -- DJ

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,335

    Default

    The 205's set up is good but the springs were too soft and therefore the body roll slowed the cornering speed down.

    The car in question, however, is a Mi16 and that is a different story. Mith the thing is to try out a car with a stiffer set up and see if you like it. If it's your everyday driver then i wouldn't reccomend it. If it's your project car then go off son.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! MondeoST24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    121

    Default

    I ran Spax adjustables in the front of my S16 with standard rear shocks. I liked that set up as it got rid of the nose lifting when you floored it. IMHO the handling was improved and it didn't upset the balance (the tail could be drifted around corners controllably etc.)

    I run Koni Sports in my Mondeo- they're the yellow top adjustable ones. They are a very firm shock, even on the softest setting and definitely geared towards handling over ride comfort. The adjustment varies the rebound only- not the compression (which not many people realise.) I don't mind the firm ride as the factory shock on my ST24 were s**t and gave a worse ride with crap handling. Koni top adjustables are big $$$$ budget for around $1000 or more without fitting.

    Have you thought about the Bilstein B6 instead of Koni? They give very good handling whilst maintaining an excellent ride from my experiences with them. They're not adjustable, but realistically speaking you don't really need it unless you want to fine tune the handling.
    David
    Former 306 S16 owner- now own a Mondeo ST24 V6

  17. #17
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223

    Default

    The Koni yellows that are listed for the Mi16 are the only Konis listed for that model... whereas many other models the yellows are listed as a sport option.

    I think this might make a bit of difference...

    And believe me, Koni make their shocks for road use.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! MondeoST24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    121

    Default

    Yes, Ray the yellow sports version has a firmer damping range than the normal reds. There's a graph on the Koni site somewhere illustrating it. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone wanting ride comfort over handling!

    I actually preferred my Spaxs, although it is hard to compare without having them both on the same vehicle. They also had a 10 detent setting unlike the Koni's that have a "turn it and guess" system.
    David
    Former 306 S16 owner- now own a Mondeo ST24 V6

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    152

    Default

    I have never fiddled with shocks in my front drive Peugeots so my next comments relate exclusively to 504s and 505s, what I and others have found time and again is that Koni's are inferior to the factory original 505 GTI units. These comments include the twin turbo 505 often referred to in AF.

    What we have found is that for performance and service life the standard GTI units are superior, this includes fitting Konis wearing them out and going back to the real McCoy. This opinion comes from many kilometres and many years of track based competition. We considerabley upgraded the springs to lower and stiffen the car for competition purposes.

    The variable valving is no great mystery, Peugeot shock pistons have a series of valves, 4 for each direction with springs of different characteristics, depending on the action of the damper these valves come into play as necessary. I have tried fiddling with the valving and altering oil viscosity but I have found that standard is best. This is an unusual position for me, I seldom leave cars standard.
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

  20. #20
    Cal
    Cal is offline
    Moderator Cal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    1,624

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LookingforMi16
    PM Cal. He's running a setup that he's very happy with. I think it's Koni yellows on the rear and original Peugeot shocks on the front. I think he also has different springs (Eibach?). Or you could do a search of past posts, I'm pretty sure he's mentioned his setup a few times.

    James.
    I took the advice of Gerald Cullen who has run his Mi16 at Targa many times. The combination he suggested is as James metioned above. New Pug shocks at the front with progressive Eibach spring (sorry don't know which ones) and Koni yellows on the rear. These were set at the middle of the the 3 stiffness settings. I run this setup with a set of 16" 206 GTi wheels. It is hard for me to comment this compared to standard as the shocks and springs I replaced were the originals with 180000kms on them. I certainly don't think it is too stiff or bumpy. I might be with Koni yellows on the front though. The handling is superb with just a hint of oversteer on a trailing throttle. The car has no problem staying with Brad's S16 or even 205 GTi's on club runs. I also use the car to tow a trailer with 2 karts and loads of other stuff when we go racing. For this reason I left the rear at the standard ride height.

    Cheers,

    Cal.
    Last edited by Cal; 7th June 2004 at 01:18 PM.
    1995 Mazda MX5 - 2F Race Car
    1990 Mercedes 300TE
    1990 Mercedes 230E
    1977 Jaguar XJS V12
    1971 Morris Mini 1100K
    1967 Porsche 911S
    1957 Porsche 356A Speedster Replica

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! Mitch Mi16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    568

    Default

    Well i'll most likely go for the koni's with standard springs.. i'm not too fused about a comfort ride... but i don't want too rattle my brains out... during the winter i'll be doing a fair few highway km's i think!!
    so i guess it will be ok!!
    Thanks for all the responses, keep some more coming if you have any more takes..
    THE MAD PUGGA

    1989 405 Mi16 (PGT-405)

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    409

    Default

    i am at a loss with the suspension in these weird torsion rear end frogs that some of us have. all i know is that my Xsara heels-over (body-roll) quite considerably at 105km/h through the S's near holden elizabeth (kettering? road).

    Every one says 'too soft springs maite', but wouldnt i be better off replacing the anti-roll bars. i have heard these are the first things that should be changed. ?

    if so to what values without exaggerating the lift-off over-steer or causing it to understeer. what is the standard diameter. the sport 25mm ones sound like they're for track only.

  23. #23
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223

    Default

    Go with better damping first...

    That will continue to allow the wheels to grip the road, anti-roll bars tend to help pick up inside wheels.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,516

    Default

    Ray,
    he didnt say he has traction problems.

    Stiffer swaybar normally fixes the body roll issue without compromising the ride comfort. The problem is that if the Xsara has the same setup as the 205/306 you are locked into the rear suspension "kit" where you have to replace the whole thing to change ride stiffness or the roll. Wonder if it wouldbe possible to fit an aftermarket swaybar there?
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


  25. #25
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223

    Default

    I never intimated he did have traction problems... what I suggested was that he would get them with a sway bar.

    Ask anyone setting up a race car what's the first thing they do to reduce understeer. They will tell you they tighten up the rear sway bar. This degrades the rear end's traction and that means they have less understeer.

    Do you follow that?

Page 1 of 3 123 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •