Mandated Australian recall? re TAKATA dangerous air bags
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Thread: Mandated Australian recall? re TAKATA dangerous air bags

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    Icon14 Mandated Australian recall? re TAKATA dangerous air bags

    Apparently today there will be an announcement of a mandated Government recall for manufacturers to fix the TAKATA issue where the ammonium nitrate used in the air bag explosive propellant can deteriorate with age and moisture content and self activate. There has already been one death in Australia due to the shrapnel ejected into the face of those in the car. Horrific and clear the voluntary recall is not working fast enough, but even the government apparently gives to 2020 for all to be replaced - Brand names are being released, but so far I do not see any Renaults mentioned among the Euro import details.

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    I would as an owner be very worried about any delay in fixing this problem.

    More to come in the Government release today.

    Ken

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    This is an absolutely brilliant replacement strategy.

    Since safely functioning airbags are in short supply.
    Faulty airbags are likely to be used as replacement.
    Necessitating a high proportion of the replacement airbags will need to replaced in a SECOND RECALL.

    It's about time another manufacturer is enticed to make a replacement product. Or an "in place upgrade" is developed. Which could be as simple as safety shroud to enclose the faulty inflator assembly.

    Since they are replacing faulty units with faulty units, I'd think the correct deployment is likely to happen.

    Obviously the "highly at risk subset" should be replaced as a priority.
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    I thought the recall was already mandatory, and was being progressed by manufacturers (in Australia) as required by law.

    In my case, my 2004 WRX was subject to the recall, was acted upon, and had a "like" replacement fitted in 2015 (ie, a similar one to original). I also have a letter from Subaru where they intend to replace that one with a modified airbag within 5-6 years, as they become available.

    I accept that, because it is known that these failures only occur in certain conditions, and are at least 9-10 years old (I stand to be corrected on the actual time). The choice is to park the car or deactivate the airbag system. Replacement with a new airbag, even of the type which may fail in 10 years, seems a reasonable interim measure.

    They just can't manufacture millions of airbags in the time available, I think the Takata company may have gone broke already because of this, and other manufacturers are making the same design until they come up with modified designs.

    I can't see how an Australian Govt announcement is going to change the situation at all, unless there have been some manufacturers ignoring the current Safety Recall procedures, which I doubt, except in the case of imports which slip through the back door.

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    I understand prior to today's change of heart the recall was "voluntary".

    Which left the way open for car owner's to not replace the airbags.

    I'd suggest there will sharp decline in secondhand values of vehicles subject to recalls and a it will be quite a task for RWC inspectors to confirm the vehicle recall work has been done.

    Not to mention JDM imports like Toyota Estima, Nissan Elgrand, Mitsubishi AirTrek and a host of other imports which are not listed on the Australian recall list.

    The faqs on the recall site, helpfully, suggest owners of these vehicles contact the manufacturer in the country of origin for recall advice.

    And have passed the responsibility for replacement to the registered automotive workshop that did the original Australian compliance.

    Best of luck with that and don't expect any financial support from the Australian divisions of Toyota , Mitsubishi et al .

    I'd suggest a large number of people will ignore the recall entirely.

    All in all it's a cock up of major proportions.
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    It will just be another check when buying second hand cars with proof that the air bag has been replaced on the affected models, nothing much different to timing belt checks.

    No proof of the work being done just walk away or discount the car heavily so that you can get it replaced yourself.
    Regards Col

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    To quote robmac: "All in all its a cock-up of major proportions." Spectacularly so!
    It is incredible that in this day and age, with checks and counter checks that this can still happen.
    What about the Koleos? So far I cannot see Renault on the list, but Koleos is the love child of Nissan.
    And Nissan are heavily represented. That puts the Koleos in the frame. Surely?
    Last edited by Breitie; 1st March 2018 at 01:25 PM.

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    Millions of airbags were manufactured by Takata over many years.
    Ramping up production to not just continue production of safe ones but replace those countless millions is the basic problem.
    Itís a bit late for Takata whoíve gone out of business though.
    Talk about a poisoned pill!


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    On the other hand, the first recall of Takata airbags was in May 2013 which is almost 5 years ago which, you would think, would be ample time for a company/companies to gear up and do a big production run of new airbags. It also can't be a surprise that the government/s would call for mandatory replacement.

    Bean counters trying to protect the bottom line?

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    I guess it difficult to apply pressure to "bean counters" in now defunct company.

    And the vehicle makers will only do what is necessary under the relevant county's laws.
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    This is a massive world wide issue which 99% of the public havenít paid much/any attention to.
    Thinking of the odds, winning Tatts or whatever itís called, is a longer bet than being killed/seriously injured by one.
    Do you still feel lucky.
    Is it legal to disconnect and remove one?.
    If you have an accident and it goes off, as designed, is it safely deployed?.
    Iím seriously glad we arenít affected because I have a serviceable imagination.


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    I don't think the Xantia's airbag will be a problem. Most other things don't work on it anymore.

    I keep telling my wife to sit further from the steering wheel. The view of the road is just as good at twice the distance from the wheel. If the airbag does go off, her hands are going to make a mess of her eye sockets.

    Sadly the days of the CX with a brilliant crumple design and no airbags is long past, replaced by a cheaper solution.

    John

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    Privatise the profits, so I guess itís time to socialise the losses involved in speeding up the solution.
    Then apply Ďcost recoveryí ......?


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    Default Mandated Australian recall? re TAKATA dangerous air bags

    Implications for new and used car sales -

    https://premium.goauto.com.au/airbag...ate-car-sales/

    Thinking of trading in?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    Implications for new and used car sales -

    https://premium.goauto.com.au/airbag...ate-car-sales/

    Thinking of trading in?.
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    I can see this getting very messy and a lot of confusion happening between buyers and sellers.
    Regards Col

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    And an extended list tonight


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    I find it almost indecent that current model vehicles can have faulty airbags fitted.

    Why are the manufacturers still allowed to fit faulty airbags ?

    The recall was first announced 4 years ago.
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    Corrosion
    New Ďfaulty onesí are simply to buy time and thatís why some are incredulous about having to go back a second time.
    The magic production wand broke down too.
    And thereís no one around to throw stones at.


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    I wouldnít want to have one that hasnít been replaced but had spent most of its time in the high humidity tropics.


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    ďSadly the days of the CX with a brilliant crumple design and no airbags is long past, replaced by a cheaper solution.Ē
    Are you dead set serious .

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmccurtayne View Post
    ďSadly the days of the CX with a brilliant crumple design and no airbags is long past, replaced by a cheaper solution.Ē
    Are you dead set serious .
    Yes. The CX had a most sophisticated design to absorb the forces of a full frontal collision.
    • The engine was tilted and transverse, greatly reducing its likelihood of intrusion into the cabin.
    • There were two overriders on the front bumper attached to two square metal tubes. These tubes were slotted into another two tubes and tack welded. The idea being that a lot of force was absorbed breaking the tack welds a pushing the forward tube into the after tube. The after tube was welded to the front sub frame.
    • The front sub frame was connection on both sides to the rear sub frame by longerons (flat tubes), connected to the hull by about 9 high tensile bolts on each side. Like a straw, these were very difficult to compress by pushing from each end.


    Having written off a CX in an oblique frontal WITHOUT FEELING A THING and flinging an early model Nissan Navara onto its head about 5m away, I can attest to the efficacy of a variable absorption design commensurate with the forces involved. I knew of two other CX frontal collisions, one belonging to a friend who hit an out of control Valiant spinning down the road on a wet day and another of a full frontal involving an elderly couple hitting a Holden Statesman. The elderly couple survived with no serious injuries whilst the two occupants of the Statesman were killed.

    Airbags were originally designed for the USA market as they were unable to legislate or coerce their motorists to wear seat belts. Now they inhabit most passenger vehicles. They are a cheap solution and they are effective, but they are not the best solution. An airbag inflates at the same rate regardless of the forces it is designed to counteract. That can mean far too much force in a minor accident, one which just breeches the threshold to trigger the deployment. Occasionally they can go off for no reason at all and in those cases they can injure or kill people rather than protect them from injury. Bad placement of hands on the steering wheel and distance from the steering wheel have a direct impact upon collateral damage when the airbag is deployed. Wearing glasses doesn't help.

    Citroen was saved from bankruptcy after the CX by its acquisition by Peugeot. The rest of the world was saved from avant-garde design which had become synonymous with Citroen.

    John
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    OMG I agree a lot of older cars used structures to slow down a crash but if you truly believe that you were safer in older cars you lack basic understanding of the dynamics involved .

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    I know itís not as good as a cx but.
    https://youtu.be/joMK1WZjP7g

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    Also plenty of cars have duel stage airbags 307 etc

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    By the standards of the time they were built, large heavy cars designed to deform progressively offered the best protection. That's why so many people thought (and may still do) a large old Volvo, Mercedes and perhaps also a CX would offer a lot of protection.

    However, the world has moved on greatly and many people are unaware that the structure of a car is now built using very high strength steels that will protect the occupants in a way that older cars can't. Cars like a CX used layers of mild steel, which are relatively soft. If you were lucky, you found heat treated steel in the sills - e.g. 1980's+ Commodore.

    Add the active safety systems like ABS, ESP and airbags and, although it's an unfair comparison, the CX and others can't really rate against today's products. Compare the crash test vids for most quality 1990's cars and then for even cheaper cars from the mid 2000's and you will see a big difference. Especially if the car is T-boned. For example, look at a Xantia vs a first generation C4 or C5.

    This is for the C5 X7, released in 2008, showing aspects of the body construction:
    Mandated Australian recall? re TAKATA dangerous air bags-x7_body.jpg

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    Icon14 Consumers will walk away from their chosen product -interest of their own safety.

    Air bags have been a blessing in road safety, preventing many injuries and so a very good marketing ploy that has been effective in influencing parents to the extent that they would rather financially support their children buying "modern air bag protected cars" as a first choice rather than the traditional, hand me down old car or pre airbag model as their first car. I know that as one of my neighbours children wanted to acquire a Fuego because he liked my cars timeless classic lines and appearance, however his parents talked him out of that notion and encouraged him towards a b rand new air bag protected vehicle as a safer option for their loved offspring.

    Those same concerned and safety conscious parents are now facing their own decision with faulty air bag cars, do they drive and take the risk or cut that risk by looking to finance a new car that is not under a cloud due to possible faulty airbags and the however unlikely risk of fatal or serious injury if they opted to continue driving. I was listening to Peta Credlin on her program where she told how she had contacted all her relatives and friends urging them to not take any risk, to take their cars immediately off the road and don't allow them to be used, and I predict that this will be seen as the best most protective decision that one can make.

    There is a big marketing opportunity for new car makers of cars not effected by the recall or confident of the safety product to step in and make special deals to soak up this new "nervous owner" market as many will be looking for a quick way to minimize their personal risk, or the risk to people they care for in their families. Cost and convenience, a good deal and guarantees of extended warranty replacement, will be the driving force that will eliminate the problem facing the motor industry.

    Some will win and some will lose, but basically it is the average buyer that will drive the change, what then needs to happen is the government to step in to subsidize the scrapping of any cars that are not fixed, and owners will be demanding this to help mitigate the cost of their safety decision to cease using the car and as a common sense initiative to scrap the problem and working with the remainder of the motoring industry in Australia.

    I expect most manufacturers will protect themselves from huge compensation claims, but in the end only a few owners will sue for compensation, though there may be a series of group style claims as to the selling of a defective product, albeit by another part maker who has since protectively gone out of business.

    many owners will simply walk away from marques they have supported in years gone by and write any loss of money in the process to their need for safety and a write off under terms of learning and their own experience. my for what it is worth!

    Ken.

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