Clarifaction on new GST laws on "low value" goods
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Thread: Clarifaction on new GST laws on "low value" goods

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Capago's Avatar
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    Default Clarifaction on new GST laws on "low value" goods

    Hi all,

    Wasnt sure if it was worth starting a discussion about it or perhaps ive misunderstood it.

    Most of us will be in the same boat, all of the parts we order in will be subject to GST (under $1000) as of the new fiscal year.

    Am i correct in saying that all of the parts that we order in, the sites we use will use will need to register for gst (which sounds preposterous).

    What is the norm when ordering over $1000? allegedly there is no change but ive never noticed anything on a large order.

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    It is an unclear shambles. See, eg, https://butlers.net.au/tax-update-gs...value-imports/

    Avoid "electronic distribution platforms", eg eBay.

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    1000+ Posts Capago's Avatar
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    Im worried that they will just hold goods at the boarder until the importer (or as i understand the context, the sender) pays appropriate duty. Only safeguard to this is register personally for GST? I dont fully understand the system.
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    The seller is to register if their Australian sales are over $75,000.

    I am extremely angry with Gerry Harvey and his ilk because (as I've written on here before) he knew exactly what he was doing. I'm sure no one really cares if they have to pay GST; that isn't what private importing was all about; but he pretended that was his issue. It was about having huge choice and access to things you couldn't otherwise get; the lower cost is of course a bonus. Harvey knew the laws would discourage many sellers from dealing with Australia and as a result I will not shop at his stores on principle. The trouble is that no-one knew what the impact would be and by the time they do, it'll be well and truly established.

    If we just had to pay 10% at the border it would have been fine, but of course that was impossibly impractical. The goods won't be held as the GST is to be paid by the seller if they are willing to deal with us any more.

    For many larger sellers the administration will be too much and I believe we will start to see notices that sellers will not deal with Australia.

    You can't register for GST unless you're carrying on an 'enterprise', essentially a business.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capago View Post
    Im worried that they will just hold goods at the boarder until the importer (or as i understand the context, the sender) pays appropriate duty. Only safeguard to this is register personally for GST? I dont fully understand the system.
    We have discussed this on the forum a while back, I haven't found the thread as yet but will look again tomorrow.

    In short you don't need to do anything, OS suppliers that sell in excess of AUD$75,000 per annum into Australia will be required to register, charge and submit the GST component to the ATO. If you are a reseller you would quote your ABN for exemption and add GST as you do here anyway - the ultimate consumer pays the GST and there should be no double dipping by the ATO.

    Policing will be a real challenge for the ATO especially when dealing with online sales via Ebay, Amazon etc. I can see it falling in a heap. . .

    Edit: Snap, you beat me to it Stuey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capago View Post
    Hi all,

    What is the norm when ordering over $1000? allegedly there is no change but ive never noticed anything on a large order.

    Cam
    Trust me, the current system where border farce hold your goods until you complete a complex process and pay $90 for the pleasure of submitting the document then pay the GST based on the exchange rate on the day of purchase is a pain in the arse.

    Interestingly I learned a fast and expensive lesson last year when I ordered a software licence and some interface cards for a theatre organ in Sydney. The actual transaction was about $6k but the value of goods shipped was listed at about $1,800 and that was on the documentation. However.... Obviously BF/ATO etc know all that goes on, and despite the lodging of documentation indicating the goods being held were worth $1,800, we were whacked with the full GST charge. Ouch!

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    Amazon, eBay and the like have an Australian presence, and may collect the tax. I can't see dealers in France, Lithuania or Ireland doing this, and that's where it gets interesting.

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    FYI here's the law companion ruling from the ATO. There is one for distribution platforms like eBay and Amazon as well.

    http://ato.gov.au/law/view/document?DocID=COG/LCR20181/NAT/ATO/00001&PiT=99991231235958


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    Did someone say clarification???? What planet do these parasites live on?

    Of course this is really going to be followed by a shop called directly or emailed isn't it?

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    I posted that for the more technically minded. Obviously it has to be written to cover all eventualities and loopholes, being designed to explain the law.

    Here's the dumbed down version; see links as well.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/business/larg...mported-goods/

    Don't shoot the messenger.


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    I've noticed a number of the services I use asking for ABN so they can correctly apply GST to the business. For example Amazon AWS servers, google API's and other large cloud suppliers.

    I still haven't had any of my race car parts suppliers asking for it. They do occasionally get stopped at the border though - annoying as it makes paying for expedited shipping kind of useless.
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    Main thing when ordering overseas is to get an Ex VAT or GST price
    England and France are running around 18-20 %

    Just ask and check

    More savings than you would believe. And this way it lowers the GST payable in Australia


    https://webforms.ey.com/gl/en/servic...-guide---rates

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    Some UK/EU sellers won't do it, unfortunately. I've asked and been refused.


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    But wait there's more...the productivity commission's report on the various collection models.

    http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/compl...s-overview.pdf


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    Further to the above....the freight cost is also included in the new "under $1000" rule just as it is now with the "over $1000 rule"
    That nearly makes buying...say suspension parts....quite expensive.
    There should be a class action of car nuts against good ol Gerry Harvey. He is sitting pretty as the poor bugger just sold his 7 Gold Coast units. Yes....7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    He is sitting pretty as the poor bugger just sold his 7 Gold Coast units. Yes....7
    See, the poor bugger is doing it tough. He's had to sell off some of his properties to get cash.
    He's probably down to his last couple of billion.
    He might have to set up a facebook 'fund me' page to get enough dosh to keep his racehorses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    But wait there's more...the productivity commission's report on the various collection models.

    http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/compl...s-overview.pdf
    Thanks for posting that Stuey, sets the probable changing scenario that might evolve as this is set in place.

    In my view this is a levelling of the playing field especially with those that run email only businesses and either take higher profit for themselves, or can be more competitive in the market place by offering lower retail prices to customers i.e. below that of other small businesses that rent bricks and mortar premises as retail outlets with consequent higher cost base (rent, rates, power cost etc. that need to be recovered in the pricing of goods sold over the counter)

    Both types of businesses will pay transport and delivery costs and contribute to the tax base of the Australian economy. In theory the wider collection and more certainty of predictable revenue, should help in keeping GST hopefully at 10% rather than increasing the percentage (and that has received some attention lately)

    I understand that no Australian really likes to pay taxes unlike in some other countries where many want to pay moderate taxes to enable democratic government to do all the good things that one can do to help particularly disadvantaged, disabled, and maintain at least a safety net of a Welfare system (Prime object of a good equitable tax system). The trick of course is to get it just right so the full tax burden doesn't fall only on one section of the community i.e. P.A.Y.E. taxpayers , a burden that then trickles up as ever higher charges for goods and services as that cost is factored in.

    Achieving that "just right and equitable" imposed wide spread tax base, is the difficulty that good governments struggle with as all sorts of demands are made by its citizens the media and pressure groups.

    Just my in examining both upsides and obvious downsides for us long suffering serfs! hat tip to Kim Luck.

    Ken
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    Achieving that "just right and equitable" imposed wide spread tax base, is the difficulty that good governments struggle with as all sorts of demands are made by its citizens the media and pressure groups.
    A "pie in the sky" wish.

    Because "just right and equitable" depends upon a very personal view and/or circumstances.

    And no two people will agree what is ""just right and equitable" and from experience , most tend to more concerned to have their own circumstances supported and Tax minimized.

    If our Politicians won't make sacrifices "for the greater good" what business do we have expecting average plebs to do so ?
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    I agree with Rob entirely.
    Ken,
    Please tell me how i can get a set of ignition leads from a bricks and mortar shop in the UK delivered to me for $112 and the OZ bricks and mortar shop wants me to pay $300.?
    Remember when GST first came in they said there would not be any other taxes.... haven't the States had a ball with that one....there are so many hidden taxes...... just recently the QLD Govt placed another tax on luxury cars ON TOP of the existing Federal Govt luxury car tax.
    New York has 24 million people...the same as all Australia...yet we have Federal....a State...and a local Govt to run the show....all on huge wages. Look at Bob Hawke....the "Peoples Prime Minister" ha ! living in a $8 million mansion Sydney Harbourside.
    Who are the fools Ken ?
    Rant complete :}
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  21. #21
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    You didn't give the NY comparison; for example, in NYC there are two sales taxes, an NYC sales tax and an NY state sales tax. For starters.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    I agree with Rob entirely.
    Ken,
    Please tell me how i can get a set of ignition leads from a bricks and mortar shop in the UK delivered to me for $112 and the OZ bricks and mortar shop wants me to pay $300.?
    Remember when GST first came in they said there would not be any other taxes.... haven't the States had a ball with that one....there are so many hidden taxes...... just recently the QLD Govt placed another tax on luxury cars ON TOP of the existing Federal Govt luxury car tax.
    New York has 24 million people...the same as all Australia...yet we have Federal....a State...and a local Govt to run the show....all on huge wages. Look at Bob Hawke....the "Peoples Prime Minister" ha ! living in a $8 million mansion Sydney Harbourside.
    Who are the fools Ken ?
    Rant complete :}
    True that was your personal rant and I am happy to rant too, but that was not what my post was about. Robmac missed the point with his off point picky reply also. I think we all know full well that what an equitable tax system is meant to do, but often that is not the way it works.

    Our job is to remind them when it strays away from "right and equitable" but that doesn't mean allowing just one section of the community (i.e. private self interest individuals, free reign to avoid paying ten percent GST!) and if that is all that is imposed and the system works, 10% won't break any individual, even if you don't like paying tax and indirectly supporting welfare in your home country. On my reading of the paper I commented on, this stated purpose should able to accommodate your private needs!!

    Of course with all new introduced measures, some will make knee jerk reactions and you will get consequences, that should be able to be addressed as they arise "IF" those administering do their job and if they don't, then those interested (car clubs? owners? ) need to apply pressure to ensure that what you want is incorporated to facilitate your needs. Overseas supplier knee jerk reactions might need more encouragement, to continue to supply that limited market, the provisions are there.

    There is a growing internet trade with commercial businesses bringing in goods and reselling, and that is the area I was addressing in my levelling of the playing field comment.

    I have been happy to get parts overseas too, most without any thing added and my son did quite well on his Porsche stuff from the USA. far cheaper than from Porsche in Melbourne.

    I would be quite happy to pay GST and foster increased internet use as that will apply competition to the propriety trade to lower the rip-off prices that you and many others complain about. To have an orderly recognised right to buy in parts would formalise that aspect of real competition.

    Bureaucratic processes NEED to work properly of course for us rather than against us in an ideal consumer world.

    Too many just want to point the finger and exploit division. Rich and Poor division is pretty stupid divisive stuff, when we should look at all sides and exploit available benefits for the good of all, rather than them and us!

    Regards

    Ken.
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  23. #23
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    I expect with Westfield now in French hands, I should focus on shopping in non Westfield centres. Two reasons - one to keep the money out of foreign hands and the other to show my disdain for the French commitment to their product, seared into my soul as the owner of French cars.

    John

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