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  1. #26
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    Hi All.
    Thanks for all the feedback, I have been able to remove the front guard and now in the process of preparing it replacing it. I have attached a photo of a T shirt I designed to get feedback on what fellow Pug owners thing. i had to hand draw my 505 and created the print in Microsoft publisher. appreciate any feedback on design,Click image for larger version. 

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    Cheers Kooti

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  2. #27
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    Very nice on the shirt. If you have enough interest, perhaps other Pugs later on, maybe even other marques.

    Sent from my LGLS755 using aussiefrogs mobile app
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  3. #28
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    Hi All
    I'm in need of urgent help. I had my engine pulled down for an oil leak and it is now back together, however mechanic is stuck, he is unable to remember how this unit is hooked up "please see attached photo" is any one able to help with information/diagrams/photos. Any help would be much appreciated.
    Kooti Needs Help-505-vacuum.jpg
    Thanks Kooti
    Last edited by Kooti; 27th February 2018 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Spelling mistake

  4. #29
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    Hi All..

    Kooti back again. I forgot to ask, does anyone know what the unit shown in the picture on in my last post actually does? also can the engine run without it? If so how do i by pass it?
    As always any help would be appreciated
    Thanks Koots

  5. #30
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    Hi, The unit in question does two things, the knob on the end is for idle speed adjustment and the solenoid is for speeding the motor up to counter the speed drop when you switch the air con. on, I'll try and get some photos, although it's a bit tricky to see all the parts. if not I'll get you a detailed description of where each hose goes, unless someone beats me to it.
    Regards
    Neil

  6. #31
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    Hi, The unit in question does two things, the knob on the end is for idle speed adjustment and the solenoid is for speeding the motor up to counter the speed drop when you switch the air con. on, I'll try and get some photos, although it's a bit tricky to see all the parts. if not I'll get you a detailed description of where each hose goes, unless someone beats me to it.
    Regards
    Neil

  7. #32
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    Thanks Neal. That info would be very much appreciated. Our car club have a car show here at Kootingal weekend after next and all going well I was hoping to get my car back before then. However these hiccups are sent to try our knowledge and love of of our Pugs so any help you are able to give is fantastic.
    Cheers Kooti

  8. #33
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    Hi Kooti, firstly your mechanic should have three hoses spare or three hoses not connected on one end, also he should have a plate and two small bolts which hold the air con solenoid/idle sped unit under the air intake chamber. The following along with the attached photos should explain how it all fits together.
    The hose from the outlet nearest the solenoid and on the side nearest the front of the motor runs to the pipe that connects to the injectors - see first image.
    The hose from the outlet furthest from the solenoid and on the side nearest the front of the motor runs to drivers side of the auxiliary air valve - see image two
    The hose from the outlet on the rear of the unit goes up to the air intake pipe that runs between the dome and the throttle body.
    Image three shows the location of the air con solenoid idle speed unit seen in your image, trust this helps.
    Regards
    Neil
    Kooti Needs Help-rimg0073_li-2-.jpgKooti Needs Help-rimg0077_li.jpgKooti Needs Help-rimg0072_li.jpg

  9. #34
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    Thanks Neal. I have passed the info and photos you sent to my mechanic. Info was appreciated. I have another ask of your knowledge' I have attached some photos with questions and arrows on them. the photos are of my engine which because it has an earlier injection system seems to be a different setup from most info i can find. One is of manifold Vacuum connections, the other is the same issue as we previously discussed. my manifold has a vacuum connection on the very front of it as you will see in the photo.Kooti Needs Help-my-engine.jpgClick image for larger version. 

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    the photos you sent seem to be the same setup under the manifold as mine is however because of the different attachment positions to the manifold and intake it is very confusing for me.
    Hope you can clarify for me, Thanks Kooti

  10. #35
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    Hi Kooti
    Firstly, from your photos your engine seems to have the normal K-Jectronic injection system common to 505 STi's, so the following should answer your questions.
    1. The rear pipe under the air chamber goes to a "T" Piece that connects the Vacuum chamber & the econometer lights control valve - see image
    2. The middle pipe under the air chamber goes to the outlet on the drivers side of the raised housings on the rear of the rocker cover - see image.
    3. The front pipe under the air chamber goes across the front of the engine to a "T" Piece that connects to a vale in the hose on the front of the motor and the air pulse valve that sits on the drivers side near the top of the air cleaner housings - see image
    4. The pie on the end of front end of the air chamber goes to the passenger side of the auxiliary air valve - see image. I've also included an overview photo of the motor to give your a clear picture of what it should look like as some of your hoses appear to run in the wrong position, trust this helps
    Regards Neil
    Kooti Needs Help-rimg0002_li-2-.jpgKooti Needs Help-rimg0016_li.jpgKooti Needs Help-rimg0013_li-2-.jpgKooti Needs Help-rimg0013_li.jpgKooti Needs Help-rimg0012.jpg

  11. #36
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    Thanks Neal.
    The photos certainly clear up the Vacuum connections and other issue's for me, I think you are right, things have not been connected correctly from before I purchased the car. your help and patience has definitely been a big help. i have passed on your info and photos to the mechanic.
    Will let you know the outcome.
    Regards Kooti

  12. #37
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    Pleased to help. I meant to mention that in my photo of the engine bay you may notice that I've re routed the air con hoses to behind the battery, it gets them out the way and gives easier access to some parts of the engine, I've also added headlight, radiator fans and starter motor relays, look forward to hearing of a successful outcome.
    Regards
    Neil

  13. #38
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    Hi Neal
    Update!! 505 all back together & ready to start, however there is a new issue, starter motor has decided to fail. wants to, but won't engage. looks to be an awful job to remove, would have been much easier if I had done preventative maintenance, removed and had it rebuilt while engine was apart. Hindsight is a wonderful but very unhelpful thing. Has anyone out there have the secret to removing the starter motor without removing the intake manifold, lots of swearing, skinned knuckles or scrapping the car. Any help would at this point would be appreciated, even sympathy will be accepted.
    All very frustrating.
    Regards Kooti
    Last edited by Kooti; 8th March 2018 at 06:07 PM. Reason: spelling

  14. #39
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    Hi, That's certainly bad luck, but don't panic, it's quite an easy job if you know how and easier still if on a hoist, manuals are easier that autos because the of different gearbox shape and may be easier if you have the silver colored bulkhead insulation as that tends to have crumbled away at the bottom, so proceed as follows, as per on a hoist.
    Firstly disconnect the radiator hoses, then take of the fan shroud, assuming you have the original fan, not electric.
    then disconnect the two large fuel lines from the fuel distribution unit, then disconnect battery leads, then remove diagonally opposite bolts from the engine cross member and replace with 50 mm longer bolts
    then support the cross member while removing the remaining original bolts and lower the cross member onto the longer bolts
    Then disconnect wiring on starter motor, then remove starter motor bolts and remove starter motor, replace in reverse order, to remove the top starter motor bolt, which is near the top of the gearbox, I use a universal joint and several long socket extensions angling up the side and over the top of the gearbox, about 6 to 800 mmm long.
    note when buying a new starter motor, make sure you buy one that has threads in the mounting plate not one the requires nuts as that makes the job much harder, this all sounds a lot but it really is very straightforward and should only take an hour to do, let me know if more info is needed or if not being done on a hoist.
    regards
    Neil

  15. #40
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    I second that ,easy job to lower engine and x member ,mine had a funny brush set up ,they were shaped like a slice of pie and contacted the end of the commutator instead of the side ,i managed to get a replacement set [this was some time ago ] and it worked fine till i sold it ,from memory i did mine on stands off the ground .pugs

  16. #41
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    Hi
    I also meant to mention that if you have the silver coloured insulation, check it first, because if it has fallen away at the bottom, then you should be able to do the job without disconnecting the radiator hoses, fuel lines or radiator shroud and not lower the cross member. I did it this way on my cars for years before I replaced the insulation with the later black rubber one and that was just putting the car up on ramps. However I also should mention that if this does not work and you have to take the fan shroud of, then you need to remove the fan to do so, not hard.
    Regards
    Neil

  17. #42
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    Hi Kooti

    Sorry, I forgot to mention that if lowering the cross member, you should also disconnect the gear lever from the gearbox.
    Regards
    Neil

  18. #43
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    Hi Everyone.
    Kooti back again with more issues. the starter motor was removed only to find when checked by auto electrician there was nothing wrong with it. The auto electrician has diagnosed a power drop as the issue, however as he only dropped in for a few minutes when returning the starter he did not have time to find where the problem is. The solenoid will kick in but starter will not enough engage with enough power to turn the engine. Have checked all the earth connection and they seem OK. Has anyone had an issue like this, if so, are you able to help with any information on how was it resolved.
    Appreciate any help.
    Thanks Kooti

  19. #44
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    Have you cleaned the contacts in the solenoid?
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kooti View Post
    Hi Everyone.
    Kooti back again with more issues. the starter motor was removed only to find when checked by auto electrician there was nothing wrong with it. The auto electrician has diagnosed a power drop as the issue, however as he only dropped in for a few minutes when returning the starter he did not have time to find where the problem is. The solenoid will kick in but starter will not enough engage with enough power to turn the engine. Have checked all the earth connection and they seem OK. Has anyone had an issue like this, if so, are you able to help with any information on how was it resolved.
    Appreciate any help.
    Thanks Kooti
    Hi Kooti
    That sounds like a standard failure mode where the solenoid contacts are burnt but still making some contacts. As JoBo said. I might suggest another auto electrician. You can often dismantle the solenoid with some careful force and clean the contacts flat and shiny and then reassemble it. Or just buy a new one.
    When I ran a repair business I always assumed that customers did not bring things in just for the exercise, so if it seemed OK then look harder before saying it must be something else !!!
    Jaahn

  21. #46
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    Hi All.
    Thanks for all who replied. Had the starter re-checked out of the car, auto elec said all is good, starter apparently not that old. Still have voltage drop from unknown cause, not enough power to turn engine over even with a booster, any suggestions???
    Also can anyone tell me does my 84 --505 have an onboard computer? Mine has early injection system, I think it is Early Ktronic? I think that info is right? Can anyone help? If it does have a computer where is it and could this be the problem.
    I'm tearing my hair out, at least what is left of it that is.
    starter seems to be out of a different model as it does not thread for retaining bolts in starter housing, however it was working OK before the head was removed to fix oil leak. Has not been started because of power drop issue since being put back together. All earth connections have been checked and in some cases replaced.
    AAAAAARRGGHHH. Please help before I become very disappointed Peugeot owner.
    Thanks Kooti
    Last edited by Kooti; 11th April 2018 at 07:05 PM. Reason: grammar

  22. #47
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    Hi Kooti
    Please note that I am sitting at my computer not at your car so these are educated guesses.
    The 'computer' for your car would be an early analogue unit which does not control everything like the current digital ones. So probably not the cause of the starter malfunction.
    If you suspect a serious (or small) voltage drop then a suggestion to track it down is this. Do a voltage drop check on the current path to the starter and the return earth path back to the battery. A multi meter needed, set on DC volts 12v or so range to start. Two people would help, one to do the meter probing and reading , one to operate the starter.

    Connect the positive probe to the battery terminal itself, and the other probe to the starter motor input lead where it goes into the starter body. Turn the key and see what voltage you get while it is trying to go. Should be only a volt or two. Then do the same but with the probe on the battery lead connection to the solenoid terminal. Should be almost the same as the first. Then do again with the meter probe on the battery lead clamp on the battery. If these reading are just a volt or two the positive side on the supply is good. If they are higher than that then there is a high resistance and the jump in voltage should indicate the area to look at.

    If the readings are good then go to the negative, ground side. Negative probe on the battery terminal itself, then the positive probe on the starter body. Try. Then the probe on the engine block. Then the probe on any engine/body grounding lead. Then on the earth strap to the body. Then the earth battery clamp. This should show if there is an excessive volt drop at any point in the battery return circuit.


    If the starter is not cranking the engine then I suspect you will find there is a point in the circuit, either the positive side or the earth return where suddenly you will see almost 12 volts. Then you have found a bad connection, broken wire, earth strap left off, or similar. Even corroded battery clamps perhaps.
    Good luck Jaahn
    PS be extremely careful in there with the engine cranking. Disconnect the HT spark lead to the dissy so it cannot start.
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  23. #48
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    ^ I agree, and cannot see how it could be the analogue computer.

    Kooti, it is possible that as the "starter seems to be out of a different model as it does not thread for retaining bolts in starter housing" that because of this, the starter may be earthing enough to activate the solenoid, but not be earthing onto the engine enough to crank it.

    If you follow Jaahn's advice the problem will most likely be revealed. After all, the auto elec did say it as a voltage drop.

    With all your starting attempts, please ensure that the battery is always topped up and has a full charge.

    By the way, do the headlights work well on high beam ?

  24. #49
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    Hi Kooti

    Firstly your car has K-Jet mechanical fuel injection with no computer, secondly you may be missing the locating dowel on the starter motor flange which may cause it to jam against the ring gear, also you probably have the right model starter motor but unfortunately some replacement ones came without threaded mounting holes, as per one of my previous posts. Thinking outside the box a little, since this is the first start up following the engine rebuild, it may be that the engine is to tight to turn over, possibly due to an error in reassembly, most likely of the big end bearings.
    Regards
    Neil

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TassieExec View Post
    since this is the first start up following the engine rebuild, it may be that the engine is too tight to turn over, possibly due to an error in reassembly, most likely of the big end bearings.
    True. It's easy to install a big end bearing cap around the wrong way if you get distracted.
    My confession : I did that in 1983, on my first 504.

    Kooti, how easy is your engine to turn over by hand ? Any stiffness ?

    Locating dowel, TassieExec ? Do you mean this bit pictured in red ?


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