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Thread: More reasons to accelerate BEV options

  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    I somehow think that I won't be buying an EV, too much a posers purchase, with some virtue signalling "rights" as they spend accumulated hoards of money for all the other indulgent things of life. Pots of money and you can do that I suppose I could perhaps see myself assembling an adaptation of an electric car as a hobby though if the regulations and strictions were waived

    Ken
    Some people ‘pose’ in a Mustang or a Lamborghini or a Ferrari or an AMG or an M whatever.

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  2. #352
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    Imagine a lifetime of battery cars and someone coming up with the idea of manufacturing a complex piece of machinery that required a fuel to be sourced from deep under the sea, transported to a massive facility the size of a city block in order to make the filthy black goo compatible with the complicated machine and which needed constant fiddling with by expensive technicians at more cost than you could afford.
    Try selling that as a more humble means of transport.


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  3. #353
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    Icon10 Reading the tea leaves and living contentment.!!

    Originally Posted by Nagaman
    Some people ‘pose’ in a Mustang or a Lamborghini or a Ferrari or an AMG or an M whatever.


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    I guess if they have the money the passion, that floats their boat, good luck to them, and no need to virtue signal unless they feel guilty about their passion, they can always sell up and buy some virtue if they can afford that too. I'm lucky too I don't feel one smidgeon of guilt one way or the other

    Ken

  4. #354
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    Default More reasons to accelerate BEV options

    Tesla plans to make it’s own batteries -
    https://electrek.co/2019/06/12/tesla...-maxwell-tech/

    Why not start here?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I bought my new Koleos Diesel in 2009, before the first Nissan Leaf was introduced. It will last me long into my eighties, at which point I will probably switch to a wheelchair, something that has an even lower carbon footprint than an EV. And you?
    That’s great!

    It illustrates the elec car situation perfectly.

    Many waving the flag. Few willing to pay a hefty premium, in both cost and inconvenience, for a product not yet properly developed.
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  6. #356
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    A lot of people are hoping Australia won’t be ready for a very long time.
    Tell ‘em they’re dreamin’.
    We are takers not makes anymore.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CC1701 View Post
    That’s great!

    It illustrates the elec car situation perfectly.

    Many waving the flag. Few willing to pay a hefty premium, in both cost and inconvenience, for a product not yet properly developed.
    You've completely missed the point. I told you I had already bought my last new car ten years ago. A conscious decision to buy a long lasting diesel powered product. I was happy to pay a premium in cost and for the inconvenience of having to acquire the skill to identify a diesel fuel bowser......
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    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Right now, Lamborghini's, Maserati's, Bentley's, Rolls Royce's and Ferrari's don't make economic sense to own either, but people still buy them. For people that commute from the burbs to the inner city every workday and who have a social conscience, an EV makes perfect sense. If it comes at a premium, then so be it. Nothing says exclusivity like an EV.......
    Which one have you got? EV /social conscience
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
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    I no longer commute, I'm not into exclusivity and my social conscience is worn out after the last election.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC1701 View Post
    That’s great!

    It illustrates the elec car situation perfectly.

    Many waving the flag. Few willing to pay a hefty premium, in both cost and inconvenience, for a product not yet properly developed.
    And why would expect a person to shell out their hard earned on product not really up to the the task they need it to do ?

    Would I buy an EV now: hell no they aren't a practical proposition.

    Would I consider purchasing one, in say 5 years : yes probably.

    Sometimes common business sense trumps buying an under developed product.
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  11. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    And why would expect a person to shell out their hard earned on product not really up to the the task they need it to do ?

    Would I buy an EV now: hell no they aren't a practical proposition.

    Would I consider purchasing one, in say 5 years : yes probably.

    Sometimes common business sense trumps buying an under developed product.
    All due respect, Rob, the development of the electric vehicle has been going on for longer than than that of the I/C variety. What has not been well developed until recently is the humble box of electrons called a battery. Electric motors seem to be well up to the task, power storage has not been. The products on sale now have had many years of development and perform as advertised. Manufacturers like Nissan and Tesla have well over ten years of research and development and their latest iterations are not something to be sneezed at.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    You commented about Asia. Does it matter, anyway? It shows what the market wants, and in absence of legislation like in the EU, that is what we buy.

    I mentioned Japan for innovation, anyway. Selling is another story and the two don't really meet. Innovative thinking gets you bankrupt, ask Panhard, Citroen, and so on.
    No I didn't. You are as bad as some others! Here is what I said:

    "I'm old enough to remember when anything that came out of Japan was simply a copy of a western product. Nissan was Austin, Hino was Renault, etc. Japanese products were regarded as markedly inferior products back in the fifties......."

    Specifically Japan, not Korea or "Asia"!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly, innovation has never been any oriental car makers forte.......

    That is what you commented.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I bought my new Koleos Diesel in 2009, before the first Nissan Leaf was introduced. It will last me long into my eighties, at which point I will probably switch to a wheelchair, something that has an even lower carbon footprint than an EV. And you?
    Surely, the transition will be to an electric wheelchair, Kim?

    Cheers.
    2004 Scenic I 2.0 auto (Hers)
    2016 Ford Territory (His)
    2004 WRX (Sunday car)

  15. #365
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    Manufacturers like Nissan and Tesla have well over ten years of research and development and their latest iterations are not something to be sneezed at.
    I'm not sneering (or sneezing).

    I'm stating simply stating that a Biscuit barrel like a Nissan leaf, with less that 250 km range (when the battery is new)
    nor high priced, gold plated, Tesla ,which fails the affordably criteria are suitable for my needs.

    Obviously neither float your boat for that matter since you still drive a Koleos diesel.
    Last edited by robmac; 13th June 2019 at 03:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    "a Biscuit barrel like a Nissan leaf
    robmac! I'm shocked!
    Calling a Nissan Leaf a Biscuit Barrel... that's overly optimistic :-)

    We had the "experience" of driving a renter last year. Biscuit Barrel owners would be mortified to have their precious tins compare to it.
    Its not that its elec or anything, its just an awful, awful mode of - what could loosely be called - transportation:- crippling seats (those sitting in the front fare even worse), suspension that bangs you about around town then floats like a yacht on the motorway (there's a corner coming, man the jib), the dash "ProPilot" and interior layout is straight from the planet Zelta (where they are blessed with 6 arms, each 2 meters long, with five joints) and a woeful climate system that struggles to defog the windows because it doesn't want to waste power running the a/c compressor. Hardly surprising they're not a big seller.

    One of the rental guys was saying that, in jp (probably different here and other markets), the Leaf comes without a battery pack when you buy it. You then lease the battery pack from Nissan, who swap it out for a "New-refurbished" one at service time. Hmmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC1701 View Post
    robmac! I'm shocked!
    Calling a Nissan Leaf a Biscuit Barrel... that's overly optimistic :-)...........................We had the "experience" of driving a renter last year. Biscuit Barrel owners would be mortified to have their precious tins compare to it.
    What an interesting choice of a rental car for someone so apparently in love with EV's.......

    The Leaf is the best selling EV in Norway, where they never need a heater or demister......

    Nissan grew their EV sales by 95% last year......
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    That is what you commented.
    Innovation and Quality are unrelated. I said Asia has not been an innovator. I said nothing about their quality.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Innovation and Quality are unrelated. I said Asia has not been an innovator. I said nothing about their quality.
    Japanese products were regarded as markedly inferior products back in the fifties......."
    Post #325 (by Yourself) in this very thread.

    You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court.
    Last edited by robmac; 13th June 2019 at 07:13 PM.

  20. #370
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    Japanese quality perception is now faithfully tracked by China and its automotive production.
    It takes a long time for education to seep through.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    ... when anything that came out of Japan was simply a copy of a western product. Nissan was Austin, Hino was Renault, etc.
    There was a Datsun [nee Nissan] that was 'heavily' modeled on the Austin 7, in the 30's. The British virtually game them the plans, or so the story goes. They only made them for a few years, from memory. Later Datsun built a version of the BMC A series engine under licence.
    Hino built Renaults (was it cars or trucks?) under licence briefly in the 50's.

    Nothing much really changes in the auto industry.

    The distinction is, 'supplied to' and 'manufactured under licence' are different from copying.

    That said, Japanese industry was copying every western product they could get their hands on since the early 1900's until their economy reached maturity in the mid 70's and resources were available to kick start the innovation that lead to their industrial dominance in the 90's. Just ask the Americans how unprepared they were for the abrupt rise and development of japanese industry.

    Oh, my comments on alternative energy vehicles is driven from experience of actual, real world use, experiencing and exploring all varieties. It great you are passionate for alternative energy vehicles, we certainly need them. Having a young family, I'm all for saving the world so they too can enjoy it.

    As before, I'm of the view, that at this time Hybrid represents the best compromise until other, hopefully better, technology or options mature. In the interim, just like you, i don't want to be using my hard earned money to buy a product, today, that doesn't suit my needs or lifestyle. Others may and that's their journey.

    Others have different views to mine. Different views encourage debate, from which new ideas and new ways of thinking can occur.

    In a very broad sense (Qualifier: don't take this too literally) As has been pointed out, the whole idea of cars is near ludicrous, here in the land gone under (especially Melbourne) public transport is woeful [why are we so far behind?]. Even new tunnels, trains and overpasses they are building will be only adequate to relieve the congestion we have now. In a few short years, the systems will be overwhelmed. It's apparent that 'transport' allows us to do great things, but at great cost. I believe, we need to rethink transport, both personal and public, to create a sustainable, viable future for our kids and their kids.

    Hybrid (there are 4 in our extended family btw), I think, is a good interim measure. Kudos to Toyota for developing it and getting it accepted, but we need something else, better, smarter (and probaly starting with an "i" so people will buy it :-). Given the life-cycle cost and total environmental impact, its hard to see it as bevs as a viable alternative to save the world. A step? Perhaps.

    For those who are passionate about evs, stop talking and start buying, Now. Then maybe they'll get better and cheaper. If you believe and don't buy, its not really helping to further the cause, is it?.

    Yes these post are long. So please read carefully to avoid misunderstanding the content.

    This is probably enough ranting in this thread and desisting is a good idea. (Google Translate: I'll stop now :-)
    Last edited by CC1701; 13th June 2019 at 08:03 PM.

  22. #372
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    Wouldn’t it be nice if we could actually see and even test drive an EV.
    Wouldn’t it be nice if supply was such that there was (also) price competition.
    Wouldn’t it be nice if we had acknowledgment of, and policy support for, the coming change few Australians are remotely aware of.
    You have to wonder why PSA would bother giving us any sort of priority in their EV plans.
    Maybe Inchcape/Subaru doesn’t want PSA EVs for the conflict it might represent.


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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Post #325 (by Yourself) in this very thread.

    As someone who decided they would miss a great part of recent or latter day topics on Aussiefrogs, I'm surprised you have such a wonderful memory for snippets of posts that mean absolutely nothing in the general scheme of things. I specifically mentioned post war Japanese products. There were no other Asian products on offer at the time. Japan had killed not only a lot of Asia's industry, but a large amount of their population. These things are well known amongst people who were born during WW2.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    You would have to answer some very tough questions if, as an RSL member, you parked your Cressida, Crown, Corolla or Datsun etc in the car park.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    You would have to answer some very tough questions if, as an RSL member, you parked your Cressida, Crown, Corolla or Datsun etc in the car park.


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    I can assure you that for a long time, oriental chariots were unwelcome in RSL car parks Australia wide. I can only suspect it might have had something to do with the Japanese railway expansion program in Asia................
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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