Diagnostic advice 1.4 petrol
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Thread: Diagnostic advice 1.4 petrol

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Default Diagnostic advice 1.4 petrol

    Hi all,
    Have an issue with a 2006 Berlingo 1.4 petrol, I understand this engine is in some other models and pugs as well.
    Driving out to a meal last night, car seemed down on power, like you were in a gear too high, had the AC on so thought not too much about it.
    Later driving home AC was off , and the car was way down on power, very noticeable on hills. Then about a km from home there was squeal from the engine that increased with revs. The engine has a serpentine and belt that drives power steering,alt and AC , so I thought maybe the tensioner bearing was gone.
    We have a long steep drive, car couldn't get up, no power.
    So this morning, I removed the belt and tested the various pulleys and tensioner, all were fine.
    Ran the motor again and the screeching sound was the same.
    So my guess is the tensioners on the timing belt have done a bearing, as these run on the back of the cogged timing belt.
    However how would this affect the power?
    Interestingly the timing belt and water pump were replaced by a mechanic about six weeks ago, ideas?
    Steve

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Frog View Post
    Hi all,
    Have an issue with a 2006 Berlingo 1.4 petrol, I understand this engine is in some other models and pugs as well.
    Driving out to a meal last night, car seemed down on power, like you were in a gear too high, had the AC on so thought not too much about it.
    Later driving home AC was off , and the car was way down on power, very noticeable on hills. Then about a km from home there was squeal from the engine that increased with revs. The engine has a serpentine and belt that drives power steering,alt and AC , so I thought maybe the tensioner bearing was gone.
    We have a long steep drive, car couldn't get up, no power.
    So this morning, I removed the belt and tested the various pulleys and tensioner, all were fine.
    Ran the motor again and the screeching sound was the same.
    So my guess is the tensioners on the timing belt have done a bearing, as these run on the back of the cogged timing belt.
    However how would this affect the power?
    Interestingly the timing belt and water pump were replaced by a mechanic about six weeks ago, ideas?
    Steve
    I have no idea, but my advice would be to contact the mechanic that did the work as there is definitely a problem and one would think it would be covered by warranty.

    I would also get your invoice and take that with you as well.
    Regards Col

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    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Hi all,
    Thanks Col for the reply, tried that but the mechanic is holidaying for another 2 weeks apparently.
    Soooo..... Thought I would investigate further as we need to use the car rather than have it parked up for weeks.
    Have taken off the plastic covers that cover the timing belt, and all auxiliaries are disconnected.
    This is what you see and hear...
    https://youtu.be/Xr8zIzJU3SA
    Can't see any discernable wearing, although the edge of the belt is brownish in spots.
    When the engine is reved the squealing occurs and there is visible smoke whisps, but very difficult to identify where it is coming from.
    As noted before the timing belt, tensioner and water pump where replaced six weeks ago but this has just arisen. The tensioner is an automated type with an indicator for correct tension, and it appears fine. However I had the old tensioner so I swapped it in. (Followed all the procedures per manual, pins in flywheel and cam pulley, turned by hand and rechecked with pins etc)
    But squeal occurs with old tensioner in place.
    Running out of ideas, thinking it could only be water pump bearing ? But it is new, and when I had the tensioner off grabbing it didn't show any sign of play.
    There is a small coolant stain at the weep hole but research says this is normal in the first 10 secs of fitting and bedding in of pump, there is no dripping here.
    Any suggestions appreciated, I can't be the first person to have this problem.
    Steve

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    COL
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    In that video you have linked on YouTube sounds like a dry bearing.

    Does your car have idler pulleys and if it does where these changed when the timing belt was done?
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
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    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Hi Col
    The timing belt goes around the cam pulley at top, crank pulley at bottom, cogged water pump pulley and the tensioner. Pump and tensioner were new.

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    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Diagnostic advice 1.4 petrol-image.jpgthe whole set up

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    COL
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    OK when you swapped the belt tensioner did you check the water pump bearings? that is spin it to see if it felt rough.

    Failing this the noise must be coming from somewhere else, you may need to track down where the noise is coming from by using a long handled screw driver or a stethoscope.

    Sorry I can't be more help, I did have a noise in a 1397 Renault engine years ago and that turned out to be a noisy rear main seal and that took some tracking down.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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    While the auxiliary belt is off check that both the alternator pulley and power steering pump pulley can be turned freely. If these stick the belt has little choice but squeal, and engine power is consumed. If the alternator pulley has a one way clutch check it locks in the reverse direction also. I assume you went up the drive with the AC off.

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    Hi Steve
    Sorry about your problem. Had no direct experience so these are just general ideas.
    To pinpoint the noise better get a length of 1/4" plastic tube from the shed or hardware shop and use that to poke around the front area, carefully, with the other end in your good ear
    Does that engine have a rubber insert pulley on the bottom crank pulley drive. These can 'slip' as the rubber insert ages and even fail to drive properly. If so it may be almost failed.
    Just another thought on those rubber insert pulleys. When they slip the outer part can move sideways and it may be rubbing on the cover, or the belt may be running well off the original line and rubbing on something.
    Good luck Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 12th January 2018 at 01:45 PM.
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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Big Frog's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input.
    I have another water pump on the way, I figure that if I swap it, then I know it isn't the pump or the tensioner.
    There is a pulley on the crankshaft that runs the aux belt, but this has been removed, so that is eliminated, as are all the accessories such as alt, power steering, aux tensioner, idler and AC compressor.
    Is there any way know to man kind that the crankshaft or the cam shaft can become miss aligned? In my mind I struggle to see how as they are long and we'll supported ( unlike pump and tensioner). What is acceptable crankshaft end play i.e. along the crankshaft centre line? I could imagine that it could cause misalignment of the belt?

    I will report back after new pump install
    Steve
    Last edited by Big Frog; 12th January 2018 at 02:41 PM.

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    While you are at it, check the timing Crank - Cam. It probably jumped a tooth which would explain low power.
    "We prefer to believe what we prefer to be true"
    Francis Bacon

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    Thanks JoBo,
    Inserted pins in the flywheel and the camshaft pulley as per the manual when I swapped over the tensioner, all seemed good and lined up
    Steve

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    Hi Big Frog,

    Forgive me if this is a bit left field.

    One of the fundamental laws of physics is conservation of energy. Energy in = energy out.

    If the fuel is not coming out as mechanical energy, it will come out as heat, smoke or light instead.

    So perhaps try running the engine a bit and see what is heating up - either by touch or a cheapy ebay pyrometer.

    Cheers,
    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '71? Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    Hi Andrew
    Worth a try, if the new water pump isn't the solution, I have an IR meter.

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