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  1. #1
    nJm
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    Default Driving Lights

    I'm thinking of doing quite a bit more driving out in the country at night so I would like to improve the lighting in my 505. It currently has Narva 50%+ globes in it which have made a big difference, but I've always felt the 505's highbeam was lacking just a bit.

    I was thinking about putting some driving lights on it. I've had a quick look on the Ciebi and Hella websites but I have no idea where to start. I guess something small, as I've heard about issues with them blocking the radiator in the 505. I would consider mounting them below the bumper rather than infront of the fan grille, however I'd be worried about the lenses being hit by stones.

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    So does anyone recommend any particular type? I don't want anything that would look silly (really large), as it is mainly a city car. Do the round ones or rectangular lights work better?

    Cheers,
    Nick.
    Nick
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    Quote Originally Posted by nJm
    I'm thinking of doing quite a bit more driving out in the country at night so I would like to improve the lighting in my 505. It currently has Narva 50%+ globes in it which have made a big difference, but I've always felt the 505's highbeam was lacking just a bit.

    I was thinking about putting some driving lights on it. I've had a quick look on the Ciebi and Hella websites but I have no idea where to start. I guess something small, as I've heard about issues with them blocking the radiator in the 505. I would consider mounting them below the bumper rather than infront of the fan grille, however I'd be worried about the lenses being hit by stones.

    So does anyone recommend any particular type? I don't want anything that would look silly (really large), as it is mainly a city car. Do the round ones or rectangular lights work better?

    Cheers,
    Nick.

    Bearing in mind you are considering mounting the lights under the bumper, I would recommend these - lightforce

    They are strong, lightweight and I think the 1.7 km range should make night driving a little easier......

    I'd go for the 240's myself, at the bargain price of $1200 each ($2400 per pair )

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    Any good quality light will be fine if they are relayed.

    Don't mount 'em under the bumper, you'll get stuff all light out of them (only fog lights get mounted down there). Mount them as high as legally possible and aim them properly on a nice (quiet) straight dark road.

    Driving lights make a dramatic difference to old cars, especially cars with stuffed reflectors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Bearing in mind you are considering mounting the lights under the bumper, I would recommend these - lightforce

    They are strong, lightweight and I think the 1.7 km range should make night driving a little easier......

    I'd go for the 240's myself, at the bargain price of $1200 each ($2400 per pair )
    Lightforce are simply the best value light on the market. A set of Blitz 170's should go nicely on s 505. I thought of putting a set on my 505. I have the 240's on the cruiser, not the 1100$ HID but the normal halogen ones, they were 380 for the pair. Australian made and designed in SA as well.
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    you might even pick up a decent pair at the wreckers s/h if youre lucky.

    But first, relay the headlights (unless 505s are factory relayed? My 504s were ) and pop in some 90/130 watt globes - night into day
    I did that with my 504s (and the Rover 2000) - got some H4 units for the outer pair and some super dooper strong globes and they were great!

    The lights in the pug are metal cases so no worrys about melting them (though I ran 90/130 in the Fuego with plastic cases no worries, and have 90/100 in the R25 with no relays )
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    595 lights don't have relays so they are a must

    also i am sure 505 lights are also a single globe unit which is the other reason they are not so good

    i know my uncle modified some 504 trap lights with volvo guts so they are twin globe units so maybe that can be something to think abour for the 505 as well
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo

    also i am sure 505 lights are also a single globe unit which is the other reason they are not so good

    i know my uncle modified some 504 trap lights with volvo guts so they are twin globe units so maybe that can be something to think abour for the 505 as well
    they are a single globe unit, but with a whiz bang globe they are not too bad (did a country drive last weekend with my friend in his 505 with standard lights and they are pretty good I thought - nice spread and well defined low beam)
    Just dont tell Mistareno as 90/130 globes are technically illegal for road use

    Dual globes just generally mean you can pack more "wattage" into the high beam. 2 130 watt high beam globes is more than a standard quad setup with 4 60 watt globes.... Just make sure they are relayed to avoid cooking the switches and minimise voltage drop.
    I guess Pug dropped the relays for the 505. My earlier LTI had relays on low and high beam, but my later 78' one only had it for high beam (I think...).
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    WLB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    they are a single globe unit, but with a whiz bang globe they are not too bad (did a country drive last weekend with my friend in his 505 with standard lights and they are pretty good I thought - nice spread and well defined low beam)
    The biggest problem with 505 lights is that, when old, they jump off the little hydraulic level adjusting ram and point down at the road. If you're only driving around in built-up areas, you don't always notice immediately. Often they also get discoloured inside as surface corrosion of the plated surface sets in. But this is frequently on the areas that are not actually the reflector, just the inside of the housing. Later units were just grey plastic. So the unit that looks brownish through the lens from a distance, is often okay on closer inspection.

    Warwick.

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WLB
    The biggest problem with 505 lights is that, when old, they jump off the little hydraulic level adjusting ram and point down at the road. If you're only driving around in built-up areas, you don't always notice immediately. Often they also get discoloured inside as surface corrosion of the plated surface sets in. But this is frequently on the areas that are not actually the reflector, just the inside of the housing. Later units were just grey plastic. So the unit that looks brownish through the lens from a distance, is often okay on closer inspection.

    Warwick.
    My friends 505 is blessed with very good reflectors which helps. Re. the adjuster thingys - this car has inoperative ones that are fully retracted meaning they couldnt be adjusted to point up enough. Solution was to remove the adjuster screw plastic housing on the rad support panel, and invert it. This puts the screw lower and gives enough adjustment
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    I reckon this should do the trick


    BTW - I reckon the Fuego has about the best factory headlights of any car I've ever driven.

    On Low beams, they are well very focused with a well defined kick-up to light up the left verge (but not blind oncoming traffic) and a nice broad spread over the rest of the road.

    On High beams they pretty much delete the need for driving lights.

    They are a single globe setup and they are just the stock 60/55W (or what ever the stockies were)

    I think the brightness comes inherently from the light's design. Installing brighter globes just dazzles other drivers more by making a more intense center to the light......

    90/130's....that's nothing I used to have a mate with a shitbox old Corona that had 190W sealed beam aircraft landing lights......it was like "Oh look, the possums are falling out of the trees ahead"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    My friends 505 is blessed with very good reflectors which helps. Re. the adjuster thingys - this car has inoperative ones that are fully retracted meaning they couldnt be adjusted to point up enough. Solution was to remove the adjuster screw plastic housing on the rad support panel, and invert it. This puts the screw lower and gives enough adjustment
    I've never actually seen one with a set that works. (Possible because I didn't inspect any headlight adjusters when the cars were new). All of mine (3 - cars, not adjuster thingies) were stuck in the midway position. On one car, I got feed up and cut them out and siliconed in a small block of wood.

    Luck Ray Bell didn't know. What could be cheaper than plastic wheel covers? I didn't even stain or Estapol the wood.

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    WLB
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    BTW - I reckon the Fuego has about the best factory headlights of any car I've ever driven.
    You've obviously never driven an FJ (Series 2) at speed with the full 6 volts throbbing through its Lucas 35/45W sealed beams.

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    I have also never seen an auto adjuster that works on a Pug or a Reno (same things...) except the R21 Marseille that only works on the left light

    I think some 505s had manual adhusters only (ie no hydraulic ones) which would be the go to replace dodgy auto adjusters.

    That FJ sounds pretty good compared to the R4 - 6 volts and 25 watters
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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    I reckon this should do the trick


    BTW - I reckon the Fuego has about the best factory headlights of any car I've ever driven.

    On Low beams, they are well very focused with a well defined kick-up to light up the left verge (but not blind oncoming traffic) and a nice broad spread over the rest of the road.

    On High beams they pretty much delete the need for driving lights.

    They are a single globe setup and they are just the stock 60/55W (or what ever the stockies were)

    I think the brightness comes inherently from the light's design. Installing brighter globes just dazzles other drivers more by making a more intense center to the light......

    90/130's....that's nothing I used to have a mate with a shitbox old Corona that had 190W sealed beam aircraft landing lights......it was like "Oh look, the possums are falling out of the trees ahead"

    Oh the humanity!! That poor bloody R21 - no Reno deserves that ...... But with that many lights, why is he so concerned with looking behind him??

    I agree that the Fuego lights are pretty good. I did find the 90/130 made a big difference though. Great for country driving and round town. I was very careful with the alignment though to not piss off others
    But because they are such a good light with good isolation of the light for low beam, you can get away with a bright globe.

    I think about 250 - 300 watts is all you really need for high beam. If you need more, you going too fast for night time anyway...
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    nJm
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    Thanks for all the great advice. Well first off I'm waiting for my car to get its panel damage fixed up (including one new headlight), but then I will look at the headlight mountings. I have one of the broken hydraulic systems, and mine doesn't have the knobs under the bonnet to manually adjust them.

    I've always thought the 505 had excellent low-beams. A very wide spread of light. Miles ahead of most modern cars I drive. However as it is just a single H4 globe, switching to high beams removes a lot of the wide spread of the beam.

    Anyway, I'll look into putting a relay in and maybe stronger globes. I guess I was looking forward to the 'butch' look that comes with extra driving lights
    Nick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    Oh the humanity!! That poor bloody R21 - no Reno deserves that ...... But with that many lights, why is he so concerned with looking behind him??

    I was very careful with the alignment though to not piss off others
    But because they are such a good light with good isolation of the light for low beam, you can get away with a bright globe.
    The silly sod, while blinding the people driving towards him, is being blinded himself by the people following him. It's quite poetic really.

    Why would you be concerned about pissing people off with poor alignment? Not very fashionable of you Haakon! I thought you were supposed to have headlight with very good low beam height cut-off (as all Pugs have had for at least several decades), but then drive around with so-called foglights ablaze. A foglight by necessity is mounted low (okay, they qualify there) but has a wide flat beam to penetrate the fog free zone just above the ground. If you're driving towards a car and its "foglights" appear as bright or brighter than its headlights, then they are not foglights and wouldn't be of any use in fog. Since many of our European cars are now made in or spec'ed for the UK, these lights are probably Pommie-bloody-helping-to-stop-high-speed-prangs-on-the-motorway-in-fog-lights, but it just gets abreviated to foglight in the owners' manual. Like the rear foglights fitted since the 505, also intended to stop Poms rear-ending each other in the fog, but out here just looks like a brake light and helping to make it harder to notice the real brake light. These are a particular favourite of the Hyundai set.

    Sorry Haakon. Hit a raw nerve. (How does the song go again? "If I had a hammer........")

    Warwick.

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WLB
    The silly sod, while blinding the people driving towards him, is being blinded himself by the people following him. It's quite poetic really.

    Why would you be concerned about pissing people off with poor alignment? Not very fashionable of you Haakon! I thought you were supposed to have headlight with very good low beam height cut-off (as all Pugs have had for at least several decades), but then drive around with so-called foglights ablaze. A foglight by necessity is mounted low (okay, they qualify there) but has a wide flat beam to penetrate the fog free zone just above the ground. If you're driving towards a car and its "foglights" appear as bright or brighter than its headlights, then they are not foglights and wouldn't be of any use in fog. Since many of our European cars are now made in or spec'ed for the UK, these lights are probably Pommie-bloody-helping-to-stop-high-speed-prangs-on-the-motorway-in-fog-lights, but it just gets abreviated to foglight in the owners' manual. Like the rear foglights fitted since the 505, also intended to stop Poms rear-ending each other in the fog, but out here just looks like a brake light and helping to make it harder to notice the real brake light. These are a particular favourite of the Hyundai set.

    Sorry Haakon. Hit a raw nerve. (How does the song go again? "If I had a hammer........")

    Warwick.

    Huh??
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    Default Lightforce

    If you decide to go for driving lights - I must agree with a couple of previous posts. Lightforce make a very good driving light - but $1200 each?? - Mon Dieu!! - not my sort of purchase.
    I bought a pair of Lightforce 170mm dia 100watters for $275.00 in year 2000.
    They use a different globe - I think it was xenon? - not halogen - and they are more than adequate for normal country driving.
    They have a particularly good feature of adjustable spread - the focus adjusts by screwing the whole casing in/out from pencil beams to widespread or anywhere in between. I set them up by parking about 10 metres from a wall and getting the 2 beams to just overlap in the middle and haven't touched them since.
    Another interesting thing is that I have not yet blown a globe - other driving lights have seemed quite prone to globe failures. Although I have not left them on the car permanently, they have done 2 return trips Perth/Melbourne on two different cars so they seem fairly reliable.
    My bro-in-law has been on both these trips and gets rather peed off because he reckons they are at least as good as his Cibie Super Oscars at about half? the price.
    The worst thing about them is they look a bit cheap (plastic) but I think this is what makes them so durable.
    For in-the-grille mounting they go down to 140 mm dia.
    At the risk of causing another "forum fracas" (refer Citroen WRC suspension) dare I suggest that this is a bloody good Australian product!

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    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordman
    If you decide to go for driving lights - I must agree with a couple of previous posts. Lightforce make a very good driving light - but $1200 each?? - Mon Dieu!! - not my sort of purchase.
    I bought a pair of Lightforce 170mm dia 100watters for $275.00 in year 2000.
    They use a different globe - I think it was xenon? - not halogen - and they are more than adequate for normal country driving.
    They have a particularly good feature of adjustable spread - the focus adjusts by screwing the whole casing in/out from pencil beams to widespread or anywhere in between. I set them up by parking about 10 metres from a wall and getting the 2 beams to just overlap in the middle and haven't touched them since.
    Another interesting thing is that I have not yet blown a globe - other driving lights have seemed quite prone to globe failures. Although I have not left them on the car permanently, they have done 2 return trips Perth/Melbourne on two different cars so they seem fairly reliable.
    My bro-in-law has been on both these trips and gets rather peed off because he reckons they are at least as good as his Cibie Super Oscars at about half? the price.
    The worst thing about them is they look a bit cheap (plastic) but I think this is what makes them so durable.
    For in-the-grille mounting they go down to 140 mm dia.
    At the risk of causing another "forum fracas" (refer Citroen WRC suspension) dare I suggest that this is a bloody good Australian product!
    The 1200$ price tag is for the HID gas discharge lights. I have driven behind a set and they are absolutly awesome. However if given the choice of 1 of those or 3 sets of RMDL 240's I know which way I would go. Compare however the cost of the LF HID's with the Hella Predator which were somewhere in the 2k vicinity last I checked. I spent some time talking to the Lightforce rep at the 4wd show in Queanbeyan in Feb. The plastic housing whilst looking (as you rightly pointed out) a bit cheap is responsible for the durabiliity. They are very light and mount incredibily robustly to the vehicle. They do not vibrate due to the light weight, nothing really to start them vibrating. As for the super oscars, they were a great light back 15 years when Hella Rallye 2000, Super Oscars and Marchal's ruled the roost. Now I would bin them and get lightforce, come to think of it I sold my 60 series with the Rallye 2000's on it rather than take them from one to another anymore. Lightforce also offer coloured and refracted lenses for their lights, so you can easily change a pencil light into a spread or a combo if you want to clip on the appropriate cover. Even UV survailence if that floats your boat.
    Last edited by cruiserman; 26th May 2004 at 09:10 AM.
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    If you are going to uprate the globes in a 505 you MUST put relays in other wise you will burn the copper tracks on the fuse printed circuit board. The boards were marginal when new for uprated globes but with age and corrosion they will not last very long. All you need to do is take a heavy wire from the battery via a fuse to 2 relay's mounted on the opposite side to the battery and cut the existing wires going to the head lights and use these to turn the relay's on and put the output of the relay's to the existing wires going to the headlights. You could put bigger wires to the lights if you are feeling enegetic.

    Alan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    Huh??
    Just read my post. Huh is right! I'd just come in from being blinded again by some drongo in a WRX with his "foglights" on in town. I was only making the comment, albeit long-winded, that you must be the only person left who's concerned about beam alignment.

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    I've got a set of Oscar SC's which I've had for years, 1997. Great little light. Durable as anything, been backed into and survived a roll over which totaled the Mazda they were fitted on. However, did find that they don't like 100w globes, a little too much heat for the resin reflector. I chose them as the LF weren't available at the time, and I couldn't fit anything bigger on the car, a 121. I've also tried Hella Comet 450, they're on the wife's car, and I reckon the beam is crap. I won't touch IPF or Narva and the wallet can't reach PIAA. It's so tempting to try some LightForce but the wife would kill me. Besides, I've still got the Cibies in the garage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLB
    These are a particular favourite of the Hyundai set.

    Sorry Haakon. Hit a raw nerve. (How does the song go again? "If I had a hammer........")

    Warwick.
    Don't blame the Hyundies driver. The switch is set like a hair trigger and there's no tell tale on the switch or dash to say that they're on. So if you so much as look at the switch with a frown, it'll switch on, and you don't know...

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