Speed limiters [and many other things] to be mandatory in EU cars from 2022
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  1. #1
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    Default Speed limiters [and many other things] to be mandatory in EU cars from 2022

    https://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/speed-limiters.26cy

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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    More unnecessary electronics going into cars providing more headaches when (not if but when) they malfunction.
    What plays up in most cars these days (assuming they're serviced at correct intervals)? Is it engine/ drive train/ brakes or some computer/sensor/ wiring going on the fritz somewhere.
    I say the latter.

    Teach people to drive and you won't need vast computing power and electronics to keep them from injuring themselves or others.
    (Or self-drive cars for those that can't pass a test)
    Last edited by REN TIN TIN; 1st April 2019 at 08:26 AM.
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    dvr
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    25000 deaths annually on the European roads is a lot. Is there a break down for countries, pedestrians etc. I'm tend to be suspicious about stats.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I like the argument that the majority of crashes are caused by human error.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Most of these new legislative requirements are already incorporated in vehicles currently on sale in Europe and Australia today. It's not rocket science to mandate them after proof of concept and years of service in so many manufacturer's products.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I like the argument that the majority of crashes are caused by human error.
    Absolutely, and each year there are about 25,000 less people making errors.

    John

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    Automated emergency breaking is so advanced! Imagine....a car that automatically starts selling its parts directly after a crash!


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Absolutely, and each year there are about 25,000 less people making errors.

    John

    That takes care of it, then.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Worth noting that Germany , with 50% of Autobahn network completely without speed limits, kills fewer persons per head of population than Oz, this while driving in far worse conditions.

    In Germany one can't get a licence until one has proved the ability to drive safely at 160-180k in all conditions. In Oz if one drives at 160-180 k they call you a hoon and take your car away ( and the rest!)

    In Finland it is impossible to get a licence without passing 6 hours driving sideways on a skid pan. In Oz if one drives sideways they call you a hoon and take your car away

    I suspect that it all has something to do with driver competence - in Oz the licence comes out of a weetie packet and the testing is mostly directed at compliance with law, rather than car control and driving tactics, consideration of the fallibilities of others etc etc etc

    Even the Brits drive better than we do

    Depressing

    Andrew
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I have made a similar point about the lack of driving skill many times.

    But forget skill.

    We barely have awareness of the laws we have. People indicate when they feel like it, have no idea how to merge and don't give a toss if they change lanes and cut you off. They slow down when entering the freeway instead of speeding up, they stop in the middle of the road when turning right and so on.

    The police never enforce anything other than phones, alcohol and speed.

    I would hazard a guess that insurance companies have more of a bearing on how we drive than road rules.

    Add to this people coming from all over the world who barely understand the legislation and already have bad habits and you get the picture.

    I don't know if the brits are better or worse than us, but in Europe they are the worst. Or put it differently, uk is the worst place I have driven ever.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    So the original post is correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Watkins View Post
    Worth noting that Germany , with 50% of Autobahn network completely without speed limits, kills fewer persons per head of population than Oz, this while driving in far worse conditions.

    In Germany one can't get a licence until one has proved the ability to drive safely at 160-180k in all conditions. In Oz if one drives at 160-180 k they call you a hoon and take your car away ( and the rest!)

    In Finland it is impossible to get a licence without passing 6 hours driving sideways on a skid pan. In Oz if one drives sideways they call you a hoon and take your car away

    I suspect that it all has something to do with driver competence - in Oz the licence comes out of a weetie packet and the testing is mostly directed at compliance with law, rather than car control and driving tactics, consideration of the fallibilities of others etc etc etc

    Even the Brits drive better than we do

    Depressing

    Andrew
    Don't forget that in Europe they have very strict speed limits for heavy vehicles. In Germany, for instance, they are limited to 80km/h on motorways and expressways. It's not hard to imagine why rail freight is big in Europe!

    Here's a list of speed limits .....https://www.promods.net/viewtopic.php?t=18254
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    This is worth a read (because i agree with him )
    It's from Peter Attia:
    According to the CDC, each day in the United States, approximately 9 people are killed and more than 1,000 injured in crashes that are reported to involve a distracted driver.

    In 2015, there were 35,092 motor vehicle deaths, just under 3,500 of which were deemed distracted driving deaths. Also, there were 391,000 people injured in motor vehicle crashes involving a distracted driver. Globally, nearly 1.35 million people die in road crashes each year, according to the WHO.

    Ironically, technology meant to decrease our distractions while driving is making us less attentive, argues a psychiatrist writing in the New York Times. Think about it. Most cars now have backup cameras and improved safety features that may be creating a heightened sense of security, while lowering our vigilance on the road. The author makes a plea to bring back the stick shift.

    There are three main types of distraction:

    1. Visual: taking your eyes off the road;
    2. Manual: taking your hands off the wheel; and
    3. Cognitive: taking your mind off of driving.

    If you’ve ever driven a stick, think about how it impacts the big three above. From my own anecdotal report, it’s a lot more difficult to take my eyes off the road, my hands off the wheel and stick, and my mind off driving. (This pilot study suggests improved attention and driving performance in ADHD adolescent males.) My left leg and right hand are almost assuredly more occupied than driving an automatic. It’s a lot harder to text your buddy or eat your Big Mac when you’re behind the wheel of a manual transmission. Not that you should be doing these things at all when driving, regardless, but sometimes the environment can help nudge you toward better decisions.

    Whether you drive an automatic or manual, here’s a game of driving that I like to play in order to stay hypervigilant, and I encourage you to play it: Imagine that someone on the road is trying to kill you today. They woke up with the stated purpose of killing you in your car by doing something stupid in theirs. The catch is, you don’t know who it is, but he’s out there. How are you going to drive?
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Don't forget that in Europe they have very strict speed limits for heavy vehicles. In Germany, for instance, they are limited to 80km/h on motorways and expressways. It's not hard to imagine why rail freight is big in Europe!

    Here's a list of speed limits .....https://www.promods.net/viewtopic.php?t=18254

    Not true, Kim.

    Or not true of ALL roads/regions. From personal experience. Where there are specific limits for specific vehicles/vehicle types they are signalled clearly on gantries above the road (this is true of all the EU countries). There are also lane restrictions for trucks on the freeways as well.

    And there are time restrictions too ( for instance heavy trucks are not allowed to drive on week ends). I guess it's all part of managing probably the busiest road network in the world.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    This is worth a read (because i agree with him )
    It's from Peter Attia:
    According to the CDC, each day in the United States, approximately 9 people are killed and more than 1,000 injured in crashes that are reported to involve a distracted driver.

    In 2015, there were 35,092 motor vehicle deaths, just under 3,500 of which were deemed distracted driving deaths. Also, there were 391,000 people injured in motor vehicle crashes involving a distracted driver. Globally, nearly 1.35 million people die in road crashes each year, according to the WHO.

    Ironically, technology meant to decrease our distractions while driving is making us less attentive, argues a psychiatrist writing in the New York Times. Think about it. Most cars now have backup cameras and improved safety features that may be creating a heightened sense of security, while lowering our vigilance on the road. The author makes a plea to bring back the stick shift.

    There are three main types of distraction:

    1. Visual: taking your eyes off the road;
    2. Manual: taking your hands off the wheel; and
    3. Cognitive: taking your mind off of driving.

    If you’ve ever driven a stick, think about how it impacts the big three above. From my own anecdotal report, it’s a lot more difficult to take my eyes off the road, my hands off the wheel and stick, and my mind off driving. (This pilot study suggests improved attention and driving performance in ADHD adolescent males.) My left leg and right hand are almost assuredly more occupied than driving an automatic. It’s a lot harder to text your buddy or eat your Big Mac when you’re behind the wheel of a manual transmission. Not that you should be doing these things at all when driving, regardless, but sometimes the environment can help nudge you toward better decisions.

    Whether you drive an automatic or manual, here’s a game of driving that I like to play in order to stay hypervigilant, and I encourage you to play it: Imagine that someone on the road is trying to kill you today. They woke up with the stated purpose of killing you in your car by doing something stupid in theirs. The catch is, you don’t know who it is, but he’s out there. How are you going to drive?
    And to put it all into perspective, more people in the USA are killed annually by gunshot than those who die in motor vehicle incidents. Just putting it out there!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I don't know if the brits are better or worse than us, but in Europe they are the worst. Or put it differently, uk is the worst place I have driven ever.
    Did you remember to drive on the other side of the road when you crossed the Channel?

    John
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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    And to put it all into perspective, more people in the USA are killed annually by gunshot than those who die in motor vehicle incidents. Just putting it out there!
    A very good argument for speeding as you make yourself a more difficult target for the shooters.

    John
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Did you remember to drive on the other side of the road when you crossed the Channel?

    John

    Ha. Such matters are not left to chance (or judgement of dim brits). You are channelled (so to speak) into the right lane with barriers.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    JBN
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    The one thing I have against speed limiters is that it may make an impending accident happen. If an oncoming vehicle veers into your lane, you have one of two options as to which pedal you hit. It may be the brake or it may be the accelerator. Generally the brake option keeps you in the zone of impending collision, whereas the accelerator option may put you in a position where the oncoming car passes behind you.

    In a future scenario where a vehicle cannot exceed the speed limit due to a speed limiter device, the person on the speed limit would be unable to accelerate to save their life. Perhaps both situations can be accommodated by having an audible warning sound for say 10 seconds before the speed is automatically reduced.

    John
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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    John, I'd be thinking initially of self imposed or realistic speed limits like the one on the new A110, which is speed limited to 155 mph or 250 km/h, a limit which is totally defensible by people that have been done for a lot less!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    And to put it all into perspective, more people in the USA are killed annually by gunshot than those who die in motor vehicle incidents. Just putting it out there!
    And to put that in perspective, the majority of those killed by guns, killed themselves. About 2/3 are suicide across the whole population, and 77% among the white population. Car deaths and gun deaths are about the same annually, so white americans are much less at risk from gun death (suicide aside) than they are from road death.

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/socia...ite-americans/
    Last edited by 1972Ren; 3rd April 2019 at 03:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972ren View Post
    and to put that in perspective, the majority of those killed by guns, killed themselves. About 2/3 are suicide across the whole population, and 77% among the white population. Car deaths and gun deaths are about the same annually, so white americans are much less at risk from gun death (suicide aside) than they are from road death.

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/socia...ite-americans/
    diligaf? And why are you focusing on white Americans?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    diligaf? And why are you focusing on white Americans?
    They are easier to spot and therefore easier to shoot. Black Americans have a decided advantage at night in this regard.

    John
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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    If you want to know why a lot of American citizens get killed in road crashes, look at this video for clues:



    or look here if not showing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY0gda12pXg
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Hi,
    again, you are peddling a fake-news view of road fatalities in the USA as something really bad.

    Facts: road deaths per capita, and road deaths per km traveled are only mildly worse than the average of Europe, Australia, and NZ. In fact, on the latter measure, NZ is worse than the US.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate
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