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  1. #1
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    Icon13 Fuel prices consistently High, but..

    I note that the run of high fuel prices continues in Melbourne and probably the rest of Australia and perhaps worse to come if sanctions on Iran fuel bite and Saudi interests holding back production, was watching a program on TV that was lamenting the lack of reserve capacity and storage/let alone on shore crude production and refining capacity leave Australia isolated with less than 20 days supply if the proverbial hits the fan.

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    So in the near term doesn't look good for motorists and already the high diesel prices are being passed on in higher retail pricing and difficulties with the fresh vegetable supply chain. So we are starting a bad period on top of already high pricing, Some can afford that of course, others can't make ends meet.


    I still look for the lowest priced reliable quality fuel. I noticed that METRO in Melbourne have diesel at 155.7 at some outlets and United almost the same. Shell today at Bundoora had Diesel at 169 cents plus a litre (Saturday 3rd November) and BP Diesel 162 cents plus a litre.


    I was able to get Diesel at 152.7 cents a litre at Costco fuel at Epping and noted that they had 91 at 142.7 cents a litre and 98 RON at 158.7 cents a litre ( and on the plus side I only bought a 3llb can of their ground Colombian coffee blend @ $14.99 and a slice of pizza and their $2 deal hot dog and drink all up $6.47, so a cheap filling meal and drinks. Lots of families filling up at the bowsers and the eatery at those prices. )


    Hope you get better prices in your locations.


    Regards Ken

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    Hi Ken
    Well the prices are not down in Newcastle, that's for sure. I went to the local cheap SS for some papers today and looked at the gauge and said I may as well buy fuel too.
    I log the fuel and cost, ??? just a waste of time but I noted that I bought less fuel than last time 3 weeks ago and paid more for it
    Seems to happen most times lately.
    Jaahn

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    At Ilkurlka, the only fuel supply on the 1370km Anne Beadell Highway, the 91 octane OPAL petrol cost $3.50 a litre. Since then, I have found ALL service stations in Sydney sell cheap petrol.

    John

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    Icon14 Thanks for the reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi Ken
    Well the prices are not down in Newcastle, that's for sure. I went to the local cheap SS for some papers today and looked at the gauge and said I may as well buy fuel too.
    I log the fuel and cost, ??? just a waste of time but I noted that I bought less fuel than last time 3 weeks ago and paid more for it
    Seems to happen most times lately.
    Jaahn
    Hi Jaahn

    I increasingly feel the same, just determined to try and find the best fuel price, but occasionally find I am buying dear fuel, so be it. Just as others have to pay out. What is depressing though is that politicians from the major parties could have worked together in the National Interest of all in building up both strategic reserves and ensuring adequate domestic provision was made before allowing the export of natural resources overseas for short term gain.

    Protecting rather than allow the mothballing of local refining while a virtually useless hollow competition commission seems to work hand in glove with profiteers in the energy sector. Only needs a few other mess-ups by others that should know better and we are in for a horrific time.

    Sure the better off in the community, and wise investors and those that have salary packages that include company cars fuelled as part of the pay package, will be able to drive when many in the community cannot afford to do so. We are so dependent on the overseas controlled market pricing now that it is hard to see any relief for those that will fall by the wayside.

    I can't complain as a self funded and very conservative small player in financial matters we have the option of paying whatever we have to. IF, we consider it necessary to drive and have the option of making the best of whatever happens, come what may.

    I have always kept a record of both fuel and energy prices, but it is depressing to see the squandered opportunities that we had if only governments had been alert to forward planning in times when I regard as economically good for families in Australia. Like JBN says I think over the years we have seen some horrific prices that don't really reflect the actual cost of fuel delivery to motorists in remote locations - world parity pricing without development of onshore fuel supply and capacity was a luxury we had years back and I cannot see any return to that prosperity and freedom.


    But on a cheerful note I will still do my best to reward the cheapest retail supply and imagine that competition is still uppermost in the minds of all politicians of all persuasions.


    Did think years back that motorists had a powerful voice if they used market power to promote competition but that is like trying to herd cats.. The spin and money backing seems to rest with those pushing fuel prices higher and making up plausible excuses.

    Enjoy your motoring.


    Ken
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    IWS
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    A "fuel prices" thread and only 4 comments. Now, if Alexander had still been here ... :-)
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    Default Hmm

    Hi
    A lot could be said but I will resist. On principle I look up the gov fuel price comparison site occasionally to establish the cheap prices around close by. Always the independents. Never the big names or even the discount dockets. My principle is if I do not support them how will they put pressure on the warped current system. I make a small saving but I could live with the higher prices, just drive less if necessary.

    I refuse on priniple to go to any brand that has been taken to court for underpaying their workers. Hell the workers are the lower rung of our current working class so that is just despicable. But the list grows and I believe there are lots more to come.

    As for flogging our resources AND jobs overseas There are not enough words to express that sentiment. Why do we vote for the people who have been/are responsible for this. GREED GREED GREED. Nothing more. Just dog whistle the punters and they will come ! Just look O/S currently
    Jaahn
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    Icon10 We certainly would have had much industry spin and diversion Ian!

    Quote Originally Posted by IWS View Post
    A "fuel prices" thread and only 4 comments. Now, if Alexander had still been here ... :-)
    Yes we would get loads of diversion, look over there, ARAMCO, arbitrage and cartel defence, most of it spin and profit to overseas companies where tax isn't paid or earnt and I'd have to think deliberate misinformation as to the make up of stored gases, and who sets prices.

    But the bottom line would still be motorists sold a line by both governments and the oil industry to accept the industry created cycle of price hikes as some sort of motorist created, competition at the pump. And yes independents have made a difference, but still join the artificial price cycle nonsense when really when prices are hiked 25 cents a litre on particular grades of fuel, that is when they should be offering the lowest price to sell in competition to the majors. didn't really happen in the past.

    I do concede that some independents have kept prices low and consistent within the so called discount cycles and that does exert a downward pressure on retail pricing. I could probably say more about the present company structures and profit lines, but then it is hard to stay away from the politics and for mine not one party can or will lower fuel prices, that geni left the bottle in Bob Hawkes day and when John Howard dropped the excise fuel tax but failed to prevent it being absorbed by industry profit taking, that took the effect/benefit away from the long suffering motorist.


    I see there was an article in todays Herald Sun by Karen Collier titled "Fuel Hike hits families" there are some interesting facts and figures quoted on the knock on inflation costs and direct effects of higher fuel prices i.e the 7.2 hike in domestic holiday travel and accommodation costs, then budgets had to cope with steeper fruit and vegetable prices, but we did get cheaper breakfast cereals and downward pricing on mainly imported goods (shoes, small electric appliances, games and toys) so not all doom and gloom though we don't do much in creating jobs by manufacturing on shore these days.


    I agree with Jaahn in supporting local employers and outlets where possible and when I pull up at a Metro, United, Apco fuel station in the country, there are lines of motorists seeking lower prices and supporting those local employees and I guess the franchisees that operate them.

    Costco in the Metro area is a new player but from what I observe has captured a large following of customers at both the warehouse and pumps. The warehouse operation seems to be full of young families who make full use of both opportunities to shop and buy low cost eat there or take-away food at the same time.


    I'll leave it to others to say if that is a good or bad economic thing for Australia and Australians overall. I do know that many Tasmanian families hope for some competition (Aldi and Costco) like the mainland has, though local grocery chains and fuel outlets are said to be blocking the move as too much competition! Remains to be seen who wins on that.

    Ken

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    Look at prices in the UK and Europe and do the sums to me we are not paying too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ianrobbo View Post
    Look at prices in the UK and Europe and do the sums to me we are not paying too much.
    Yes after paying £25 ($60AD) to fill up a Vauxhall Corsa (Holden Barina) back in 1998, I said I would never complain about fuel prices in Australia again
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    Much to my shock, petrol in Bendigo is much cheaper than Melbourne. I have been overseas for 4 months, but got back a month ago, and just got a car. Petrol in Bendigo was the same price as Melbourne, but about a week ago dropped to around $1.459 (give or take a couple of cents). The supermarket chains put theirs up to $1.729 before discounts late last week, but the independents and cheaper places are still down.

    Back about 10-15 years ago, Bendigo prices stayed static. And surprisingly towards the lower end of the Melbourne cycle. A couple of years ago LPG went up from 49.9c tp 69.9c, but it took about 6 months after Melbourne went up for Bendigo to rise.
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    Icon7 The here and now comparison for Aussie motorists seeking best price on fuel.

    Quote Originally Posted by ianrobbo View Post
    Look at prices in the UK and Europe and do the sums to me we are not paying too much.
    Of course we live in Australia not UK and Europe and I am thankful for that, nice to visit and I see that the UK is moving back to allowing us colonials rightful recognition when we visit. That is good.

    Perhaps the Shell owners also consider the Australian fuel pricing "too cheap" and that is the reason that the Bundoora Shell board price per litre was 169 cents per litre while Costco had 142 cents per litre for the same fuel grade on the same day.! just 27 cents more per litre or 25 cents dearer than the Metro price for the same fuel. 25 to 27 cents difference... Fortunately our motorists have a choice when buying.


    Col what is your current normal price for the different fuel grades in Tasmania? 91, 98, and Diesel?


    PS the current thread is just a comparison of pricings in our market not the UK or USA or Canada or the European union, but they will face similar International supply pressures and currency exchange rates in their consumer markets. Their choice to live there of course under different governance.

    Ken

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post

    Col what is your current normal price for the different fuel grades in Tasmania? 91, 98, and Diesel?

    Ken
    I'll have a look and write them down when I'm at the servo next. As a rough guide it cost me about a $100 to fill the Laguna from empty with 95.
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    Regards Col

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    Just a quick reminder that the Sydney fuel price cycle is on a low at the moment and anyone in Sydney would do well to fill up in the next day or two.

    Motormouth reports clearly show the cycle to make it easy to fill up cheaply.

    https://motormouth.com.au/

    Fuel prices consistently High, but..-fuel-price-cycle-nov4_2018.jpg

    Cheers

    Justin
    Last edited by N5GTi6; 4th November 2018 at 10:45 PM.
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    Last week I went into my local Caltex garage where I always get my fuel. Filled up and paid. Then I asked if they sold cigarettes as I had been asked to buy a packet of smokes for my 80 year old brother-in-law who was in hospital (having a pacemaker fitted). I also bought a disposable lighter and the whole lot came to about $34. I realised then that quitting smoking about 30 years ago had saved me a motza. I don't recall what the fuel price was as I felt relatively rich looking back on the money saved by not smoking, the 2CV that cost me GBP 1,500 (~ $3000) in 1993 which is still my daily driver and the wife's Xantia ($2000 in 2009).

    When I buy fuel, all I remember is the pump number and I just tap the credit card. I don't want to spoil my day by reflecting on the cost nor the fuel cycle. The Caltex is the closest garage AND has an air hose to pump up the tyres that always works. In short, a service station that has all the services that I require.

    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    Just a quick reminder that the Sydney fuel price cycle is on a low at the moment and anyone in Sydney would do well to fill up in the next day or two.

    Motormouth reports clearly show the cycle to make it easy to fill up cheaply.

    https://motormouth.com.au/

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fuel price cycle Nov4_2018.jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	48.9 KB 
ID:	110553

    Cheers

    Justin
    Checked your motormouth, but half the stations shown on the local map don't have prices available especially the cheaper ones, but is handy to show the high prices in each fuel as ones to avoid. Mind you I buy along defined routes that I travel often, so easy for me to personally check.


    Might be handy for spot checks on country trips. where one needs to buy fuel while travelling.


    Thanks for posting the link, I also tend to ignore industry cycles as they just serve the industry and rely on creating higher average over time prices for those that have to buy or just elect to pay the piper on the day.

    Ken

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    Hi
    I do not think that Newcastle has a definite price cycle. I think when some independents came into the market some years ago and did not join the cartel they broke that rorte here. Generally the big name dealers are always dearer than Sydney but the indendents are as cheap perhaps.

    I was fuelling up at my regular place when the tanker came in. I had a chat to him and asked where the fuel came from. The Caltex depot for all of it. Even he said why would people pay +10 +20c more for it at Caltex. Just stupid was my reply.
    Although I agree that their air often does not get fixed for ages !!
    Jaahn

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    Icon5 Are Major franchisees sourcing from other outlet sources or?

    One thing I noted on my travels to Brisbane recently was the use of independent tankers rather than Shell and BP branded ones delivering fuel to BP and Shell outlets? and in Victoria the same with other brand name majors. Has anyone noted the same increasing "Independent"? tanker use? (without naming the name those tanker trucks actually display)

    Ken

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    Always wondered why diesel is more expensive when it is produced early in the process of refining;should be cheaper?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    One thing I noted on my travels to Brisbane recently was the use of independent tankers rather than Shell and BP branded ones delivering fuel to BP and Shell outlets? and in Victoria the same with other brand name majors. Has anyone noted the same increasing "Independent"? tanker use? (without naming the name those tanker trucks actually display)

    Ken
    First of all, a rather stupid question: why is there a 'fuel cycle' at all? What is that based on?

    Secondly, regarding the name on Tankers supplying the fuel: I used to drive fuel tankers and the name on the truck meant nothing as the fuel came out of the same great tank no matter whether it was PB, or Caltex or Shell or whatever. I used to have to hang the appropriate 'logo' on my tuck depending on who I was delivering to on the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi
    I make a small saving but I could live with the higher prices, just drive less if necessary.
    Don't do that! If Everybody does that than they have to hike the price even higher to maintain profit and tax income
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    Quote Originally Posted by alhantos View Post
    Always wondered why diesel is more expensive when it is produced early in the process of refining;should be cheaper?
    I think it is to fleece the wealthy who drive those expensive German turbo diesels.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breitie View Post
    First of all, a rather stupid question: why is there a 'fuel cycle' at all? What is that based on?
    Secondly, regarding the name on Tankers supplying the fuel: I used to drive fuel tankers and the name on the truck meant nothing as the fuel came out of the same great tank no matter whether it was PB, or Caltex or Shell or whatever. I used to have to hang the appropriate 'logo' on my tuck depending on who I was delivering to on the day.
    Hi Breitie
    The answer to your 'stupid question' is simple ! It was a diversion that started years ago and the fuel companies thought that keeping the punters confused would be good for profits. And then if they complained the punters could be blamed for not chasing the cheap days. Hell even the pollies have used that argument to justify their lack of action. "market forces" will fix all problems

    It's a sad indictment of how gullible we all are IMHO.
    Jaahn

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    Icon14 Maybe some relief in the short term on fuel prices

    Might be some relief in sight, The overseas price of fuel stock is decreasing (already dropped!!) and with President Trump declaring he is scaling down tension to try and keep international prices low, with the softening of the US sanctions on the sale of Iran oil to certain countries, but that also might cynically have some connection with the US mid term elections on Tuesday..

    On page 17 of the Herald Sun Karen Collier reports:

    Headlined PETROL PRICE RELIEF Motorists are set to get some much needed relief at the petrol bowser. Savings tipped over the next two to three weeks could make it about $10 cheaper to fill a 70 litre tank, an economist says.

    CommSec’s Craig James said the Singapore gasoline price – to which Australian prices were linked – had fallen by 17c a litre over the past month, and the wholesale unleaded petrol price was so far down by 12c.
    In the past week the national average unleaded fuel price had dropped 4.4 cents a litre to 156.1c according to the Australian Institute of Petroleum.

    “The pump price has only just started its decline and further big price declines can be expected in the coming fortnight” Mr James said.

    Mr James said there was always a lag in lower international prices reflected in retail prices – new supplies had to be transported, and service stations had to sell out of their more expensive fuel before replenishing. He said once the full effect of lower prices kicked in, Melbourne prices may drop to about $1.40 a litre.
    Remains to be seen if prices will come down as fast as the 25 to 30 cent rises were tacked on.!!


    If anyone sees a huge trend setting price cut in the next fortnight, please report it here so that we can reward the competition leader with extra sales.. but if previous behavior prevails that may just be a step too far for the retail fuel industry

    If it happens though, we (the humble motorist) should applaud the leaders.


    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I think it is to fleece the wealthy who drive those expensive German turbo diesels.

    John
    But,but,but i have 2 citroen turbo diesels,please explain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alhantos View Post
    Always wondered why diesel is more expensive when it is produced early in the process of refining;should be cheaper?
    As I understand it, the price of diesel is a function of the supply of diesel and the demand for diesel. The relative retail prices of fuels do not reflect the relative cost of refining. I don't know any numbers but I would think the difference per litre in the refining cost of diesel vs some other variant, would be tiny in comparison to the overall price of fuel.

    My recollection is that diesel was indeed cheaper than petrol some years in the past, and became more expensive in the years when China started ramping up demand for every sort of industrial input on the planet. I did see this again in recent years - can't recall when - but there was a possibly short time where diesel was cheaper than petrol. I don't take much notice of fuel prices, but isn't diesel cheaper than the 'premium' petrol fuels anyway?

    John

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