Keyless Entry cars blocked from opening in Perth car Park
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Thread: Keyless Entry cars blocked from opening in Perth car Park

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
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    Default Keyless Entry cars blocked from opening in Perth car Park

    Will be interesting to see the cause of this. Late news is they have found the offending signal, but have not yet located it, believed to be possibly from some new equipment installed in a nearby store. Not thought to be deliberate.
    However, it raises the question of this being carried out deliberately by some idiot. I wasn't aware this could be done over a group of cars, but obviously, it can.


    (Channel Nine News 8 Mar 2019
    "Dozens of Perth drivers with keyless entry cars have been locked out of their vehicles at Lakeside Joondalup Shopping Centre, because of a mystery fault.

    9News understands at least 80 cars have been affected since Tuesday, leaving shoppers unable to get into their cars.

    Advertisement


    The problem has been confined to a small area of the shopping centre, sparking concerns the devices were being deliberately targeted by hackers.

    Police were notified but Lakeside Joondalup said they did not believe the interference was a deliberate or criminal act.

    It is believed the keyless entry devices may have been disrupted by Wi-Fi signals or a radio transmitter, but the exact cause has not been confirmed.

    "We have been in contact with the Australian Communications and Media Authority, who suspect the disruption is caused by a device as simple as an internet router," it said in a statement.

    Centre management has stepped up security patrols to help shoppers who are locked out of their cars."


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  2. #2
    UFO
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    So there are key less entry cars being built without the ability to put an actual key in a lock and unlock it?

    Every key less car I have seen does have at least one actual lock barrel and a key concealed within the key less entry fob.

    Ah, but of course that would require the owners to READ THE FLAMING MANUAL!

    I don't dispute there could be some stray or deliberate signal blocking wifi connection between car and key fob and I like the idea of an unmanaged internet/wifi router.
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    JBN
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    Looks like a smorgasbord for the person with the antidote. Which car will I take tonight?

    John
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    JBN
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    On a slightly different note. I help my wife sell Kids With Cancer car raffle tickets. We always have a car or sometimes two cars on display at shopping centres. Last week we had two Jaguars an XE and an E-Pace. We use the boot to store tickets, money, etc whilst we duck off to the loo or for lunch. Last week my wife found she couldn't unlock the boot on the XE to get out the valuables. She rang security who came, inspected and said it was a flat battery in the sender. This was replaced for about $50 to no avail. I came in later, finally managed to extract the physical key from the remote and unlocked the car. Being easily baffled by modern car design (or lack of) I was unable to find the handle to unlock the bonnet (suspecting a flat car battery). Eventually it dawned on me that it was basically a Ford, and finally found the bonnet release up in the front passenger foot well. Opened the bonnet and was confronted with an unfamiliar battery, with no obvious terminals except for a prominent red pimple central on the top of the "battery". I have a handy portable battery booster which can deliver enough to start the car. One look at this strange battery on a $90K car and me without insurance led me to surrender and leave it to the towie, who does have insurance and more knowledge than me. Our gear is still somewhere in the boot of a Jaguar somewhere in Sydney.

    I lament the the slide downwards in car interior ergonomics from the original CX 2400 (which was better than the CX25IE). The door cards which had real arm rests, a real grab handle to open or close the door in any gale with the instinctive trigger to open it. The dash with all the warning lights in the one place, straight in front of the driver, the revolving drums showing speed and tacho, but only the speed you were actually doing and only the revs of the engine at that moment, not the full range of values to confuse. A single spoke steering wheel without an airbag (Takata or other) to impede the view of the dash. All controls at the finger tips and able to be operated instinctively by feel and position, day or night, eyes open or closed.

    Now everything relies on electronics, powered by battery on a good day or the darkness of hell on a bad day. I guess progress is better measured on a clock face rather than a lineal measure. Lets say the hour hand was on 12 for the CX. These days the hour hand is around 8. We have come a long way since 12, but still have a long way to go before we are back at 12.

    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    So there are key less entry cars being built without the ability to put an actual key in a lock and unlock it?

    Every key less car I have seen does have at least one actual lock barrel and a key concealed within the key less entry fob.

    Ah, but of course that would require the owners to READ THE FLAMING MANUAL!

    I don't dispute there could be some stray or deliberate signal blocking wifi connection between car and key fob and I like the idea of an unmanaged internet/wifi router.
    The video shows a guy from the next door Ultra Tune opening cars with wire etc, so I guess it wasn't too easy. I know each of my cars with keyless entry also can be opened with a key if required, but I don't know about later "proximity" keyless entry systems.
    Also it wasn't clear if they could open the door but not start the engines due to immobilisation.

    I'm surprised this hasn't happened on a large scale before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordman View Post
    Also it wasn't clear if they could open the door but not start the engines due to immobilisation.
    This seems likely. I can’t think of a car key-fob that doesn’t have a little pull-out manual key to open the door in the event of a failure. However the “proximity” cars still need to recognise the key is near (or inside) the car to start the engine. If the signal from the fob is blocked somehow, then I’m not sure how you would turn the car on. The physical key (on my C4 Grand Picasso) only seems to have a place in the door handle - I haven’t noticed an “ignition” to insert the key.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfelix View Post
    This seems likely. I canít think of a car key-fob that doesnít have a little pull-out manual key to open the door in the event of a failure. However the ďproximityĒ cars still need to recognise the key is near (or inside) the car to start the engine. If the signal from the fob is blocked somehow, then Iím not sure how you would turn the car on. The physical key (on my C4 Grand Picasso) only seems to have a place in the door handle - I havenít noticed an ďignitionĒ to insert the key.
    Wow youíre playing with fire you put your key into the slot under the start button if itís a super late one itís a key shape on the column cover


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    Pity The Gonz isn't frequenting the forum these days as he was well up-to-date with the secrets of jamming technology and the vulnerability of even highly protected circuits in fighter planes costing multi millions of dollars. I wonder if we will ever be on top of all the things that can go badly wrong with a much lower cost Mr and Mrs average personal transport vehicle.


    In another life, my employer got all the latest threats and scares and we tried to do scenario exercises should some techniques become known and used for criminal or terrorist exploitation. One reason I have a healthy scepticism as to the infallibility of certain devices claimed or legislated to make them infallible and those wonderful "driverless" infallible motor cars.


    I guess once the cause is more widely known such incidents will become more common and yes there will be some technology added to overcome the problem or ignored if "they" ?? (Government and industry) can get away with it.

    Ken
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  9. #9
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    Hi,
    It is surprising ACMA thinks it could be a router! There must be millions of them all over the place, and their signals and power output one would think to be essentially identical. If ONE of them could cause this, it would be remarkable to have not occurred before.

    STOP PRESS
    Looks like that question has been answered already, and hopefully ACMA will give the details in due course. Hopefully for the Chemist Warehouse, it doesn't turn out that they were using one of those high power, straight from China, wifi amplifiers.


    https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/de...ng-b881130244z
    Last edited by 1972Ren; 9th March 2019 at 07:25 PM.
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    Click onto the Whirlpool forums,then to Automotive,there is a thread on this subject.
    It's a common event around OZ,radio interference has stranded many cars in carparks -streets etc.
    Seems it is badly shielded transmitters or overpowering nearby insulations from many sources nearby
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    Iíve had cars not start when I put the key on the diagbox keyboard


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  12. #12
    bob
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    G'day,

    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    So there are key less entry cars being built without the ability to put an actual key in a lock and unlock it?
    Every key less car I have seen does have at least one actual lock barrel and a key concealed within the key less entry fob........
    aaaah, go back to the 80's, we had the amazing Fuego, keyless entry 'n all. Yes, it had a lock barrel, but no mechanical connection, just a switch, it still relied on a live battery....

    Must check the Latitude tomorrow, I wonder.....

    cheers,
    Bob
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    UFO
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    Looks like ACMA has prescribed a treatment to cure the ills.
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    A device as simple as a garage door opener will block/interfere with the signal from 'keyless' entry systems.
    In some places (South Africa for instance where the thugs are smarter) it is not uncommon for car thieves to hang around where people park their cars and press a cheap garage door opener simultaneously while the unsuspecting motorist remotely 'locks' their car and walks away. Believe me, it works as I have tried it at home here. May not work on all systems but certainly works on my Toyota.

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    That's my local major shopping centre and I go to that Chemist Warehouse. Wifi by Huawei. I can park outside and inductively charge my car battery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    That's my local major shopping centre and I go to that Chemist Warehouse. Wifi by Huawei. I can park outside and inductively charge my car battery.
    You are a very naughty boy, Stuey, stealing that power from a poor local shop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    That's my local major shopping centre and I go to that Chemist Warehouse. Wifi by Huawei. I can park outside and inductively charge my car battery.
    Wifi by Huawei. What could possibly go wrong?
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    It gets worse.....got a new Tarago at work, keyless ignition. Tested it out. Was able to start it with the key 5 to 6 metres away and drive off. Only stops then when it's turned off or out of fuel. Don't park in your carport and hang your keys in the kitchen metres away, lol.


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    Woman with a new Holden Cruze I think hopped in her car and drove to the shops. Realised after turning it off her keys were in her house. Stuck....
    Also my local shops Stuey, I'm in Kinross.


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    Also, get a flat battery in a commodore Vz onwards, Land Rover discovery and lots of other new cars and the key is not going to help you get in unless you can power the battery. Have suggested to several owners they put jump starting connections accessible outside the bonnet.


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    I smell bs pv


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    Quote Originally Posted by Perth Vedette View Post
    Also, get a flat battery in a commodore Vz onwards, Land Rover discovery and lots of other new cars and the key is not going to help you get in unless you can power the battery. Have suggested to several owners they put jump starting connections accessible outside the bonnet.


    Sent from my iPad using aussiefrogs
    Hah on a number of Fuego's I had fitted wires to get access to the system to attach a battery and at least open the car with a key when the battery was flat (early series one cars) the later ones mostly...you could open a door with a key, but not always...

    Ken

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