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    JBN
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    Default Electric Vehicles Australia

    I have seen articles on TV News lately talking about the demise of Ford and GMH manufacturing and suggesting that Australia should manufacture electric vehicles because ..they are so suited for Australia.

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    I think they may have meant Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane. Yes, that argument can be made, but Australia? I expect many of these gurus haven't travelled the Nullabour or Gibb River Road or even Sydney to Melbourne or Sydney to Brisbane. I know of an elderly gentleman who has a Tesla and he does Sydney to Melbourne over two days, charging the Tesla from the motel electricity.

    At a time where Australia's electricity supply is below par with the prospects of blackouts, I think the electric car's days are still somewhat in the future in the vastness of Australia.

    The Dutch had the right idea. Remove all the hills, shrink the country to a miniscule size and if it takes too long to charge the car, use a push bike.

    John
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    John I think there's a business opportunity here - if we can just come up with a cunning plan... Don't forget John, it's Dutch teams who win our Darwin-Adelaide electric car race, so it might be your Dutch brain that we need to figure this one out!

    Now everyone knows that (sooner or later) our overlords are going to decree that the last few barrels of crude oil must be reserved for manufacturing plastics, so we can continue polluting the land and the oceans at the rate they've come to expect. So we need to accept that the electric car might be the only choice you'll get fairly soon!

    We just need a bit of good old-fashioned Aussie ingenuity to make them useable - we've always been good at re-purposing old stuff for new uses. We just need to increase the electric car's range on the highway...

    I know - what about battery trailers! Just fit all electric cars with a standard towbar and electrical connector, and set up battery trailer rental places on the main roads outside of the big cities. No need to invent fancy purpose-built trailers - all the small cars that will be redundant when we can't buy petrol can be re-purposed. Rip out the engine, gut the interior, and stuff them full of batteries. Some could be cut in half and used to make two trailers!

    Just imagine the enjoyment for children on long trips, naming the funny old cars that are now battery trailers - there's a Mini, and behind that a Beetle. Coming the other way a Fiat Bambino, and goodness me! is that half a 2CV traveling faster than it ever could have under it's own steam (oh wait - they were air-cooled, so no steam...).

    The possibilities are endless!

    Cheers

    Alec

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    Or a battery powered generator on a trailer to keep the charge up in the cars' battery as we drive. Would that be perpetual energy?.
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    Charging wirelessly from drone? Not sure if this is just pie in the sky(!) https://qz.com/1103927/amazon-amzn-w...youre-driving/

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    Hi,
    yes, it is just pie in the sky.

    Regards,
    John

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    If you put a wind turbine on the trailer, you can charge the car via the turbine.

    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    Or a battery powered generator on a trailer to keep the charge up in the cars' battery as we drive. Would that be perpetual energy?.
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    I think a lot of these ideas parallel the concept of direct solar powered driving lights.........
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    We looked at buying a new car and investigated an electric vehicle.
    A Tesla sports was only 2 door. The more affordable model 3 $35k (us) was only a little more than the Renault Zoe at $40k plus.(we saw it in Paris for 20k euros) 30k $aud.
    So an electric car is not viable for us right now. We bought a Peugeot 2008, fully expecting that the next car will be electric.

    I’m surprised that the transition is taking so long but I’m also wary of the first run models that may prove problematic for the earlier adopters.

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    I think for Australia right now a fully electric vehicle is not exactly viable unless you drive it to work and back every day and that's it. Interstate travel would still need a petrol or hybrid car. Which is not a bad idea. I actually like the Prius, much as people despise it. I think for what it is, is a very practical car and a serious contender for a family car as long as the family does not expand too much. The only moment you will suffer in a Prius is if you fully load it (four adults plus luggage). You will feel it is a little underpowered. I wonder what the new 1.8l cars are like in that department.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 23rd October 2017 at 01:29 AM.
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    We (3 adults with luggage) took a Prius taxi from Hobart air port and it didn't feel under powered at all. The taxi owner/driver liked it more than any other car he owned. Economical and durable, at 350,000km still going strong.
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    I think the Prius is an excellent vehicle, but fully electric it ain't. Large energy cost to build them and years for payback in that department - good if you really knock up the kilometres but not for low km use like we have. I totally agree that they are much better than Foulcans as taxis, too. I'll vouch for the 350,000 km trouble-free life, from chats with Brisbane taxis in the last few years. Very impressive.

    For our purposes, an electric car with a 200-400 km range (e.g. Renault Zoe) would do 98% of our journeys perfectly adequately. Think Perth to Margaret River, for example, as well as city trips (which can be up to 200 km in Perth). But we have Scenics for other reasons of practicability. You can get them secondhand for well under $10,000. An electric Kango with two rows of seats, or an electric Scenic, would be wonderful.

    The proportion of Australians doing interstate or intercity driving is, on most days I'd guess, rather less than 10% of the population, maybe only 1-2%. I reckon that if more types of electric car were available and secondhand ones were starting to appear, with some form of battery insurance and a way of assessing the remaining life in that battery system, I'd be in the market. But no way are we going to spend $30,000 to $40,000 on a new car of the wrong size/configuration for our needs so that we have an electric one, much as I agree they are what we should be doing.

    We visited Norway earlier this year - dramatic numbers of electric cars there, at least in Oslo. They're cashed up of course but I think they are approaching the concept from the positive side.

    So, perhaps this is an area for Gov't incentives and leadership. Oh, bugger. No chance........ Coal-fired cars anyone? A Stanley steamer with a pulverised lignite fuel feed? And a bucket so you can top up the water from the nearest dam?
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    Icon10 Solving the problem before the problem, if it is a problem?

    Missed opportunity I think, if they hadn't set up the nanny electric car conversion regulations, it would have been attractive for D.I.Y. experimenter's to do their own cheap conversion of existing vehicles and then push through to doing commercial conversions and perhaps a locally produced cheap urban electric vehicle.

    Of course if we wait a bit most of us will qualify for electric wheelchairs, well that is, if the greenies don't work out a way to kill off anyone over 30 legally. (after a suitable tax contribution of course!!) apparently that would solve all problems

    Ken
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    We (3 adults with luggage) took a Prius taxi from Hobart air port and it didn't feel under powered at all. The taxi owner/driver liked it more than any other car he owned. Economical and durable, at 350,000km still going strong.

    You wren't driving it, I take it. I did drive a Prius fully loaded and it feels.

    And I have seen in Perth Prius taxis with 650k km + on the clock, still going strong. Reliability is not an issue (it's a Toyota, after all). And taxi drivers do love them. The 650k km car was still on its first battery (and now they come with 7 years factory warranty so batteries are no longer a concern even for taxi work). The hybrid Camrys come second, a little bit more passenger room, but not as much luggage room, surprisingly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I think the Prius is an excellent vehicle, but fully electric it ain't. Large energy cost to build them and years for payback in that department - good if you really knock up the kilometres but not for low km use like we have. I totally agree that they are much better than Foulcans as taxis, too. I'll vouch for the 350,000 km trouble-free life, from chats with Brisbane taxis in the last few years. Very impressive.

    For our purposes, an electric car with a 200-400 km range (e.g. Renault Zoe) would do 98% of our journeys perfectly adequately. Think Perth to Margaret River, for example, as well as city trips (which can be up to 200 km in Perth). But we have Scenics for other reasons of practicability. You can get them secondhand for well under $10,000. An electric Kango with two rows of seats, or an electric Scenic, would be wonderful.

    The proportion of Australians doing interstate or intercity driving is, on most days I'd guess, rather less than 10% of the population, maybe only 1-2%. I reckon that if more types of electric car were available and secondhand ones were starting to appear, with some form of battery insurance and a way of assessing the remaining life in that battery system, I'd be in the market. But no way are we going to spend $30,000 to $40,000 on a new car of the wrong size/configuration for our needs so that we have an electric one, much as I agree they are what we should be doing.

    We visited Norway earlier this year - dramatic numbers of electric cars there, at least in Oslo. They're cashed up of course but I think they are approaching the concept from the positive side.

    So, perhaps this is an area for Gov't incentives and leadership. Oh, bugger. No chance........ Coal-fired cars anyone? A Stanley steamer with a pulverised lignite fuel feed? And a bucket so you can top up the water from the nearest dam?
    European countries have unforgiving emission legislation but even so, Norway stands out. They are not cashed up but the government has passed legislation aimed at obliterating petrol cars. Tax is criminal - tied to engine capacity (have you ever seen a Celica with a 1l engine?) so people have no reason to buy petrol cars. Hence they are the largest market for electric cars. This is the advantage of a country with a small highly educated population. Political will is easy to coalesce around worthy goals.

    I agree they are a positive nation, but that is educated (and supported by governments). They also didn't change their mind when they found oil in the North sea, and instead of squandering their fortune, they set about building a wealth that was dedicated to research into moving away form petrol, a long term goal vision approach to managing the country that does not exist in Australia where we have no idea what we're going to do next week. The result is they are leaders and we are followers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I know of an elderly gentleman who has a Tesla and he does Sydney to Melbourne over two days, charging the Tesla from the motel electricity. John
    Is his first name Bill, and his surname Buckle?
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Is his first name Bill, and his surname Buckle?
    Is he still alive? Good grief.

    Re the Prius design too, my only complaint with limited experience in taxis and a private one in San Francisco was poor suspension design in the compliance area by the excellent standards of the ride of older French cars. Even our Scenics, which aren't that good by earlier standards of French cars, seem a lot better than my Prius experience.

    Totally agree re Norway, Schlitz. Cashed up? Well Norway is a fairly affluent place so that was my short term impression, but I agree with your description of ALL the rest, that is for sure.
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    More than 50% of Australian households have 2 or more vehicles. I would hazard a guess almost, if not all, AFers share their 1/4 acre with at least 2 horseless carriages.

    For the occasions you need to travel the Nullabor you can always drive the trusty R12, 504, or DS.

    Keep the Tesla as your town car, you know, for the short trips of a mere 300-400 kms...
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Is he still alive? Good grief.

    Re the Prius design too, my only complaint with limited experience in taxis and a private one in San Francisco was poor suspension design in the compliance area by the excellent standards of the ride of older French cars. Even our Scenics, which aren't that good by earlier standards of French cars, seem a lot better than my Prius experience.

    Totally agree re Norway, Schlitz. Cashed up? Well Norway is a fairly affluent place so that was my short term impression, but I agree with your description of ALL the rest, that is for sure.
    Affluent is a relative term. Some might say the US is a fairly affluent place, some might say Japan is is a fairly affluent place. See the difference?


    Norwegians are a very determined and motivated stock (and so are other nordics and the japanese from my experience). What can you say about the americans in the same perspective? Or about us?

    Not the same, eh?

    Their oil company is state owned (in Australia there is no state owned resource company, have you seen the gas shortage problems?) and their business brief is to benefit the norwegian nation, not foreign interests. We have gold, diamonds, gas, uranium, copper, iron and whatever else you please to cover the entire world several times over, yet some of us have nothing to eat and such poor education they have problems with spelling. Have you seen any homeless starving norwegians? They have free education, health care, dental, anything you want, the basics of life are offered to everybody equally (the modern philosophy actually says "equitably" - an ideal present in our country only in academic circles) without question as a matter of self respect and pride for the nation, not as a furphy to pull out of the back pocket when it comes to bamboozle the masses. And this is a common thread through the societies I mentioned.

    I have a lot of uni colleagues who went to Norway to work for Statoil. I have a lot of of uni colleagues who went to work for british and north american oil companies. The stories they tell are vastly different. My friends themselves have changed and have become what the company and society culture made of them. That is where the difference comes from. North americans hate governments for good reason. Nordics love their governments for good reason. Everybody has the government they deserve.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 26th October 2017 at 10:21 PM.
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    I would tend to call Norway "cashed up". Their sovereign wealth fund currently stands at around 1 trillion dollars.
    Norway's sovereign wealth fund is now worth $1,000,000,000,000 - Sep. 19, 2017

    Compared to Australia's 156 billion, for 4 times the population.
    Future Fund | Home

    Or our Super funds totalled up at about 2.2 trillion, again for 4 times the population.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supera...n_in_Australia

    I had read that their tax breaks (now rolled back due to overwhelming popularity) on electric vehicles such as Tesla made the Tesla cheaper to purchase than a VW golf.
    Last edited by speaksgeek; 23rd October 2017 at 03:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I have a lot of uni colleagues who went to Norway to work for Statoil. I have a lot of of uni colleagues who went to work for british and north american oil companies.
    We must catch up sometime. I had uni colleagues who went to Norway too! From Adelaide, early 70s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by speaksgeek View Post
    I would tend to call Norway "cashed up". Their sovereign wealth fund currently stands at around 1 trillion dollars.
    Norway's sovereign wealth fund is now worth $1,000,000,000,000 - Sep. 19, 2017

    Compared to Australia's 156 billion, for 4 times the population.
    Future Fund | Home

    Or our Super funds totalled up at about 2.2 trillion, again for 4 times the population.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supera...n_in_Australia

    I had read that their tax breaks (now rolled back due to overwhelming popularity) on electric vehicles such as Tesla made the Tesla cheaper to purchase than a VW golf.
    Ah, yes, that is true.

    The difference is (as a friend, postdoc from Adelaide Uni pointed out after having moved to Canada where his research projects were awarded a research budget equal to our entire Geology department's - that is about 4 million $ give or take) in the priorities. Catch the drift?

    We could have had more than that many times over. We just didn't want to. It was too important to make the rich richer and the poor poorer (otherwise it would have hurt the feelings of the rich and we can't have that) until the entire nation is barely scraping by. If we don't have enough, it is our own fault, not somebody else's and it is in our power to change things. Think about that when you vote.

    I have mentioned the price of Teslas in Scandinavia here many times and showed they have more Tesla taxis (plus many other electric and hybrids that never made it on our market and I didn't even know existed) than anywhere else. From what I have seen during the year I spent working there, I would say they are dead serious about giving up oil altogether in the near future. And all the problems that come with it.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 23rd October 2017 at 06:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exfrogger View Post
    More than 50% of Australian households have 2 or more vehicles. I would hazard a guess almost, if not all, AFers share their 1/4 acre with at least 2 horseless carriages.

    For the occasions you need to travel the Nullabor you can always drive the trusty R12, 504, or DS.

    Keep the Tesla as your town car, you know, for the short trips of a mere 300-400 kms...

    Or imagine how much would it really cost to have some FREE charging stations along the nullarbor powered by solar panels? Too far to think for us, eh?

    Or are we worried the poor petrol station owners along the nullarbor wouldn't be able to make a living?
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Or imagine how much would it really cost to have some FREE charging stations along the nullarbor powered by solar panels? Too far to think for us, eh?

    Or are we worried the poor petrol station owners along the nullarbor wouldn't be able to make a living?
    I dream of the day where Australia has service stations along major highways that rival the italian, spanish, portuguese, and french ones I've been to. With the quality of food you get, they could seriously up the turnover and probably pay for a large solar array and batteries to hand out free electricity with any meal.
    206 GTi 180 - Cat Cams, Remapped Group N ECU, AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg fixed camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, Yokohama A050, PeugeotSport Baffled Sump, Powerflex Engine Mounts & Bushings, Setrab Oil cooler, Quaife diff, Velo seats.

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    Winton - 1:45.6
    Phillip Island - 1:58.4
    NŁrburgring - 10:23.ish (Fiesta ST)

    Previously, 2x 504 Wagon, 505 Wagon, 505 STi, 405.

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    Quote Originally Posted by speaksgeek View Post
    I dream of the day where Australia has service stations along major highways that rival the italian, spanish, portuguese, and french ones I've been to. With the quality of food you get, they could seriously up the turnover and probably pay for a large solar array and batteries to hand out free electricity with any meal.
    My point was that with current off the shelf technology, we could have those stations tomorrow and there would be no cost to have them if we factor in how much it would reduce emissions plus long term benefits in changing public perceptions, attitudes and motoring habits. I expect one of the more progressive state governments on the eastern coast will have such stations built at some point. Yes, you're not going to power road trains with that, but then again, did anyone try that?
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 23rd October 2017 at 07:04 PM.
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    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    I wouldn't worry about service stations. They will provide whatever roadside service transportation requires as it changes.

    One of my great grandfathers had a large property devoted to fodder and had a setup to prepare the stuff for market on a fairly large scale. a couple af large waggons distributed it. Were he alive today we'd say he runs a country fuel depot. People adapt.

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