"Overheard"And
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Thread: "Overheard"And

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    Default "Overheard"And

    I was walking behind a group of people going home from the beach. They were discussing their cars, etc.
    One commented about the hard ride on the car she was currently in ... and commented that another was harder still, and made her sick to travel in.

    Having driven a slew of Mercedes a while ago, I found the cheap ones harsh indeed, and then, I'm not all that happy with some late model Citroens either.

    At 110km max anyways, and with the amount of city driving most of us do ...."harsh riding" would seem to be a really bad idea; a pretty shabby outcome of "modern" technology, and over a century of evolution.

    "Ride" was always 75% of why I chose Citroen.

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    Why are people buying these (mostly expensive) cars that "might " handle well (assuming you ever really get to test that out) when we really should have some ride comfort as a priority? Or is it just me? (And, yes, the "E" class rides well ...)
    Last edited by garyk; 7th January 2018 at 02:42 AM.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  2. #2
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    If you were driving predominantly on roads like the Autobahn, I guess ride comfort would be less of a factor than driving on some of our roads (eg M1 Tuggerah to Doyalson that they are currently repairing)
    Last edited by turnbull151; 7th January 2018 at 01:11 PM.

  3. #3
    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    I remember about a decade ago I was given a lift by a solicitor in his brand new 5 series BMW.
    It was like sitting at a bus stop.

    Dave
    2008 Renault Laguna 2.0 dCi break
    ​1997 BMW K1200RS

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  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! iLaguna's Avatar
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    My Mk2 Megane rides very nicely and is one of the reasons why I like it so much. It just soaks up all the bumps and is very smooth. It was the same with my previous two Laguna wagons I had, both handled very well, but the Latitude which I recently sold to my brother, it's ride was a bit hard and more firm and would sometimes bounce around corners at high speed on country roads.

    I like a car to feel solid on the road, which is why I don't think I could buy something like a Kia.
    2013 Peugeot 2008 Active 1.6L Auto Wagon - Current Drive
    2006 Renault Megane Expression 2.0L Auto Hatch - Current Drive
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    2002 Renault Laguna Privilege 3.0L V6 Auto Wagon - Past Drive
    1995 Renault 19 Alize 1.8L Manual Sedan - Past Drive
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  5. #5
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    Difficult to argue with the original post. Most people, that is the 99% of drivers who drive fast, but only in a straight line, have no concept of "ride".

    They know only the price, the look, the cachet, and the number of cup-holders.

    The ride, harsh as it may be, means that the car will perform, and in particular corner, at far higher levels than the driver has skill for. How they can pick the difference in the firmness of the seat, or firmness of suspension, when it goes nowhere near being tested, is a bit difficult to tell.

    To see sports cars do 50 in a 60 zone, then slow to 30 before a large corner that I can take at 70, leaves me speechless. And I have seen them all, including WRX and AMG.

    To turnbull151, it is "autobahn".

    And nothing has changed in BMW for 30 years. In 1986 I spent 3hrs in one, the seat of which was so hard that I had to squirm just to stop my hip from breaking.

  6. #6
    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dijon16 View Post
    The ride, harsh as it may be, means that the car will perform, and in particular corner, at far higher levels than the driver has skill for.
    A car doesn't have to have firm suspension to handle well. Look at the long travel 406 and R16 to show this (although the latter may scrape its door handles...). It's just lazy engineering as it's much harder to have good handling AND comfort.

    I believe 17" wheels are the perfect compromise, but marketing types like big wheels to fill the arches, making the job of the aforementioned suspension engineers so much harder.

    There is the story (truth uncertain) that Ford headhunted the top Peugeot suspension engineers in the 1990s. It must be said that Pugs lost their magic carpet ride/handling prowess on models that followed.

    Dave
    2008 Renault Laguna 2.0 dCi break
    ​1997 BMW K1200RS

    IR655
    (George Bush Snr): "I'll never apologize for the United States of America. Ever, I don't care what the facts are."


  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! lozenge's Avatar
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    so much of this is about the slavish following of fashion,
    which is such a dominant element in most car design.
    hence big alloy wheels and low profiile tyres.
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    Around me, the place is filling with well-off immigrants from the Middle Kingdom. They all sport a Merc. No wonder Mercedes has gone to being a common car on the road. These buyers aren't interested in ride quality or handling. It's a matter of what their fellows think of them.

    I know of only one exception nearby, who has a Holden. I once asked that chap where he had come from: raised in PNG and here over thirty years .
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    Yes. Some people "just have to own" a BMW. Pref. black. Real estate agents (or is that a black Merc?)

    Yes, it may be a bit more effort to get ride/handling excellence ... my ex- Xantia Activa could do both with aplomb.
    Probably out handled most cars.

    The present C5 handles remarkably well "if pushed" ... but who gets to "push" on 99.998% of journeys?
    And, I love doing the fast "speed hump" thing and watching all the others slow to a crawl...especially the lowered firm suspension cars.

    So, "performance" is a combination of things, certainly not just going around corners. Especially in the real world.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  10. #10
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    I am old enough to remember that one of the main reasons that Families purchased large American cars post war was because of the comfortable ride and handling. The anti American brigade found that it was trendy to dismiss that as too soft a ride, wallowing, etc.

    Seems marketing will always fool some.

    I like my Laguna for its comfortable ride and handling, but then some attack that, too - horses for courses I say. But buy what you like!

    Ken

  11. #11
    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    I am old enough to remember that one of the main reasons that Families purchased large American cars post war was because of the comfortable ride and handling. The anti American brigade found that it was trendy to dismiss that as too soft a ride, wallowing, etc.

    Ken
    Come on Ken, they most certainly wallowed with their marshmallow suspension...

    Dave
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  12. #12
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    Icon14 Of course, but bloody comfortable.

    Quote Originally Posted by 68 404 View Post
    Come on Ken, they most certainly wallowed with their marshmallow suspension...

    Dave
    That they probably did, but the big ones that I rode in as a kid were remarkably comfortable when being driven around on Victorian roads and so much nicer than the English utilitarian stuff and of course our old 1927 Willys Whippet that had stiff suspension, balloon tyres, but it had its good points too as it could drive through flood waters and slush that would bog the big wallowers

    Many a times we rescued the occupants of the big yank tanks in the late 1940's and 50's that were stranded in minor floods or mud.

    Ken
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  13. #13
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    Come off it Ken. I remember them too. On a mountain road they were so unsafe they had to be nursed around the bends. Their massive overhangs scraped driveways, and unpaved roads could scrape the underside. It was hard to believe they came from the same country as earlier US cars with huge clearance.

    I didn't think ride was impressive then, I only remember rocking. It was the V8s you remember and the easy passing of the 80 mph mark.
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  14. #14
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    Icon7 Wasn't a driver in those days, that came later main impact of experience was.....

    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Come off it Ken. I remember them too. On a mountain road they were so unsafe they had to be nursed around the bends. Their massive overhangs scraped driveways, and unpaved roads could scrape the underside. It was hard to believe they came from the same country as earlier US cars with huge clearance.

    I didn't think ride was impressive then, I only remember rocking. It was the V8s you remember and the easy passing of the 80 mph mark.
    Nah in those days I was more impressed with the softness and finish of the upholstering and what came through the comfort of the suspension to impact on my young bottom, perhaps I was also a me, me product of my time. I liked what I felt or rather didn't feel on my backside.

    Ken

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Dijon16's Avatar
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    The present C5 handles remarkably well "if pushed" ... but who gets to "push" on 99.998% of journeys?
    And, I love doing the fast "speed hump" thing and watching all the others slow to a crawl...especially the lowered firm suspension cars.


    I do, so a couple of disagreements there. I had a 406 SV before my current C5 HDi 2010. The 406 handled competently, but still measurably better than the C5, in exactly the same circumstances.

    The steering is too light and vague for my liking, lacking feel. It is not as good as the Kia Cerato that I just hired. Have Michelin tyres, which may make a difference.

    And, assuming that there is nothing wrong with mine, speed humps are a nightmare. The front just shoves up on approach, then audibly drops the other side. On both settings.

    My brother has a BX and he just doesn't bother to slow down for the buggers. I was kind of expecting the same from my suspension. Should I be looking at spheres, accumulators, or engine mounts?

  16. #16
    JBN
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    I have a 1995 Citroen Xantia VSX - my wife's daily driver. Just bought 8 new comfort spheres from France at an all up cost of $600 delivered to my door. The slightly larger spheres give an even better ride than original. The Hydralastic system cuts out the two centre spheres under "excited" driving conditions, so one gets a good ride around town and on the highway and good handling if pushed.

    I found with both the CXs I have owned and both the BXs I have owned (plus the current Xantia) that the trick to speed humps is hit them at an angle, so that one wheel starts to compress before the other. This works a lot better on hydraulic suspensions than hitting the bump simultaneously. Try it. If you are still unhappy, a 2CV or GS is what you want.

    The 2CV could do 80kph over the speed humps in a 50kph zone. Since that is a licence losing trick, I only did it one day over six bumps at Sylvania Waters in the Shire, many years ago. There was a lot of clanging from the suspension but the car was stable as.

    John

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    The '50s americana were dismissed at the time for a reason. If you wanted a nice ride and good handling you could have bought a DS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lozenge View Post
    so much of this is about the slavish following of fashion,
    which is such a dominant element in most car design.
    hence big alloy wheels and low profiile tyres.
    You get the prize Mr lozenge! It's the 'trendy' large rims and low profile tyres that generally produce a harsher ride.
    Stupid in my opinion, to invest in tyres that have hardly any rubber, especially on our very ordinary and mostly crappy roads
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Nah in those days I was more impressed with the softness and finish of the upholstering and what came through the comfort of the suspension to impact on my young bottom, perhaps I was also a me, me product of my time. I liked what I felt or rather didn't feel on my backside.

    Ken
    My '62 Chevrolet Bel Air was extremely comfortable and was used extensively in the Dandenong Hills in the eighties. Spirited driving produced no surprises and I never found the limit of the brakes or the handling, probably due to seventeen turns lock to lock steering, a baby 283 cu in V8 and the dreaded Powerglide two speed transmission. It was quite a pleasant car with it's snakeskin upholstery and quarter vents for the smokers.
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    I had one of them too Kim and fully agree.....those were the days! Oh, where did they go? not to mention the BIG seats suitable for some rumpy pumpy at the the drive ins ......
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    I had my MIL's pillarless bronze Bel Air lose its brake master cylinder around midday one Saturday in the main street of Nhill en route to Adelaide, best part of 50 years ago, and more or less exactly halfway to our destination. From there on, all the way to Murray Bridge, I was advised in each town along the way to "just take it easy, it's pretty flat between here and [wherever the next town was]". A complicating factor, though, wasn't just the useless two-speed slushbox, but the all-or-nothing parking brake, which had to be applied by foot and released by hand under the dash, so you couldn't finesse it at all.

    After a moment of terror entering Tailem Bend where the road crossed the railway line, and the setting sun momentarily convinced me that a train was imminent (though I could've seen one coming, for miles in each direction), I somehow managed to drag the car to a shuddering stop ... straddling the railway line ...

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