Are fuel prices on the rise for the holiday season and no protest?
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Thread: Are fuel prices on the rise for the holiday season and no protest?

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    Icon5 Are fuel prices on the rise for the holiday season and no protest?

    We love driving our French cars, but so far we haven’t adopted the French motorist reaction to the attempt by their President Emmanuel Macron to impose a form of SIN tax to make Petrol and Diesel so dear that motorists will be forced to get rid of those cars and buy new ones. Many older French motorists are angry that a government that encouraged them to buy Diesels for economy, were now penalising them, so they donned the yellow high visibility vests they must carry in their motor cars and challenged the government in the streets and won a tax reprieve.


    In Australia it was recently reported that motorists “were being ripped off” due to company outlets lifting fuel prices AND also benefitting from the widest profit margin between the wholesale price and the selling price, a full 20 cents a litre at a time of falling world wide crude prices and now the industry sponsored price cycle to hike prices at the pump.

    We don’t (yet) have to carry yellow vests but are expected to quietly accept the price hike and only a weak protest so far. Contrast that with the successful Paris "yellow vest" riots...

    https://www.vox.com/world/2018/12/3/...vests-pictures

    All around Melbourne prices rose and seem set to rise higher as the Christmas Holiday season approaches, so it was with some trepidation that I drove out to Costco at Epping to fill the Megane.


    At the pumps I was pleasantly surprised to see Diesel (likely target of sin taxing, in Australia) was 133.7 cents per litre and even more surprising to see that RON 98 petrol was the same price as Diesel, need to fill the Laguna at that..

    The 91 RON unleaded price was a low 117.7 cents a litre so a 16 cent margin below the Diesel and premium 98 RON. Far call from the days of the 5 cent margin when diesel was that much cheaper. So perhaps some profit in there now.

    So with that thought, we drove back home, but on the way I revised my thinking when I observed the Shell Diesel there was 20 cents a litre above that.


    Wonder what the APCO and United country pricing is like at Ballarat and Bendigo, is that rising or falling?

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    Daughter is just back from Toulon. They were in the middle of the yellow jacket protests. Toll booths vandalized (they still have ticket machines for tolling !) the government must have lots of Euros on tolls; motorist held up - son in law took 6 hours to drive to Milan instead of the usual 2.5 or so.
    Was told that even older people like you and mum were involved in the protests.
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    In Perth last week there was a difference of up to FIFTY cents a litre between petrol and diesel prices!
    ie diesel was fifty cents a litre dearer!

    If that is not price gouging I don't know what is.
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    Lets see ... If I put $40 of "cheap" petrol into my old shitbox.... say 35litres. I'd probably get an entire 160kms down the road before coasting to a halt. Or I could put $40 of diesel into my wifes modern shitbox and drive probably 600kms. Guess which one I choose

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    Let me guess Shane. You ended up putting $40 worth of cheap petrol in your wife's car and put $40 of diesel in your own.

    You guys have decided that you will spend Christmas at home this year.

    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Daughter is just back from Toulon. They were in the middle of the yellow jacket protests. Toll booths vandalized (they still have ticket machines for tolling !) the government must have lots of Euros on tolls; motorist held up - son in law took 6 hours to drive to Milan instead of the usual 2.5 or so.
    Was told that even older people like you and mum were involved in the protests.
    Jobo, Just for you, I have casually observed the protesting and like many wonder where this is going, as other agenda finds expression in the yellow vest movement.

    I found this article today and it has interesting speculation on the where's and whatfore's and M. Le Pen was mentioned on A/Frogs by one of our thinking members prior to the French Election. You might like to read the backstory here (hope the link works)

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/1...=Evening_Blend


    Ken

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    Thanks Ken! All a bit too complicated for me to follow. As with all unrest it is either inequity or greed that fuels it. Not sure what it is in France. While by and large we don't discuss it with my sister (who is a bit of a lefty and lives in Paris) and son in law who is more of a righty, it seems to me that there is a lot of inequity mixed with too much social/ethnic diversity that came about too quickly in an economy with reducing employment opportunities?
    Even though my sister is a lefty, they are doing quite well. He is a banker and she works as an IT trainer/manager in a large organisation.
    Suspect she'd in with the pinko group in Australia
    Son in law is on a contract and his job depends on delivering outcomes. Interestingly, the workforce he is responsible for (about 90 and mainly contractors as well) comprise many Italians.
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    Hi,
    In Sydney, prices have been falling in recent months, and again in recent days, so luckily not heading up into the holiday period here.

    https://petrolspy.com.au/map/graph/sydney

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    Hah I see some very high prices between the majors. but then note the disclaimer


    DISCLAIMER: By using PetrolSpy Australia you acknowledge this is a free independent service and may not reflect current or accurate petrol prices or petrol station locations. Any information published on PetrolSpy Australia is not verified by PetrolSpy Australia and is intended to be used as a guide and for your personal use only. It is your responsibility to check the accuracy of the information you intend to rely on. PetrolSpy Australia will not be held responsible for any incorrect or misleading data found on this website nor for any decision made or action taken by you relying on any information you obtain from this website.
    If you disagree with the above policies, you have to close this website immediately.
    Useful as a guide If you are driving past and the link is handy for checking the two Melbourne Costco outlets. Metro seem to have the cheap pricing in Sydney and Melbourne if you trust their fuel. Through as some claim might be the same fuel depot supplying the 20 cent a litre dearer sites.

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    Where do you think you are?

    Last australian protester was Ned Kelly. Now we just bend over.

    In Perth the price difference reached about 30c over the last few weeks depending on where you refuel (this is for 91 fuel).

    Looks like the only protest we have access to is going electric and recharging off the grid. It will happen sooner rather than later and it is going to be driven by of all this rubbish with the petrol prices.

    Looking forward to universal fit electric conversion kits becoming available.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Where do you think you are?

    Last australian protester was Ned Kelly. Now we just bend over.

    In Perth the price difference reached about 30c over the last few weeks depending on where you refuel (this is for 91 fuel).

    Looks like the only protest we have access to is going electric and recharging off the grid. It will happen sooner rather than later and it is going to be driven by of all this rubbish with the petrol prices.

    Looking forward to universal fit electric conversion kits becoming available.
    Yeah that was my hope too. In America you can still do so many things at home, regassing your cars air conditioning, rewiring in your home, plumbing and drainage, with codes published for the DIY person to follow, and converting cars to run on alternative fuels/energy sources and plenty of DIY kits on offer.

    Here in the ultimate country of outback ingenuity and work around fixes in years past, everything is now over regulated. I think more to protect tradie territory than the public in some cases and, to move your car to a new power source like electric is a real nightmare judging from the regulations in a past post on Aussie Frogs. Need to get engineers certification so it is obvious the powers to be don't want experimenters and canny people the right to work on their own projects.


    Sad that, sort of restricts that to the rich or those game to try and dodge the regulators.

    Ken
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post

    [...]

    I think more to protect tradie territory than the public in some cases

    [...]
    Yeap.

    Not only that, but in america they have legislation that all documentation necessary to fix cars (and computers, and so on) has to be made publicly available. It was a big fight and it had to go all the way to appealing to the freedom of speech amendment but they won in the end (car companies try to make it as unintelligible as possible, of course).

    It is like I said it is. We are a weak nation.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Yeap.

    Not only that, but in america they have legislation that all documentation necessary to fix cars (and computers, and so on) has to be made publicly available. It was a big fight and it had to go all the way to appealing to the freedom of speech amendment but they won in the end (car companies try to make it as unintelligible as possible, of course).

    It is like I said it is. We are a weak nation.
    In my apprenticeship years the militant unions regarded the "right to strike" and political sway and say on the political "masters" of the day as an example of a strong nation but nowadays they have all, become "progressive" in their thinking base and easier for outright thugs to dictate but not strike, perhaps the union organisers no longer get double pay etc. during a prolonged strike? Times have changed as media massages minds.


    Funny to see the heaviest historical users of 457 visas, try and re-invent themselves as anti 457 visa progressives???? but that might be too political for here..


    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Hah I see some very high prices between the majors. but then note the disclaimer
    .

    Hi,
    Sure it is saying it can't be relied on for the current price right now on every petrol station, but the historical average shows quite clearly that prices are not on the rise into the holiday season.

    In fact, they are heading down into the holiday season, contrary to the widely held myth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Looks like the only protest we have access to is going electric and recharging off the grid..
    Or buying at the cheapest petrol station, which you can identify thanks to the state government mandated fuel price information available on a number of apps.

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    Yeah, but you're still paying overinflated prices even then and you're still giving money to oil companies and their servants.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Icon10 Socking it to them

    Originally Posted by 1972Ren
    Hi,
    Sure it is saying it can't be relied on for the current price right now on every petrol station, but the historical average shows quite clearly that prices are not on the rise into the holiday season.

    In fact, they are heading down into the holiday season, contrary to the widely held myth.
    My reply Yep I guess this is the source of "your myth" a statement made by Rod Simms in a bid to apply downward pressure on what is clearly shown as an out of sync upward wholesale/retail profit/ price margin shift.

    Furthermore, the ACCC said petrol retailers are charging high gross margins for petrol, more than 50 per cent higher than their 16-year average.
    Motorists can use comparison apps
    Mr Sims has urged motorists to use free petrol comparison apps like MotorMouth, GasBuddy and Fuel Check (for NSW motorists) to put downward pressure on prices.
    "If you look at the various apps, you can see there's a number of service stations with petrol prices lower than the higher price ones.
    "You can save yourself money with just a small amount of effort — that's the best way to keep petrol retailers honest."
    Despite the factors beyond consumers' control — like the weaker Australian dollar and OPEC oil cuts — the ACCC found that Australian petrol retailers have been charging higher margins.
    The ACCC noted that average gross retail margins hit a record high in 2017-18.
    "Current gross retail margins in the five largest cities are now over 50 per cent above the 16-year average since the ACCC began tracking this data," Mr Sims said.
    Pretty lame effort really by the ACCC! It has the responsibility on behalf of consumers to ensure that motorists get the most competitive prices at the pump. clearly the ACCC does not have the power to regulate and control , it did at least put the oil industry on notice as it did in late August, but urging motorists to use apps that are just as likely supported by the same industry "informed sources network" is an admission of ineffectiveness in its charter. Threats of big fines if caught out, and coercion doesn't prevent rip-offs and sneaky margin adjustments.

    It seems only a return to a Prices justification tribunal hearing structure where the Oil companies must apply for and justify in public testimony a reason to jack up wholesale/retail pricing would be better for motorists as it would cut out the 20 to 30 cent hikes the industry presently use to boost the average over time prices of fuel. The immediate rise and slow fall and all orchestrated by the Industry itself, to create an illusion of competition, nothing else. A nasty charade.

    A tribunal/prices commissioner public hearing might restore public confidence that the motoring public are getting a fair shake for their dollar.

    Take it up with the ACCC. or vote in a new government that will restore a Prices Justification Tribunal ?


    Ken

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    We can dream. Why would it be in the interest of any government, especially overpromising ones, to reduce fuel prices when higher prices increase government revenue with the help of double taxation on top?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    My reply Yep I guess this is the source of "your myth"

    Hi,
    The myth I was referring to was that prices are or do head up into the holiday period, which is not happening.

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    Icon10 DNFT memo...., genuine "at pump" prices today. (as at 2pm 19/12/2018)

    Memo to self, Well, the pump price today at Costco was 116.7 for 91 ULP, 98 ULP was 133.7 cents per litre and Diesel 131.7 so something that others can aim to beat, in benchmark pricing. Lots of motorists lined up filling vehicle tanks and storage containers, probably in anticipation of a 20 to 30 cent price hike for Christmas break.


    Not that much change at our other majors, though I did notice for those using LPG the price has gone down to between 60 and 69 cents at a couple of outlets.

    Note I didn't bother checking the Shell outlets nearbye, they can do their own marketing.

    Ken

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    Hi,
    interesting story from the paper today.

    Christmas relief for motorists as ACCC says petrol prices likely to keep falling
    By Helen Vines
    Dec. 20 (ABC) -- Motorists are being advised to delay filling up their cars until closer to Christmas to take advantage of falling petrol prices.
    The latest quarterly report by Australian's consumer watchdog shows petrol prices hit a 10-year high in October, but have fallen significantly since then.
    Prices continue to fall in major capital cities, according to Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) chair Rod Sims.
    "Santa Claus is delivering for Australian motorists with prices that should be around $1.25 a litre and I think they've got further to fall in the run-up to Christmas," Mr Sims said.
    "Drivers, if they can, should delay filling up until closer to Christmas. We do not expect prices in these cities (Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide) to increase until later in December."
    "Drivers in Perth should fill up on Christmas Eve as Monday is consistently the cheapest day of the week to buy petrol."
    Mr Sims said people who live outside the five largest cities can use fuel price websites and apps to find the cheapest petrol stations in their towns.
    He said fluctuations in crude oil prices were the main reason for the dramatic swings in petrol prices in recent months, with a peak in October of 159.9 cents per litre.
    But by the end of November the price had declined by more than 30 cents to 128.5 cents per litre.

    Shop around for good deals: ACCC

    Mr Sims largely blamed OPEC for the surge in crude oil prices, after it cut production, along with other oil-producing nations like Russia.
    OPEC is a group of oil exporting nations that can agree to restrict oil supply to maintain prices.
    The weakening Australian dollar also increased the wholesale price for petrol, compounding drivers' pain.
    "The main reason why petrol prices have come down by 30 cents per litre in last couple of months is the OPEC cartel is not hanging together as well, which is great news for Australian motorists," Mr Sims said.
    "The OPEC cartel is the enemy of Australian motorists.
    "The worse they do, the less cohesive they are, the better off Australian motorists are.
    "So that's the big change and around that you've got these petrol price cycles, which are irritating.

    "The only good point to make is that at the low point of these cycles you can often buy petrol below cost. So you do need to time when you buy petrol."

    "Shop around because there are still big differences. In most of the cities you've got people still charging around $1.40 and others charging as low as $1.15.
    "You shouldn't really be paying more than $1.25, but in all cities you'll find petrol stations charging less than that so it's well worth you shopping round."
    Mr Sims predicted prices would rise again after Christmas but "they wont get back to those past very high levels".
    "We want international oil prices to stay low, or really to stay at historical levels," he said.
    "What we don't want is the OPEC cartel trying to push those prices above historical levels because that costs the Australian motorists and the economy way too much."

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    Nothing of course contradicts anything said on this thread (That is if an entity actually reads and comprehends) what is actually (not assumed) to be said

    As I pointed out, confirmation at the pump (in my case Costco pricing) has confirmed the fall of Diesel and Ron 98 to 133.7 at the pump (91 Ron remained at 117.7 cents per litre) I can also con firm that as at 20/12/2018 the fuel price had fallen to 130.7 cents per Litre for Diesel, 133.7 for 98 RON and 115.7 for 91 Ron ULP.


    Not only that but there is more today 22/12/2018 Diesel had fallen to 129.7 cents per litre, 98 RON had fallen to 132.7 cents per litre
    and 91 Ron remained at 115.7 cents per litre and of course by the huge lineup of vehicles waiting to fill up, this was quite popular with motorists.


    While at Echuca I caught up with the Riverine Herald Articles and noted that on Monday December 10th 2018 The Page one article "soaring Fuel Prices hit twin towns hard" and went on to say.

    A LACK of competition in Town has Echuca-Moama motorists forking out about 30 cents per litre more at the petrol pump compared to our metropolitan counterparts. While prices in the twin towns have been hovering at $150 cents per (CPL) for unleaded 91, some Melbourne suburbs have been averaging 125-130 CPL At the time of writing motormouth.com.au had the average price of Echuca petrol pegged in the High 140's with Shell Coles on Ogilvie Avenue the most expensive drop in town at 155.9 CPL at the other end of the spectrum the twin United's were retailing 147.9 CPL - hardly bargain basement by anyone's standards

    Shell Ogilvie Avenue has been one of the stand out examples for me especially when compared with their Bendigo outlets as examples of competition having little or no effect, but it does seem that the bad publicity as mentioned in the paper (Riverine Herald)has worked at least in the short term as That Coles/Shell prices as shown on the pumps and outside price board had dropped dramatically (still across the board much higher than the Costco base prices, but unlike other shell outlets their LPG price was amazing!! 53 cents per litre).

    So there has been some effect in this major Tourist town on one station, but from the look of the others fuel outlets in Echuca and Moama there seem to be lots of opposition to lowering prices.

    I noted that as I drove through Bendigo the lowest Diesel price I saw was 7 cents per litre higher than Costco, so called in at Costco and filled with Diesel on my way past tonight. The wholesale store was full of family shoppers with packed trolleys moving through the sales registers.

    A few messages in that popularity.


    I hope every one else is finding even cheaper fuel prices in the run up to this Christmas.

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Nothing of course contradicts anything said on this thread

    Ken
    Hi,
    it completely contradicts the idea of petrol prices rising into the Christmas break, which is after all, the title of the thread, though that is the only part I am commenting on.
    In Sydney, prices continue to fall for the 10th day, and that covers right up till Christmas Eve.
    I have watched this over a number of years, and have documented the price charts around Christmas. Prices have never once in the last decade risen into the Christmas break, as a matter of interest, so the idea that they do is just a myth.

    https://petrolspy.com.au/map/graph/sydney

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    Icon10 Canny shoppers and rewards to be had, no real effort. Happy Christmas!

    Huh

    One has to wonder at comprehension and creation of myths? , no one here has suggested anything at all, are you trying to start a flame war out of nothing? Or create another myth?


    But we should be careful of some "Free" apps being pushed. There have been warnings that some are actually acting as spy programs after mere use, then reporting back intelligence from peoples computers and phones.

    I guess our helpful seasink would have the computer smarts and the ability to check that "myth" out. I can't be bothered, too much else to do.

    And, it seems I am consistently getting lowest prices with other purchases as well - bought a tin of biscuits at Costco on impulse for a casual Christmas present, just over $11, and see today that at a local grocery outlet, price for the same package is shown on the shelf just a shade under $20, not that I am worried about that. cents here and there do add up.

    For all those either having Christmas at home or travelling take care, buy wisely and enjoy good fellowship and all the best to you and yours. To lonely elves and others hope your new year is better than the last! Same for the challenged, may your new year reward the effort put into your relationships.


    Ken

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    Oh sorry if it came across that way.
    I thought you were saying the petrol prices were or would rise into Christmas, but if you do already know they actually go the other way into this holiday period, then that is all fine. This myth is often spread by ill informed axe grinder types on other forums, and the tabloid news, so it is easy for trusting types to get the wrong idea. Anyway, it is refreshing to see that is not the case on Aussiefrogs.

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