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  1. #51
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    have you looked at what emerges from a petrol engine tailpipe? Diesels aren't as exclusively bad as you seem to think.
    Haakon believes that bicycles are man's best friend. He opposes any form of transport that involves pollution of any kind. Fortunately his bicycles are made of a magic material which doesn't involve any pollution at all in the manufacture of over 130 million or more a year.

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    have you looked at what emerges from a petrol engine tailpipe? Diesels aren't as exclusively bad as you seem to think.
    Yes. Whats your point?
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    It’s my understanding that DPFs have solved the particulates issue and NOx and CO2 (less than petrol) are the important factors now.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    It’s my understanding that DPFs have solved the particulates issue and NOx and CO2 (less than petrol) are the important factors now.


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    No, they don't get the small stuff, PM5 etc. They get (most) of the bigger visible stuff, but not the really harmful ones. And the reliability is low (as well as assorted the cutns who like to remove them...).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    No, they don't get the small stuff, PM5 etc. They get (most) of the bigger visible stuff, but not the really harmful ones. And the reliability is low (as well as assorted the cutns who like to remove them...).
    The really harmful stuff is NOx
    Bosch has long term plans for the continuation of diesel engine cars, including the urban environment.
    https://www.goauto.com.au/news/bosch...-30/72123.html



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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    No, they don't get the small stuff, PM5 etc. They get (most) of the bigger visible stuff, but not the really harmful ones. And the reliability is low (as well as assorted the cutns who like to remove them...).
    The question is, do they get PM10? There seems to be no intermediate regulation to meet between PM10 and PM2.5. Am I correct?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    The really harmful stuff is NOx
    Bosch has long term plans for the continuation of diesel engine cars, including the urban environment.
    https://www.goauto.com.au/news/bosch...-30/72123.html



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    Yeah, still no real details. Or how long this is meant to make it viable. Euro 7? Euro 8? Like I've said, in the long term game of properly improved emissions, this is a short term iterative patch up job.

    Nox ****s with respiratory systems, particulates give you cancer. Its all a bit shit...
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    https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/dpm_size.php

    DPF gets F all of it really...

    Enough already. Burning hydrocarbons is polluting - period. Doesn't matter what you do, physics cant be beaten and you'll have waste products to deal with that will be airborne in residential areas and will be toxic. The end.
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    Oddly America has just discovered diesel power for its large SUVs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/dpm_size.php

    DPF gets F all of it really...

    Enough already. Burning hydrocarbons is polluting - period. Doesn't matter what you do, physics cant be beaten and you'll have waste products to deal with that will be airborne in residential areas and will be toxic. The end.
    Not the end, Haakon, just the beginning! Nanoparticles are also provided free to the public by tyre, brake and road wear. (Thorpe & Harrison, 2008) Damn those EV's!

    And to make it worse: "Exposure to airborne nanoparticles is an unavoidable consequence of the technological advances of combustion engines and engineering and the natural occurrence of dusts, forest fires, and volcanic activity."

    Seems like we're all doomed, matey!
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    Default Bosch gives diesel a new life

    Particulates from gasoline engines is significant enough to make them (GPFs) the next feature.......except you won’t hear it advertised as such.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    Particulates from gasoline engines is significant enough to make them (GPFs) the next feature.......except you won’t hear it advertised as such.


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    Only direct injected ones. High compression and high combustion temperatures lead to excessive particulates.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    Only direct injected ones. High compression and high combustion temperatures lead to excessive particulates.


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    Aren’t they all DI?
    Maybe the Mazda hybrid one will be a solution.


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    Default Common sense !

    Hi
    The discussion seems to have taken a new twist People are not attacking each other and talking sense ?? hopeful !!

    As we all seem to use new technology sooner or later it seems we should take a common sense approach and look at the down sides and try and minimise them. Then look into the future for new useful advances. It is the last one which seems to be the problem and especially for our useless pollies. They are so beholden to industry and commerce they support the status quo no matter what. In our changing world it is just living in the past.

    I am an old fella that grew up loving cars and bikes and playing with them. But I see the down side of them even when I was young, sort off In my last 10 years of work I "down sized" from a motorbike to an electric scooter to work, cheap, easy to park, no parking fees, no fuel. What is not to like about that for a short commute. An electric car might be needed for a longer one. Do me now for the urban stuff if they were cheap. But I do use a mobility buggy for short trips. Same reasons as before !!

    Just an observation from a motorbike rider on the progress of vehicle pollution. If you get behind an older car now, the exhaust fumes almost kills me on the spot. It is so obvious how far we have come just by the obvious fumes you can see and smell, not counting the invisible ones. Following the real old cars I love must be avoided completely for me

    Jaahn
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    .......and Trump wants to sue California for demanding further reductions.


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    The solution...

    We'll have one of these in our future...


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    And look, for the speed freaks amongst us...

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    I want a Recaro seat on mine
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvr View Post
    And look, for the speed freaks amongst us...

    He will fail the emissions test on that one


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    Default Bosch gives diesel a new life

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    Aren’t they all DI?
    Maybe the Mazda hybrid one will be a solution.


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    No, but it’s heading that way.

    Do you mean Skyactive X? Even Mazda acknowledge it’s an interim measure.

    It’s an interesting play though - they’re rolling the dice a bit hoping for some short term gains by being “unique” in an industry almost exclusively adopting electrification in one way or another. I reckon there is a market for them for sure and they may well be the last ICE products standing (in the world of passenger cars).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    No, but it’s heading that way.

    Do you mean Skyactive X? Even Mazda acknowledge it’s an interim measure.

    It’s an interesting play though - they’re rolling the dice a bit hoping for some short term gains by being “unique” in an industry almost exclusively adopting electrification in one way or another. I reckon there is a market for them for sure and they may well be the last ICE products standing (in the world of passenger cars).


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    Which current engines are not DI?.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    Which current engines are not DI?.


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    My Giulietta for one. My 0.9 Tce Clio was also port injected.
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    Hi,
    I was having a read about this PM2.5 matter. It is different in different countries, but motor vehicles, which I guess includes trucks, account for somewhere between 10% and 30% of these particles. I would think trucks are most of that, so it seems the idea that diesel cars make much difference is a gross exaggeration, putting it nicely.

    Thanks
    Andy
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    Pm2.5 where? In the general world, in total, or just that concentrated in areas you spend a lot of time (ie roads and surrounds). It’s also about dosage, not just what it out there in general.

    Epidemiological work has been done for years correlating cancer rates and arterial roads.


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