Newcastle Electric Vehicle display 23-25 Nov, test drives ? Inspect !
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Thread: Newcastle Electric Vehicle display 23-25 Nov, test drives ? Inspect !

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    Default Newcastle Electric Vehicle display 23-25 Nov, test drives ? Inspect !

    Hi
    This coming weekend in conjunction with other unimportant activities in Newcastle city there is a display of electric vehicles in the Mall. The AEVA is providing a selection of vehicles of their members and manufacturers display cars. {I would have brought my Tesla but it is in being cleaned that day }

    Newcastle Council, in parallel with the V8 Supercars event on 23-25 November are running Entertain Newcastle. One of the major events of Entertain Newcastle, the Newcastle Innovation Showcase will feature an EV display and EV test rides run by Australian Electric Vehicle Association and supported by Tesla Owners Club Australia members in Hunter Street Mall.

    There will be a Renault Zoe & Kangoo, Outlander PHEV, Tesla X & S, Leaf, and motorbikes,etc there to inspect, be taken on drives, talk BS with the people there(eg me !), engage the AEVA members and generally ignore the noise from the non electric vehicles in the suburb not far away I am involved in bringing some up from Sydney and will get to try them out on the way Electrifing drive ! Then will be at the display for some shifts on the days. And I get to drive one home and charge it at night.

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    Any people from around here or here for other reasons are invited to come and look, talk, touch. Introduce your self to me if you like and talk French cars too
    Newcastle EV showcase - 23rd-25th November 2018 | AEVA
    Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 18th November 2018 at 08:15 PM.

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    Hi
    Update, the display is there with several Teslas, Kangoo, Zoe, Leaf, Mitubishi PHEV, Zero bike, Fonzerelli scooter and lots of information and chats with owners.
    Two Teslas were doing 10 minute rides for interested people for a small gold coin donation. Busy yesterday ! I never saw a person return without a grin, even the younger people
    The display area in the Mall, is free to access but you will need to use public transport because thats the way it is in the city center currently with the race. Free shuttle bus 110 from the interchange.
    Jaahn

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    Newcastle Electric Vehicle display 23-25 Nov, test drives ? Inspect !-20181123_144903.jpgNewcastle Electric Vehicle display 23-25 Nov, test drives ? Inspect !-20181122_092442.jpgNewcastle Electric Vehicle display 23-25 Nov, test drives ? Inspect !-20181122_102333.jpgNewcastle Electric Vehicle display 23-25 Nov, test drives ? Inspect !-20181125_085208.jpgHi the display was good. Lots of people came through and looked and looked and looked at the Teslas, and some even asked about the other funny French things and others. BS sells and the Teslas could do party tricks as well. BS BS BS, but that is life today.
    Nice cars but money money money too !! And gees do the owners like to excercise their ego telling the world about them, and doing test drives. Worse than French car owners
    I will do a little review of the French electric cars in the Renault forum, if you are interested look there
    Jaahn
    PS you always wanted to know about the little man in the black box who drives these smart cars
    Last edited by jaahn; 26th November 2018 at 10:25 AM.

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    Icon14 Pure Electric vehicles and hydbrid systems for thoee considering

    Interesting I came across an article by Rud Istvan on the comparative merits of the pure electric vehicle versus hybrid electric vehicles, lot of technical information. Haakon first introduced me to this author Rud Istvan as something of a ingenious person with a fine mind for technical solutions and the holder of many patents, but that was years back on Aussie frogs, here is the link to the article and some information from the article with particular reference to Citroen hybrid vehicles getting a mention early in the article.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/...-common-sense/



    This post develops common sense conclusions for the following practical economic and environmental categories/cases:
    -Start/Stop may make sense for both cases, but Milds do not;
    -Full Hybrids almost always make sense for both cases;
    -Plug Ins do or don’t make sense depending on the architecture;
    -EVs never make sense for either case.
    Hybrids
    Simple start/stop makes economic and environmental sense by itself when the automatic transmission technology is changed from hydraulic fluid coupling to electronic dual clutch mechanical transmissions (DCT). Ford has announced that by 2019 all Ford transmissions (including pickups) will be DCT (which can simulate manual). Even without start/stop, the DCT alone gains 5-8% fuel efficiency by eliminating hydraulic fluid coupling losses. With a beefed up starter battery enabling start/stop, the full fuel efficiency savings are 10-13% while the incremental cost is minimal, maybe $100 for a beefier starter battery.

    Mild hybridization has been tried several times, but it has almost never worked economically. There are two problems: a battery capable of accepting regen charging energy is pretty big if having acceptable vehicle life, and the extra machinery for using that electrical energy for whatever purpose.

    The only present commercial mild system is Valeo (a belt driven bigger combined starter/alternator for both regen and traction boost, plus a supercap plus PbA ‘hybrid’ storage system). Valeo’s system is only on a few of Peugeot’s Citroen diesels in Europe]
    .

    This article has some interesting conclusions for those that are considering (for whatever reason) the purchase and long term practical use of electric vehicles (pure EV or Hydrid) as at this time of development and practical use. worth a read to those that want to learn more as I want to learn, just in case I make the transition to an electric or hybrid system on my way to my next vehicle purchase.


    In any replies to this post please keep to the technical aspects and ignore any temptation to stray to forbidden argumental territory.!

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    Hi Ken Perhaps the site is just not working just now ??????but I could not get that link ! I will try later. Jaahn
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    Hi Russell
    I would be much less worried about the chance of fire from the lithium batteries than the risk from 50-70 liters of petrol. But that seems to be not even on peoples radar.
    AND there are different types of lithium batteries that have different risks. Cars and houses have the lowest risk. Laptops might be the second highest but people carry them around without concern. But you knew that probably anyway
    Jaahn
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    Icon14 Best I can do Jaahn -apology for length and technical jargon

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi Ken Perhaps the site is just not working just now ??????but I could not get that link ! I will try later. Jaahn
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    Don't know what all that is about, here is the copy of the article from my original link - can't find it on site now.

    By Rud Istvan,

    This is the first of two loosely related technology posts . In full disclosure, the details stem from my financial interests in energy storage materials and related topics, having spent much time and money since 2007 on fundamental now globally issued energy storage materials patents for supercapacitance (the Helmholtz double layer physics that creates lightning in thunderstorms). Some of the info cited below is slightly dated because I was too lazy to make everything current. Some of this info was borrowed from my ebook The Arts of Truth and from a 2017 Climate Etc post. All conclusions nevertheless remain valid.

    This post’s message (the abstract, if this were a normal clisci peer reviewed paper) is simple. Hybrid vehicles make economic and ‘climate’ sense. Plug ins may or may not depending on their architecture. Full electric vehicles (EVs) make neither economic nor climate sense.
    Terms
    There are various levels of vehicle electrification, so some definitions are needed. Hybrids all involve some degree of electrification of an otherwise fossil fueled vehicle. There are three generally accepted levels:

    1. Simple engine off at idle, aka start/stop. This is not as technically easy as it sounds, since hydraulic fluid coupled automatic transmissions must be fully redesigned and starter batteries beefed up. Depending on drive circumstances, idle off can save about 5% fuel efficiency.

    2. Regenerative braking, where the vehicle’s kinetic energy is recaptured to electrical storage and then reused in some fashion rather than dissipated as heat. Depending on vehicle size/weight and drive circumstances, regen braking can save about 7-9% fuel efficiency. Combined with idle off it is commonly known as mild hybridization, and typically cited mild hybrid values are something less than 15% net fuel efficiency gain. (There aren’t a lot of milds out there to provide real data.)

    3. Full hybridization, which includes idle off, regen braking, and electric acceleration assist (plus some degree of electric only slow speed short distance motoring). Full hybrid fuel efficiency gains can be as high as 35-45%. Prius is the best known. Full details follow.
    Then there are Plug in Hybrids (misleadingly aka PHEV), which can motor for some significant distance under battery alone. These come in two basic architectures. One is an ordinary full hybrid with a different or bigger battery, like the Prius Prime. The other is actually a range extended electric vehicle (not a true hybrid), like the Chevy Volt. The idea is to remove EV range anxiety, since a gasoline engine kicks in only when the battery is nearly exhausted. Details follow.

    Then there are true electric vehicles like the Chevy Bolt or Tesla models. These operate on battery electric power alone, must be recharged from the grid, and commonly present ‘range anxiety’ for some subset of ordinary car use.

    This post develops common sense conclusions for the following practical economic and environmental categories/cases:

    -Start/Stop may make sense for both cases, but Milds do not;

    -Full Hybrids almost always make sense for both cases;

    -Plug Ins do or don’t make sense depending on the architecture;

    -EVs never make sense for either case.

    Hybrids

    Simple start/stop makes economic and environmental sense by itself when the automatic transmission technology is changed from hydraulic fluid coupling to electronic dual clutch mechanical transmissions (DCT). Ford has announced that by 2019 all Ford transmissions (including pickups) will be DCT (which can simulate manual). Even without start/stop, the DCT alone gains 5-8% fuel efficiency by eliminating hydraulic fluid coupling losses. With a beefed up starter battery enabling start/stop, the full fuel efficiency savings are 10-13% while the incremental cost is minimal, maybe $100 for a beefier starter battery.

    Mild hybridization has been tried several times, but it has almost never worked economically. There are two problems: a battery capable of accepting regen charging energy is pretty big if having acceptable vehicle life, and the extra machinery for using that electrical energy for whatever purpose. The only present commercial mild system is Valeo (a belt driven bigger combined starter/alternator for both regen and traction boost, plus a supercap plus PbA ‘hybrid’ storage system). Valeo’s system is only on a few of Peugeot’s Citroen diesels in Europe.

    Full hybridization like the Toyota Prius or my 2007 Ford Hybrid Escape [i] works in several synergistic ways to improve fuel efficiency, and makes more economic sense in larger vehicles. (Note, in 2007, both hybrid technologies were identical, just scaled to different vehicles. Ford traded its European small diesel technology to Toyota in return for the Toyota Prius hybrid technology, no cash exchanged nor royalties owed.)

    Full hybrid idle-off saves ~5% depending on traffic. Regenerative braking saves another ~7-9% depending on traffic. The additional power and torque of the electric motor enables two further major savings. First, the internal combustion engine (ICE) can be downsized, saving both weight and fuel.

    My AWD Escape hybrid uses a small 1.5L I4 engine yet is functionally comparable to the heavier AWD Escape V6. Second, the ICE can be converted from the Otto cycle to the Atkinson cycle. Atkinson ICE saves about 20% in fuel economy, but at the expense of significant torque loss. (Typical Otto ICE vehicles are ~26-30% thermally efficient, the lower number from regular gas compression ratios, the higher from premium gas compression ratios. Higher octane rating enables higher compression ratios and more efficiency.)

    The newest Prius I4 5th generation 2018 Atkinson ICE gets an incredible 37% thermal efficiency on regular! Atkinson ICE torque loss doesn’t matter in a full hybrid; the electric machine provides more than the lost torque. The 2018 Prius family gets combined 52MPG. It couples a 95 HP 1.8L Atkinson I4 with a 71 HP electric motor for a total of 192 HP in a mid size sedan.
    There are two 2018 Prius battery choices. All models except the Prime use NiMH, same as my Escape and as Prius from its 2000 launch. The Prius Prime is their Plug In. No different than the other 2018 models in any respect EXCEPT a lithium ion battery (LIB), onboard charging, and a different battery control software scheme.

    To get ,10 year.100,000 miles life NiMH needs to be floated between about 45% and 55% state of charge (SoC). It is only possible to motor a couple of miles at speeds under 20MPH before the engine kicks in so the alternator can recharge the NiMH traction battery. LIB allows the Plug In Prius Prime to motor 25 miles at any speed before the ICE kicks in. Prime 240V recharge time is just 2 hours. Warranty is 10 years or 100,000 miles, same as the NiMH non-plug in versions. Toyota’s only real incremental Prime costs are the incremental LIB over NiMH and associated onboard AC/DC charging electronics. Yet Toyota charges a $3,100 Prime premium (starting Prime 2018 MSRP $27,300). Makes sense for Toyota, and for enviro customers who want plug in cache. Whether it makes climate sense is a question explored below using the Volt as the example.

    Prius comfortably seats 5 along with 24.6 cubic feet (cf) of cargo space (or 65cf with the rear seat folded down). Range is 633 miles from ~52 mpg. 2018 price is ≥$24,200 depending on model and trim. Toyota unsurprisingly sold ~1,170,000 Prius from 2010 (year of Volt introduction) through yearend 2015.

    Now compare the alternate architecture, a range extended EV like the Chevy Volt. The 2016 Volt is powered by two electric motors providing only 149 HP, fed from a 18.4 Kwh LIB providing a marketed ~50 mile EV only range, twice that of the 2018 Prius Prime. The original all-electric range was chosen because about 2/3 of US urban trips are under 40 miles. With a 240V charger, Volt recharging takes 4.5 hours (with 120V charging, it takes 13 hours).

    The battery is warrantied for only 8 years or 100,000 miles. The LIB battery weights 405# (189kg) and is a 5.5 foot long T shaped monster. The range extending gasoline engine is a 1.5 liter 101HP I4 driving an onboard 54 Kw generator. With a full tank of gas and a fully charged battery, Volt range is ~408 miles. Seating is essentially only 4, and cargo capacity is only 10.6cf. For those middling vehicle values compared to Prius Prime the MSRP is ≥$33170.

    Unsurprisingly, Chevy has only sold about 117,000 Volts from 2010 launch through YE 2015 (the same time frame as Prius sales above, so a fair comparison). The comparable sales data say the Volt does not make much economic sense.

    Do plug ins make environmental sense? Lets take the Volt, because it is more reliant on the generation grid.
    EPA fuel economy ratings are required by law to be prominently placed on all new vehicles for sale in the US. This familiar sticker provides three numbers: city, highway, and combined (55/45) mpg.
    Ambiguity arises from the changed plug in meaning of ‘miles per gallon’.

    Plug in range extended EVs like the Chevy Volt operate partly on a battery recharged from the grid, so no gallons for those miles. Volt gets a combined 37mpg in extended range mode using its gasoline engine to generate electricity. If a Volt never traveled more than about 40 miles before being recharged from the grid, its engine would never start and it would never use any gallons of gasoline. Its combined miles per gallon would be very ambiguous since division by zero is mathematically undefined.

    To solve this very fundamental problem the EPA did two things. First, they calculated an energy equivalent 93 MPGe for electric ‘no gallons’ mode. We shall see that this equivalence is based on faulty assumptions. Then they explicitly assumed the Volt travels about 45% on battery alone, giving a weighted average of 60 MPGe. Except in environmental reality the Volt cannot possibly get that ‘official’ EPA mileage.

    One gallon of automotive gasoline contains about 132 megajoules of heat energy. Volt’s combined ‘extended range’ (using its engine/generator) 37 MPG rating is about (132/37) 3.6 megajoules/mile. One KWh is also 3.6 megajoules; the gasoline rating is equivalent to 1 KWh/mile. This of course includes the engine/generator’s thermal losses, which are proven by the Volt’s exhaust and radiator.

    The EPA sticker also says the Volt gets 36 KWh per 100 miles when the battery is powering the Volt’s electric motors! That is only 0.36 KWh/mile, 2.8 times the efficiency from the same electric motors! This discrepancy proves that the EPA MPGe rating does not include the fact that grid electricity generation is on average about 45% efficient (mixed now about half and half coal at 34% and CCGT at 61%), with up to 10% of that lost in transmission and another 10% or so in distribution.

    Power plants have smokestacks and cooling towers just like Volts have exhausts and radiators. Correcting for the laws of thermodynamics (which were only applied to Volt’s extended range mode), the Volt operates in battery mode about (.36/[0.45*0.8]) 1KWh/mile in comparable net energy/emissions equivalents. Of course moving the car takes the same energy in either gas or battery mode; Volt’s electric motors don’t care about their source of electricity.

    EPA’s battery MPGe should be reduced to account for the thermal losses in generating and distributing grid electricity, since these were included in the 37mpg gasoline rating. The true energy equivalent battery mode is about (93*.45*.8) 33.5 MPGe. No surprise that this is even lower than 37 MPG using gasoline.

    Charging and discharging the Volt battery is inefficient, causing additional energy losses; the Volt battery is liquid cooled and has its own radiator partition. We can even estimate that EPA’s measured Volt battery energy efficiency is about (33.5/37) 90%. Using the EPA’s assumption about all electric driving, the final overall rating should be about (33.5*0.45+37*0.55) 35 MPGe. The 60MPGe EPA rating just nonsense, and clearly the better environmental choice by a factor of (52/35) almost 1.5x is a less expensive Prius of some sort.

    A final observation. It follows without further analysis that the EV Chevy Bolt makes no sense either economically or environmentally. And by extension, neither do any other EVs. Economically the Bolt is horrible (and higher priced Teslas are worse). Range is only 238 miles. An hour of 240V recharging provides only 25 miles of range; to get 238 miles requires about 8-9 hours of charging. The Bolt essentially seats four, with only 16.9cf of cargo space. Yet the MSRP is ≥$37500. On a correctly compared environmental ‘global warming’ basis, Bolt has to be even worse than the Volt.

    [i] Personal economic data from comparable vehicle functionality. My AWD 2007 Escape Hybrid (small true frame based SUV [not a crossover]) with a class 1 tow hitch is most comparable to the 2007 AWD Escape with a 3L V6 engine and class 2 tow hitch. V6 was 240 HP, my hybrid has a combined 247 HP–153 from the 1.5L I4 Atkinson ICE plus 94 from the electric motor. The 2007 MSRP hybrid premium over the V6 was ~$3400. BUT that year’s federal tax credit for this hybrid was $3500, so we were $100 better off on day one.

    Better, the AWD V6 EPA combined mileage was 23mpg, while my equivalent Hybrid is EPA combined 30mpg. That is 30% better mileage, saving gas for now 11 years and 85k miles. Best, the V6 used premium, my hybrid uses regular. The price difference in our area is over $1/gallon. So not only less gas, also cheaper gas. The fuel savings work out to about $6700 so far. The NiMH traction battery is still going strong and the vehicle has been basically problem free.


    Note the opinions expressed are those of the author Rud Istvan (not mine!!)
    Sorry I couldn't get the EPA sticker to display and of course the data and comparisons are US based market stuff.


    Ken

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    Icon7 Considerations as to buyng second -hand ?

    Jaahn - In browsing the web on the subject of buying electric vehicles, an owner of a second hand 3 year old Nissan Leaf detailed his low priced acquisition of that EV in comparison with the high original price paid, and I suppose for anyone considering buying any electric or hybrid vehicle the original owner has already paid a hefty depreciation, here is some idea of what that might be (USA market examples of course)

    https://www.trustedchoice.com/insura...-depreciation/

    Might not be the same here exactly, but worth considering! Over the years I have bought cars a few years old and that has always paid dividends to me!! Nice to have a brand new toy through


    just something to think about as the new price seems quite steep. or would that be risky with a s/hand EV?


    Ken

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    Interesting article, thanks Ken!
    I'm not quite clear on what generation mode the grid electricity comes from? Maybe i should re-read?
    There would be quite a difference in the final conclusion for EV plug ins if the power comes from renewable or even nuclear?

    Another fuel saver would be, dropping the weight of each car by 500kg using modern materials.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Interesting article, thanks Ken!
    I'm not quite clear on what generation mode the grid electricity comes from? Maybe i should re-read?
    There would be quite a difference in the final conclusion for EV plug ins if the power comes from renewable or even nuclear?

    Another fuel saver would be, dropping the weight of each car by 500kg using modern materials.
    The US based their MPGe figure on their mix of generation, not just coal alone. But figures for all the different generation types have wide ranges that different methods/people estimate to be the "true" value.

    The batteries + electric motor combination for an EV are heavier than an combustion engine + fuel for anything beyond about a 100km range. So any weight savings get immediately eaten up there, and adding more weight for more batteries and range eventually leads to a limit:
    https://www.withouthotair.com/cA/page_261.shtml
    406 HDi

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypermiler View Post
    The US based their MPGe figure on their mix of generation, not just coal alone. But figures for all the different generation types have wide ranges that different methods/people estimate to be the "true" value.

    The batteries + electric motor combination for an EV are heavier than an combustion engine + fuel for anything beyond about a 100km range. So any weight savings get immediately eaten up there, and adding more weight for more batteries and range eventually leads to a limit:
    https://www.withouthotair.com/cA/page_261.shtml
    Assuming all those assumed assumptions are correct and that is the art of setting out to "prove" a desired assumption that seems to be the way it is done these days, I wonder if the claims of easy attainable range or extended range is true in practice. Only the owners of cars will be able to test that out. It does seem from other material written that often claims fall short in practical use, but due to terrain, heat, lack of charging points among a myriad of reasons put forward to excuse shortcomings.

    Ken.

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    Hypwemiler, the assumptions in your link look plausible.
    A mate had a Tesla follow him over the Victorian High country. The Tesla probably stopped in Bairnsdale for a recharge (he didn't see him after Bairnsdale.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    A mate had a Tesla follow him over the Victorian High country. The Tesla probably stopped in Bairnsdale for a recharge (he didn't see him after Bairnsdale.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    I wonder if the claims of easy attainable range or extended range is true in practice. Only the owners of cars will be able to test that out. It does seem from other material written that often claims fall short in practical use, but due to terrain, heat, lack of charging points among a myriad of reasons put forward to excuse shortcomings.
    You can play around with a range estimator to see the impacts of outside temperature and cabin heating/cooling on a Tesla:
    https://toddmotto.com/angular-tesla-range-calculator/
    The battery likes running at a specific temperature and uses the AC to help keep it where it wants to be, so you're using energy just to keep the battery comfortable before the comfort of the passengers. But none of that is unique to electric cars, you just don't think about it so much in a combustion car where the energy tank is so much larger.

    Those are all these smaller contributions to energy consumption, a few kW here and there. The major impact is speed:
    Ch 260 Page 260: Sustainable Energy - without the hot air | David MacKay
    While a combustion car becomes inefficient at lower speeds and is most efficient somewhere around 60-80km/h, electric cars maintain their efficiency as speed reduces (and recover energy in braking). So for long fast trips its hard to beat a combustion vehicle, but around town an electric vehicle makes much more sense. They're complementary technologies for now, with most households having multiple vehicles it makes sense to have both types.
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    Was there any info on what type of batteries the cars used?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Hi
    I thought I would read all that stuff before I answered. Note I am no expert and do not own a registered electric vehicle of any sort. But I have commuted previously for many years on an electric 'scooter' when I was working. I now have an electric mobility 'scooter' that I use locally.

    That article by Rud was interesting and tackles some aspects that are often not mentioned. I will not comment on any particular things but accept the thrust of his discussions. At this stage early adopters will be leading the charge and are the guinea pigs to find out what the real life results are and how they suit different circumstances. I have spent a bit of time with some last weekend and can say I understand some things better now.

    As far as the range goes. Of course we know that all sales persons will put the best spin on the range. Vehicle manufacturers always have sold dreams. That is human nature I guess. (Or if it were Trump selling, just lie about it) But there are some test standards to compare different cars. A bit like the HP figures from the good ol'days. But from my discussions it is soon apparent when you get your car how far you can go in your daily use and it is pretty easy to estimate what you need to do, they are consistent. There are chargers being put up around the place and the location is available on an APP whatever that is . We used a couple of public charger to do some of the cars. The NRMA is committed to putting them in up here in NSW. Strangely the Council would not give us a power point at the display area but we did find an external three phase point that we did use unofficially close by. One security person forbade us using another !! Little dictator !

    One owner of a Tesla at the display is involved in putting in and finding public charging points and has been around Australia three times in his Tesla. Just a matter of normal planning he says. Those cars will find the chargers themselves As they should for the extravagant cost.

    I cannot say too much about the battery temperature management of Teslas but in our generally comfortable climate there is no major need to waste too much power on cooling or heating the batteries.Very cold climates and very hot climates cause problems and reduce the life also. So move to Newcastle and live better anyway
    Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 2nd December 2018 at 10:09 AM.
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    Some of the hoe weather cooling power requirement could be met by covering roof, bonnet and bootlid with PV cells.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Some of the hoe weather cooling power requirement could be met by covering roof, bonnet and bootlid with PV cells.
    yea Jo but it would look sh*t and Teslas look 'cool' and worth the big asking price. They have a full glass roof on the expensive models from the bonnet to the boot. So that does not help to keep the occupants cool either in our climate. Perhaps when they get a workable safety glass with incorporated solar cells in a sexy pattern they will solve both problems
    BS sells you know, not practicality !
    Jaahn

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    Default Charger points around Australia mapped currently !

    Hi Here is a map of charger stations that have been checked/setup/etc around Australia by the Tesla owners club. This includes various types and speeds of charging.
    If you are in the Tesla club I understand the power at the Tesla Supercharge stations is Included in the membership. They are also at places where you can get a meal and/or a coffee while the car recharges.
    A Tesla will recharge to 80% at their stations in 45 minutes, depending on state of charge obviously.
    Jaahn
    PS schlitzaugen, was this directed to me ?schlitzaugen
    "Was there any info on what type of batteries the cars used?"

    If so I would only have to google the actual cars for that. But most of or all, full electric cars use lithium I believe. Some hybrids do use Nickle-? .

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    Hi
    Just sitting down and reading Saturdays papers. Some music on and life is good
    I see the SMH Drive section has charged into electric cars and has reports on several. "Shock and Awe. we drive two of the hottest electric SUVs" and the Outlander PHEV and the Hyundai Ioniq range !! From the expensive to the cheapest, something for everyone Make your choice and spend up for Chrissy presents tomorrow
    Cheers jaahn

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    PSA are also 'electrifying' their cars https://www.caradvice.com.au/709908/...ectrification/
    jaahn likes this.

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    Default VW says the next generation IC engine will be the last one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hi
    Here is something else that also points to the future of suburban cars.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-idUSKBN1O32O6
    Times are a'changing that's for sure Better keep those old cars of ours to show the grandkids how they once worked !!!
    Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 9th December 2018 at 12:06 PM. Reason: add headline !

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    Default Will I buy on the strength of the media backed gtr

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi
    Here is something else that also points to the future of suburban cars.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-idUSKBN1O32O6
    Times are a'changing that's for sure Better keep those old cars of ours to show the grandkids how they once worked !!!
    Jaahn
    That is the high price that VW has to pay and keep paying for cheating. They thought they would get away with the deception and the same can be said of the large media organisations, they all now need to virtue signal, as they feel the power money is behind the move.

    Will the buying public pay the cost of the herd mentality driving those decisions? or have the money to pay? or will there be new wonderful developments for the personal transport of the future.

    I can see that the old saying follow the money also exposes the powerful forces at work encouraging the chosen path, but one can also see that if the huge gamble fails, there will be a conga line of litigants wanting to recoup on loss making decisions they felt compelled to follow Especially if the market and public feel they were conned and then expected to pick up the cost to pay dearly for that adventure.


    Many trillions of whatever currency ends up underpinning the investment shift, and I guess there is also the making of another grand conspiracy theory IF a World wide recession develops and the main auto industrialisation base shifts as companies thrive or fail. Plenty of speculation already around on the world wide web, doom saying articles predicting world economic situations and scenarios with their indicators of economic crisis if anyone cares to look!!

    Interesting to see if China vehicle manufacturing makes the same solid commitment to the timetable put forward by VW and others.

    China if it decides to hedge its bets on a mix of other technology could benefit greatly from alternative thoughts, market propaganda creating marketing trends as they seek to consolidate their rising economic influence.


    Almost like a chess game being played out on the world stage. Mark my words but follow your own instincts and make up your own mind, its your money Ralph.


    Ken

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    Why so negative, Ken? (rhetorical question )
    Hydrocarbon resources are finite? Regardless of the CO2 argument, we have to find alternatives. Sure, as with everything 'new' there is a premium. Given that EVs are fundamentally simpler i'm sure the price will come down - maybe even cheaper than IC cars.
    Profiteering and political advantage garnering is hopefully just a stupid short term side effect?
    Kenfuego and jaahn like this.
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    Icon14 Yes some will profit and some lose, the trick is to be a virtuous survivor!

    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Why so negative, Ken? (rhetorical question )
    Hydrocarbon resources are finite? Regardless of the CO2 argument, we have to find alternatives. Sure, as with everything 'new' there is a premium. Given that EVs are fundamentally simpler i'm sure the price will come down - maybe even cheaper than IC cars.
    Profiteering and political advantage garnering is hopefully just a stupid short term side effect?
    Jobo, if I took a short sighted view and looking after only my own interests I can afford to buy an electric vehicle and virtue signal that I am saving the world (whales, bears, whatever) and take advantage of largesse offered by governments to comfortably take short term advantage of all sorts of deals given to soften the economic impact of an abrupt change in world economic endeavour and also have the delicious justification of seeing hydrocarbon supply manipulators reduced to beggars and whiners as their captive market is reduced to almost nothing. Then there is the empty triumph of saying to those that wish this on themselves. hey I told you so.


    But then I can see the downside for others, and the impact will always be on those individuals and countries that don't have the wealth or advantages to ride out the economic upheaval and in short order the Paris riots and unrest initially against such virtue signalling and imposition of SIN taxing hits home, then spreading as it can rapidly to other issues is a dream for anarchists and chaos profiteers and the wealthy and prepared (even if righteous and full of sympathy and concern) can also be swept up in the backlash.


    I could be wrong of course and I hope I am.


    Perhaps out of chaos comes tranquility as leaders and inventors rise to the challenges, if the worst manifests itself.. and that is a positive thought

    Ken

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    What would be a better way to introduce the change?

    I think Australia isn't doing too badly by keeping subsidies to a minimum compared to some other countries. Of course, there is future politics/virtue signalling with some of the subsidy proposals - that's wrong. The main beneficiaries will be the opportunists in the industry if it's mishandled.
    "We prefer to believe what we prefer to be true"
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