Phones, Cars and Suspension
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Thread: Phones, Cars and Suspension

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    dvr
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    Default Phones, Cars and Suspension

    The USA state of New Hampshire has implemented a 2 year loss of licence for the third offence. About time we got tough on phone use in this country too.

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    I do most of my driving from the perched position of a 4wd. It annoys me to see so many texting and handling their phones. Yesterday on a three lane road the driver alongside me was texting with one eye and the other on the road at 60kph! I got on the horn, short first and then a continuous blast. That driver initially ignored me but eventually did throw the phone on the passenger seat.

    Do I feel a dickhead for invading somebody's space? No, especially if it stops them invading somebody else's space.
    Last edited by dvr; 22nd January 2019 at 12:28 PM.
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    Hi dvr
    My thoughts too. I also get around in a high van but actually I can see then from my car too. It is a lack of self control so perhaps as a community we need to deal with it firmly.
    Jaahn

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    This may become an anti-Beemer thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    This may become an anti-Beemer thread.
    ....?

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    In my daily 90km round trip I see hand held phone use WAY too often. I may have been known to let the offending doofus that a French car has a rather loud horn.

    I hope this is proven viable and rolled out

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-...phone/10624648

    On a slightly related topic. A work colleague used to drive a pantech between Canberra and Sydney each week for the nursery he was employed at. He tells us that from his lofty heights he regularly viewed what bored drivers do to while away the hours on the Hume Hwy. He implied that they were usually male drivers... These are the best emoticons I can apply to the story.
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    JBN
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    There are some things male drivers do that female drivers don't do when driving. I think it stems from the fact that female drivers prefer to drive automatics, whilst many men hanker for manual cars. So, when driving the family car (automatic) the male has one hand free and that can lead to...

    John

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    I recently took a trip to near Maitland to pick up an old Camry. I phoned the guy the day before to keep it for me as I was going to travel by train to pick it up. He asked where I lived and then said he had family in Sydney and if I met him at a convenient suburban railway station he could give me a lift to the car, if I could stand his driving. Being a lazy adventurer, I accepted the offer. He spent most of the time on the Newcastle Expressway in the fast lane with a handheld phone in his hand doing business.

    I bought the car which presented exactly as I expected looking at the Carsales entry so that I wouldn't have to relive that journey.

    John

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    Hi,
    personally, I am more in favour of penalising people who are involved at-fault in car accidents, rather than people who do something which does nothing more than incrementally raise the risk of having an accident. I consider crashing your car into something to be a far better indicator of the risk you pose, than doing something relatively risky without crashing your car. How about a 2 year suspension for those who actually prang a car?? Yes I agree that texting / holding phones while driving is relatively risky, but going full nazi on it as if it is some serious problem, is grossly disproportionate. If you spend some time watching car crash vids on youtube, you will realise that car accidents are caused by many things, and phones are involved in few of them. Meantime, despite sms being around for over 20years, and its use increasing, accident rates are falling.

    Nor do I wish to see Australia taking cues from anything American where law enforcement is concerned.
    Last edited by 1972Ren; 23rd January 2019 at 02:19 AM.
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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    It's all a bit late to penalise someone after the fact if you can prevent (or minimise) it beforehand.
    It's cold comfort to someone that is injured or has lost a family member or friend to a texting driver to know they're going to the big house for (maybe) a couple of years. There's no cure for being dead.
    But who's going 'full nazi' on this anyway, certainly the police here in Queensland aren't. I don't have that far to drive to work but I see at least one driver either texting or using a handheld mobile phone every day so any penalties are still ignored.

    Cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    It's all a bit late to penalise someone after the fact if you can prevent (or minimise) it beforehand.
    It's cold comfort to someone that is injured or has lost a family member or friend to a texting driver to know they're going to the big house for (maybe) a couple of years. There's no cure for being dead.
    I read that comment more on the side of increasing the use of license suspensions, right down to suspensions for minor accidents where fault is apportioned. That would help drive home the responsibility that drivers should be taking for their actions. Demerit points are supposed to be capturing this but they aren't given out for all incidences, and the minor offences are poorly policed/enforced in most states.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972Ren View Post
    Hi,
    personally, I am more in favour of penalising people who are involved at-fault in car accidents, rather than people who do something which does nothing more than incrementally raise the risk of having an accident. I consider crashing your car into something to be a far better indicator of the risk you pose, than doing something relatively risky without crashing your car. How about a 2 year suspension for those who actually prang a car?? Yes I agree that texting / holding phones while driving is relatively risky, but going full nazi on it as if it is some serious problem, is grossly disproportionate. If you spend some time watching car crash vids on youtube, you will realise that car accidents are caused by many things, and phones are involved in few of them. Meantime, despite sms being around for over 20years, and its use increasing, accident rates are falling.

    Nor do I wish to see Australia taking cues from anything American where law enforcement is concerned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi dvr
    My thoughts too. I also get around in a high van but actually I can see then from my car too. It is a lack of self control so perhaps as a community we need to deal with it firmly.
    Jaahn
    Like a big boot stomping on their phone right then and there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Like a big boot stomping on their phone right then and there.
    Or ask them the question: Since you can't avoid using the phone while driving would you like to have your license suspended for [insert timeframe here] or your phone disabled for [insert same length of time here]?

    No need to make it permanent or damage anything.
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    I have just purchased a 2000 Toyota Camry to replace the Xantia which is going to be scrapped. Whilst filling in the Budget Direct application for Comprehensive Insurance, I had to provide evidence of my No Claim Bonus (I have 65% for life with Shannons probably because I must be a part owner at this stage). Then I thought about it and the only two accidents I have had whilst the driving a car in 55 years was one at fault in 1964 and one not at fault in 1992. I have been re-ended twice we at a standstill waiting to turn right, both which resulted in complete car resprays at little expense to me. I decided that my lavish outlay of $3,800 for the Camry didn't need further outlays for insurance other than the minimum - Third Party Fire, Property and Theft. As the man from Ladbrokes says - BACK YOU SELF.

    Now GIO want to know how many demerit points I have accrued over the last 3 years. Service NSW (a misnomer if you have dealt with them) want me to pay THEM $22 dollars for the history I created. I have already paid for these demerit points once, You would think they would be nicer to their regular paying customers.

    In the end, the demerit points are just nice money raisers, PAY for PLAY. It is accidents that cause the drama. All my demerit points have been accumulated in the 2CV, hardly the greatest danger on the roads. There are probably few drivers that read the traffic as well as a 2CV driver. To hedge my bets, I still have Life Insurance at 73 just in case that blonde with the nice... distracts me.

    John
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    I think this whole thing has gone out of hand. As we can see right here the next step would be to shoot the offender on the spot with absolutely no guarantee there won't be another one somewhere else doing the exact same thing in the next five minutes.

    These measures show a lack of desire to allow people to take responsibility for their actions and decide whether or not they can multitask. We have laws already that can apply, but are too weak to apply them. Other countries have decided to apply the existing laws and didn't ban using your mobile whilst driving but if your driving shows it is affected by that (or whatever else) you get pulled over and pay for it (as you should).

    I think we are digging ourselves in a hole with more and more intolerant legislation aimed at treating everybody like imbeciles. Which according to the laws of Murphy guarantees that we will become. I admire New Zealand for not following this path in a few regards I know of. That was unexpected for me. Outside the anglo-saxon world there are many countries that have found a more common sense approach to these problems and I think with better results.

    For me the most important question is whether we create more imbecility by voting politicians that treat us as such, or the imbecility is pre-existent hence the politicians we deserve.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 24th January 2019 at 04:00 AM.
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    I agree Schlitzy, but remember within the Anglo-Saxon world, we are the only ones with a convict heritage and a convict mentality.

    Look what they did to Ned Kelly - an innovative, free enterprise entrepreneur, pilloried because of his homemade body armour. Now they issue similar to combat military personal and certain categories of police.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I think this whole thing has gone out of hand. As we can see right here the next step would be to shoot the offender on the spot with absolutely no guarantee there won't be another one somewhere else doing the exact same thing in the next five minutes.
    Very tempting, but maybe no.

    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    These measures show a lack of desire to allow people to take responsibility for their actions and decide whether or not they can multitask. We have laws already that can apply, but are too weak to apply them. Other countries have decided to apply the existing laws and didn't ban using your mobile whilst driving but if your driving shows it is affected by that (or whatever else) you get pulled over and pay for it (as you should).

    I think we are digging ourselves in a hole with more and more intolerant legislation aimed at treating everybody like imbeciles. Which according to the laws of Murphy guarantees that we will become. I admire New Zealand for not following this path in a few regards I know of. That was unexpected for me. Outside the anglo-saxon world there are many countries that have found a more common sense approach to these problems and I think with better results.

    For me the most important question is whether we create more imbecility by voting politicians that treat us as such, or the imbecility is pre-existent hence the politicians we deserve.
    Like I said earlier, it a bit late when there is an injury or death. By then the offender probably does take responsibility in most cases, unless they have a slick lawyer to get them off. The dead person is still dead and the injured party still has to recover. All because the offender believed they had more skill then in reality.

    It's not a case of treating people like imbeciles but as you know unless the wording of the legislation is explicit any halfway decent lawyer will likely get the offender off on a technicality if they're charged. There are drivers out there that have no problems with using a mobile safely but there are also utter idiots out there who must have won their license at the casino because they'd appear to lack the basic skills to pass a test. Legislation has to be for everyone equally and is usually based on close to the lowest standard rather then the highest. We don't have graded licenses once you get past your red and green P's so one legislation has to fit all. Yes, they have to cover imbeciles because there are a lot of them out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I agree Schlitzy, but remember within the Anglo-Saxon world, we are the only ones with a convict heritage and a convict mentality.

    Look what they did to Ned Kelly - an innovative, free enterprise entrepreneur, pilloried because of his homemade body armour. Now they issue similar to combat military personal and certain categories of police.

    John
    Hope you never get to meet the families of Sgt Kennedy or Const Lonigan and Scanlon. Or the family of three other murdered victims including an 11 y-o youth.

    https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...260daf340786ce
    Last edited by dvr; 24th January 2019 at 10:11 AM.

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    Icon6 Safety initiatives aussie style

    Key the "distracted drivers" "Die", "Kill", and anything short of shooting them summarily, is a worthwhile road safety initiative. or identify a potential "problem" then have "that driver" pay for and fit a tamperproof electronic "mobile phone communication disrupter" in their associated vehicles, including their company or work vehicle now that should cramp their style till the next distraction becomes a targetable offence.


    Insurance companies could mandate such anti distraction devices of course. The last initiative will be of course, improving our roads, removing distractions like choke points and ever lower competing speed restrictions but autonomous self driving cars will be exempt until caught out by regulators.


    Note to self, got to stop being cynical, we will never get back to commonsense self regulation and safe considerate driving, even courtesy!! as that "animal no longer exists" ...

    Ken
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    You say that as if it were a bad thing

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    This may become an anti-Beemer thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dvr View Post
    Hope you never get to meet the families of Sgt Kennedy or Const Lonigan and Scanlon. Or the family of three other murdered victims including an 11 y-o youth.

    https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...260daf340786ce
    I agree that Ned Kelly was a murderer. I think its also fair to say that there were issues between the police and the Kellys that were resolved overtime with loss of lives on both sides. I have seen the plaque to the 3 policeman in Euroa. However, Kelly has caught the imagination of artists (in particular Sidney Nolan) and singers like Paul Kelly with the song Our Sunshine:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=wwGvyHBCMeM

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post

    [...]

    Like I said earlier, it a bit late when there is an injury or death. By then the offender probably does take responsibility in most cases, unless they have a slick lawyer to get them off. The dead person is still dead and the injured party still has to recover. All because the offender believed they had more skill then in reality.
    Yeah, that is the line all "tough on crime" politicians take. You know you have been brainwashed when you can regurgitate bull feathers like that without even blinking. Like I said, other countries seem to not have this problem. Or perhaps you think it is time we accept we are inferior as a nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    It's not a case of treating people like imbeciles but as you know unless the wording of the legislation is explicit any halfway decent lawyer will likely get the offender off on a technicality if they're charged. There are drivers out there that have no problems with using a mobile safely but there are also utter idiots out there who must have won their license at the casino because they'd appear to lack the basic skills to pass a test. Legislation has to be for everyone equally and is usually based on close to the lowest standard rather then the highest. We don't have graded licenses once you get past your red and green P's so one legislation has to fit all. Yes, they have to cover imbeciles because there are a lot of them out there.
    Yes it is. You admit it yourself in the second sentence. And if you are afraid of lawyers just pay the best of them to write the law and make the wording explicit (as you say) such that there is no wiggle room. Dangerous driving has clear metrics that can be tested especially these days with everything on camera. It is no longer the time of "he said she said".

    It is like I said. We are weak and the government knows and breeds weakness through brainwashing and legislation for imbeciles. It works for the government.

    In other news (WA) some idiot has been finally fined for being too slow on the freeway. 28km/h below the speed limit. Go the police!
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 26th January 2019 at 04:14 AM.
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    The elephant in the room as far as country road safety is concerned is not mobile phone use but the state of the road network which was built in the 1960's and 1970's but is used by 21st century B Double trucks. It wouldn't be so bad if there was still 1970's road maintenance around. So there is steady string of crashes and deaths that are ignored because infrastructure spending in the country doesn't win anyone government. Fortunately the 203 has old school ground clearance so it doesn't mind being put into road ditches to avoid log trucks and the like on narrow roads.

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    Schlitz disagree with you on phone use while driving. Sure, it is not a problem to answer just to acknowledge a call - ok, driving right now i'll call you back. Unfortunately many don't have that discipline.
    What could be sooo important to have the conversation right then and there without pulling over???
    You of all people know how far one travels at a given speed.

    My driving record is very good in spite of not caring about speed limits too much However, i was caught out by my overconfidence just by changing station on the car radio in fairly heavy traffic travelling <50km/h.
    Way ahead somebody slowed/stopped and i got a surprise (and the guy in front ) - while i saw it all coming it was too late and i clipped his car's left rear. Minor damage, but lesson learnt.
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    Like I said, there are already laws in force that can be applied, no need for blanket new laws.

    And just for disclosure, no I don't use my mobile when driving because I don't think I can do it safely. It is like anything else. I am the judge of what I can or can not do safely, not some bureaucrat or some politician. Same goes for speed and so on.

    One country I mentioned before where phone use is legal when driving is Sweden. I have lived there and I didn't see erratic behaviour on the roads to the same extent I see here. But that is because they have a strong driver education, and it is hard to get a license there. Not every idiot can. They also drive hard and unforgiving. You need to commit and keep your end of the deal up so I guess people are focused on what they're doing. They also have a demerit point system but alongside a number of offences command immediate loss of license, not points. For instance failure to give way. This is considered a very basic rule and in my opinion one of the most important accident root cause. This applies to most situations on the road like for instance lane changing. You can not cut someone in because it is considered you failed to give way. You can not enter a major road from a t-junction cutting traffic like a bone head for the same reason. And so on.

    Have a look on Dash Cam owners Australia on Youtube and you'll see a lot of things that wouldn't happen in Sweden because people would lose their license very quickly. Here, things like that are not policed. Here you would be blamed for not reducing speed and I am sure such incidents are counted in the statistics as "speed at fault" accidents. This leads to this brainwashing mantra that if you reduce your speed you can avoid any accident.

    Which works until you cut in a truck and get creamed.

    Or try to merge on the freeway at 60km/h with traffic at 100km/h. How many times have you had some idiot stop in the merging lane because they were too slow and got scared when they couldn't merge? These cretins put every car behind them in danger especially on turnpikes with poor visibility (quite a few where I live) because nobody expects to find a pile of stationary cars around the corner when getting on the freeway so they're going to ram your arse. So what do you do? Drive slowly until you can see the merger? By then it is too late to get at traffic speed.

    Nah.

    We need to apply the laws we have, more driver education and a differentiated license system not more blanket laws. Most importantly I think driver education (at current laws). Look up the posts on Twitter about the driver that was fined for being too slow. Most posters had no idea it was illegal. How can people like that have a license? Not to mention many other laws and rules about merging, overtaking, give way rights, behaviour in roundabouts and so on. Very, very poor. Pathetic driver population.

    And to show that current legislation works, I will give you another example from a country where the police didn't have the means to enforce the law for a long time. The driving population got slack and then the accident rate started to climb. The police made the point and got money, bought cars, hired people and they went out on the road as they should. Immediately people found out how good their driving was and after an initial spike in offences, fines, and lost licenses drivers got their act together and now it is a pleasure to drive around there. You don't see the kind of things I mentioned before. No extra legislation needed.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 26th January 2019 at 02:53 PM.
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