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    Fellow Frogger! 505604's Avatar
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    Default Aussie public too heavily influenced by our "journalists"

    Quite some time ago during a discussion on Aussiefrogs, I made a comment about how biased against French cars and towards German cars Australian motoring "journalists" are. No one on here actually said that they agreed with my statement, but I got a few 'likes', so I took that as a general agreement.

    In the last week or so, I saw evidence of how easily led the Australian public seems to be. I'm a member of, but a not frequent contributor to, a site called OzBargain.

    A member owns a 2016 Santa Fe Elite and he was offered a flat trade for a 2018 Peugeot 3008 Active. He wanted to know the opinion of other members as to whether or not he should take up the offer. Here's the forum post with ensuing discussion.

    If this thread is any indication, it would appear that the general Aussie public has a hate for anything French more than just a love for anything German.

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    Current cars: Peugeot 307 HDi Touring; Peugeot 306 Cabriolet; Peugeot 406 HDi, Peugeot 505 Familiale
    Previous cars: 1965 Peugeot 404; 1972 Renault 16TS; 1970 Peugeo 504 1800; 1978 Peugeot 504 GL; 1976 Peugeot 504 LTI; 1984 Peugeot 505 Familiale; 1982 Peugeot 604 (converted to TD) 1999 Peugeot 306 Cabriolet

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    There seems to be a bias I agree although it seems to be getting fairer as the products get better, however, one thing I have noticed is that with blogs/ comments that readers/viewers can contribute /comment etc there are rarely ANY positive comments from people who have a love of French vehicles and/or a positive experience to share.
    Additionally the distributors esp for Peugeot / Citroen are not advertising the fact that you can actually buy new vehicles in Australia.


    Quote Originally Posted by 505604 View Post
    Quite some time ago during a discussion on Aussiefrogs, I made a comment about how biased against French cars and towards German cars Australian motoring "journalists" are. No one on here actually said that they agreed with my statement, but I got a few 'likes', so I took that as a general agreement.

    In the last week or so, I saw evidence of how easily led the Australian public seems to be. I'm a member of, but a not frequent contributor to, a site called OzBargain.

    A member owns a 2016 Santa Fe Elite and he was offered a flat trade for a 2018 Peugeot 3008 Active. He wanted to know the opinion of other members as to whether or not he should take up the offer. Here's the forum post with ensuing discussion.

    If this thread is any indication, it would appear that the general Aussie public has a hate for anything French more than just a love for anything German.

    Discuss!

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    I love my French cars but if you took that deal you would need your head read thatís a 50k diesel 8 speeder vs a 1.2 petrol thatís worth 24 at most dealers even though the method was rough the result was right.


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    I concur wholeheartedly. It is only recently that some motoring journalists have dared say that the 3008, for example, is a good car. But, it is never "class-leading" and always seems to be a "worthy alternative".

    But, you are only looking at one slice of the pizza. To take a much broader view of how biased and ill-informed, or at least under-informed our whole reporting nature is in this country, have a look at the blinkered view of motor sport. The only real exception is Channel 10, with its show RPM (and the F1!!) and the various network coverage of the WRC, which seems to change every year.

    Basically, if they are not the ones showing it, then it doesn't get reported. Last year, the WRC was on 7Mate. The last day of the rally, I scanned the commercial network news reports. Not one reported a round of a world championship, which in this case was the deciding round, held in our own state.

    Instead, they reported on how the qualifying went for the Valencia Moto GP. Coffs Harbour, bringing X-amount of tourist dollars to the state, did not count, but Spain did.

    I rest my case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by furneauxfrogger View Post
    Additionally the distributors esp for Peugeot / Citroen are not advertising the fact that you can actually buy new vehicles in Australia.
    I don't understand. Or maybe I do - and don't want to believe what I think that I'm reading.

    Are you saying that no advertising (that you've seen) tells consumers that they can currently purchase a new Peugeot and/or CitroŽn in Australia?

    Seriously?

    Then what are they being paid for by PSA? What is their job as importers?
    Current cars: Peugeot 307 HDi Touring; Peugeot 306 Cabriolet; Peugeot 406 HDi, Peugeot 505 Familiale
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    Quote Originally Posted by furneauxfrogger View Post
    ..... one thing I have noticed is that with blogs/ comments that readers/viewers can contribute /comment etc there are rarely ANY positive comments from people who have a love of French vehicles .....
    Nail on the head. I think this applies generally. Hotels, motels, restaurants, service providers, etc. Most of the people who feel a need to comment, are those who feel the need to say something negative.

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    When we now refer to motoring journalists we are generally talking about people who never used crash gearboxes, unassisted steering, drum brakes and crossply tyres in the course of becoming a driver. How many of them, I sometimes wonder, ever used a crank handle to start a car? Back to 1960 and your Australian car came standard without a heater/demister, windscreen washers, had vacuum wipers, a bench seat, three on the tree and no seatbelts.

    Their (those "writers") perceptions, in the main, appear to be coloured by their parent's and families love of Holdens, Falcons and Toyotas, and maybe a Nissan thrown in, but mostly of the Aussie sixes, which in the sixties were absolutely lamentable. These "writers" are the dudes that are telling us what to buy, what is good, what is shithouse, and all of it based on bullshit, like Holden and Ford.

    I know some here look on a vehicle as an investment, so that it's resale price is the most appealing feature. Others, I know, think a seven year warranty ticks all the boxes, whilst others are entranced by "features" that mostly defy useful logic. The "writers" that are selling us these vehicles I'd guess have bugger all experience in owning a car that goes, handles and brakes. They don't have to own a car at all. They continually get given test cars that they have written nice things about, so they don't actually ever have to buy one!

    Those of us, all of us, that own, have owned and continue to buy French vehicles from all three major manufacturers know there is something missing in virtually every car from other manufacturers. I've owned new French cars since 1967, and to see their quality and reliability rise to be as good as or better than all other mass production manufacturers is heartening. My choices of French cars I've made over all these years has given me more satisfaction than I ever thought I'd paid for at the time.
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    I like French letters and I like French cars. One keeps me out of strife and the other causes me grief. A balanced life?

    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post

    I've owned new French cars since 1967, and to see their quality and reliability rise to be as good as or better than all other mass production manufacturers is heartening.
    Hi,
    so you're saying French car quality and reliability was inferior to other mass production manufacturers in the past, right? That might explain the reputation French cars still have among many in Australia, and particularly so given that Japanese cars, and more recently Korean ones, are so popular here, and have such outstanding reputations for reliability and repairability. For example, I can't personally recall anyone I know ever having a gearbox problem with a Japanese car, yet even here on this forum, there are entire threads about the perils of AL4 gearboxes.

    Such sins become widely known and remain in the collective public memory a long time. My personal guess is that with so few French cars in Australia ever, the chance of having trouble with repairs simply due to lack of mechanics' experience with the brands, exacerbates the problem. I would reckon that mechanics in France know how to fix those AL4 gremlins.

    Re the bias thing, that is hard to say, but I don't personally see that in motoring journalists. German manufacturers make a much wider range of cars, including loads of sexy high end models, plus some breath taking performance cars. So there is much about which to become excited and rave. The man on the street, however, mostly isn't interest in either French OR German cars. Top 20 sellers for one month last year; VW golf is inthere, and 19 others from Ford, Holden, or Asian brands.

    https://www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au...TopSellers.pdf
    Last edited by 1972Ren; 24th March 2019 at 03:01 AM.

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    Kim, i admire your view through rose tinted glass If anything, the older French cars were better in many ways than the newer ones. Excellent driving experience with comfort and handling.
    Have no problem with the new ones but they are generic.
    Isn't the AL4 based on the ADs? The ADs are VW/AUDI
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972Ren View Post
    Hi,
    so you're saying French car quality and reliability was inferior to other mass production manufacturers in the past, right?
    I, and perhaps others, would appreciate you informing us where in my little French car love-letter (Post#7) I specifically pronounced or intimated such a sentiment? My observation is that that French vehicles of the sixties were leaps and bounds in advance of any Australian built cars in performance, handling and comfort. Their quality and reliability was certainly no worse. Some people, possibly yourself, confuse reliability with service and parts availability, in which local vehicles had and sustain an advantage. I guess like a lot of our current Auto scribes, you never drove an R16TS to Darwin and back in 1970 to find out?
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    Kim, you should know that French cars of the Renault Australia period (and earlier) were in no way inferior in spare parts supply to locally produced cars. Renault proudly maintained a 95% first pick parts availability for the 504. Assembly quality of Renaults and Peugeots in Australia sometimes fell short of target but the complete assemblies from France such as motors and transmissions were of a far higher quality than in any locally produced vehicles and very rarely displayed manufacturing faults. On the other hand the 1970's were a low point in Australian automotive quality. Any part not up to standard on the Renault line was scrapped immediately. Some Australian car companies would repair parts, even reboring faulty new engines. An approach to quality summed up by an American executive at the GMH gearbox plant at Fishermans Bend in 1968. Upon discovering a pile of faulty miscast gears rejected by the machinists, he declared they were making Holdens not Rolls Royces and ordered the scrap processed. And it was, and put in the gearboxes. This view of Peugeots as low quality is a new development and a reversal of what once was. A serious importer would conduct a study of why buyers have increasingly deserted the make since 2007 and migrated to other brands. There are anecdotes and stories but cars are not sold on anecdotes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Kim, i admire your view through rose tinted glass If anything, the older French cars were better in many ways than the newer ones. Excellent driving experience with comfort and handling.
    Have no problem with the new ones but they are generic.
    Isn't the AL4 based on the ADs? The ADs are VW/AUDI
    AL4
    is Siemens I think, has Siemens control box at any rate.

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    So has the AD4
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
    Stephen Hawking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    Kim, you should know that French cars of the Renault Australia period (and earlier) were in no way inferior in spare parts supply to locally produced cars. Renault proudly maintained a 95% first pick parts availability for the 504. Assembly quality of Renaults and Peugeots in Australia sometimes fell short of target but the complete assemblies from France such as motors and transmissions were of a far higher quality than in any locally produced vehicles and very rarely displayed manufacturing faults. On the other hand the 1970's were a low point in Australian automotive quality. Any part not up to standard on the Renault line was scrapped immediately. Some Australian car companies would repair parts, even reboring faulty new engines. An approach to quality summed up by an American executive at the GMH gearbox plant at Fishermans Bend in 1968. Upon discovering a pile of faulty miscast gears rejected by the machinists, he declared they were making Holdens not Rolls Royces and ordered the scrap processed. And it was, and put in the gearboxes. This view of Peugeots as low quality is a new development and a reversal of what once was. A serious importer would conduct a study of why buyers have increasingly deserted the make since 2007 and migrated to other brands. There are anecdotes and stories but cars are not sold on anecdotes.
    Spare parts supply is one thing, location is another. I visited the Mt Isa Renault dealer (a motorcycle dealer) in 1970 on my big trip to Darwin only to find that his entire Renault parts stock amounted to windscreen wiper rubbers for an R10 and several assorted sizes of 12V globes. The next dealer was 1600km up the road in Darwin. Returning through the Centre was no different, nearest dealer? Adelaide! Not exactly a part in every milk bar, like Holden or Ford......I think this is why people are still shy of French brands....cars ARE sold on anecdotes......
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Renault used to give 40% discount to dealers for stock orders to induce them to hold parts. It was a problem of small sales and dealers who had few area cars to service. But where there was a strong dealer with good sales parts were readily available. Horsham and Mildura spring to mind and Ballarat where the Peugeot dealer had a larger spare parts stock than the Holden dealer. But it's true, every garage could access parts for a Holden and firms like Repco provided parts (as well as a few for Peugeot.) Unlike some makes Peugeot owners were never left stranded waiting for parts from overseas and cars were never scrapped because parts were not available. When I bought my 203 in 1974 the spare parts bloke at Regans proudly told me he could still supply 203 parts 26 years after it had entered production. To the despair of some Renault executives. But Peugeot owners expected no less.

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    I am serious, several people have stated to me that they weren't aware Peugeot or Citroen sold new vehicles in Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by furneauxfrogger View Post
    I am serious, several people have stated to me that they weren't aware Peugeot or Citroen sold new vehicles in Australia.
    Did they actually know what the brands were? If they did that would be a plus!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    At least there is some fair journalistic writing being done now. Read this this morning:

    https://www.caradvice.com.au/693259/...campaign=brand
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    The Renault profile in Australia has increased a tad with Daniel Ricciardo
    They sold out of Renault caps hats and tee shirts at the F1 in Melbourne
    Then
    Why would you call a car called Cactus in Australia?
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    Quote Originally Posted by furneauxfrogger View Post
    I am serious, several people have stated to me that they weren't aware Peugeot or Citroen sold new vehicles in Australia.
    Are there any dealerships on Flinders Island ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    Are there any dealerships on Flinders Island ?
    They are obviously waiting for a re-launch of the amphibious Peugeots of the 1920's before targeting the island trade.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Kim, I admire your view through rose tinted glass If anything, the older French cars were better in many ways than the newer ones. Excellent driving experience with comfort and handling.
    Indeed. I remember, especially, my 1965 model Peugeot 404 in that regard.

    But it did have one recurring fault. The linkages at the gearbox end of that column shift were notorious. But that odd-ball patterned column shift was a joy to drive, once you got used to it.
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    Yep and like most Renaultís it made it 200m before bits started falling off.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Car 76 View Post
    At least there is some fair journalistic writing being done now. Read this this morning:

    https://www.caradvice.com.au/693259/...campaign=brand
    Yes, I have read a few reviews on caradvice.com.au which have been more favourable towards Peugeot than on other sites.

    And I learnt something skimming the article you linked to. When I spoke to the Peugeot/CitroŽn and BMW Dealer in Wagga Wagga late last year, the salesman confidently told me that Peugeot didn't have lane departure warning technology. I took him at his word as I didn't know any better. But that article says that it is on the 3008.

    If the salesmen don't know what the cars are about, then the public has no hope.
    Current cars: Peugeot 307 HDi Touring; Peugeot 306 Cabriolet; Peugeot 406 HDi, Peugeot 505 Familiale
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