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  1. #276
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    Default Victorian Fuel pricing trends Versus Queensland or other states.

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    Look at the daily electricity generation statistics to see the weakness of power generation in Australia and the failure of the renewables sector to provide base load power. Even if the massive infrastructure needed for transport electrification was built without dramatic increases in reliable power generation it would be pointless. South Australia has abandoned its renewables obsession and built a new gas fired plant but even so had its diesel generators at Torrens Island fired up yesterday and could not possibly power road transport. The large investment in wind power in Victoria has failed and that state only keeps the lights on by paying industry to shut down on hot days. The power generation sector simply cannot cope with road and rail electrification.
    I don't have time to come back to this but there are websites showing real time electricity generation and use statistics for every state and wind power generation statistics.
    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...e_iOSApp_Other

    Also, Victoriaís shortfalls have been from old unreliable coal failing. Itís renewables keeping the lights on...

    Iíve already posted the link to AEMO who say the EV demand can be accommodated.


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    Icon13 Blatant Hard left Political propaganda as is, the Guardian!

    Originally Posted by Haakon
    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...e_iOSApp_Other

    Also, Victoriaís shortfalls have been from old unreliable coal failing. Itís renewables keeping the lights on...

    Iíve already posted the link to AEMO who say the EV demand can be accommodated.


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    Why would you post a blatant piece of political propaganda piece from that great (some say communist?) (Progressive hard left Socialist?) The Guardian that is pushing agenda's on Global Warming and also guilt tripping developed nations to de-industrialize their economies, and pay some form of reparations so the UN will be the one sole World Government.

    Is this an intent to (a) move a motorists fuel interest thread to the toadpond?
    (b) have it shut down?

    Sorry you electric vehicle hyperventilation thread, but motorists are entitled to question fuel prices and will occasionally stray into mentions of climate, but most of us that do follow the science and recognise the depth and breadth of the Climate Change issue and why political pressure groups like the guardian want certain things to certain ends do try and abide by keeping out/resisting using these discussions as requested by the moderators.

    I certainly know how hard it is, due to a lifelong interest in the subject of weather and its effect on Australians.

    But political chicanery and blatant propaganda is another thing.

    If you need to start your own thread and promote such issues that have been banned - do so, but I guess that is a choice that would be short lived.

    Back to Fuel pricing at the pump issues, as it concerns motorists there is politics there in that issue alone, but please try to keep it close to the subject. Motorists pay a price for fuel use, not to mention excise and GST. We expect competitive pricing, no more no less, at the pump.

    Thank you

    Ken

    Ken

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    If we go to fact not propaganda and look at real time generation statistics https://www.energymatters.com.au/ene...ty-statistics/ we find that Victoria, NSW and Queensland rely on coal for most of their power. Wind generation varies from 0% to 80% of plated capacity and averages around 25% of capacity and there are times the windfarms are drawing power from the grid to keep the mills turning. SA has abandoned its reliance on wind because they were really relying on Victorian coal for base load power and has a new gas fired plant at Torrens Island. Even so they fired the banks of diesel generators at Torrens Island last week. Tasmania is the only state that uses mostly renewable energy thanks to a wet year in that state and full hydro dams. Victoria has been short of base load power since Hazelwood closed. The existing coal fired generators are old and prone to failure but so was the new gas fired plant at Mortlake that badly damaged a generator. The state has invested big in windfarms but they have been disappointing in calmer times of the year and often contribute little. The state relies heavily on coal for its base load power but can't keep up with peak demands and pays industries to close during periods of high demand. Victoria is building a new small gas generator in Dandenong and can draw on Snowy hydro and does heavily at peak times but capacity is limited. Power is transferred between the eastern states via interconnectors so power demand can be evened out. They are vulnerable to disruption by fire. Queensland and NSW have large coal based generating capacity. Politicians rely on spin but we can look at facts.
    EV demands cannot be accommodated with present power generating capacity unless you shut down more industry. Which would make sense to people who think wealth creation is government writing cheques.
    Last edited by Russell Hall; 24th December 2019 at 11:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    If we go to fact not propaganda and look at real time generation statistics https://www.energymatters.com.au/ene...ty-statistics/ we find that Victoria, NSW and Queensland rely on coal for most of their power. Wind generation varies from 0% to 80% of plated capacity and averages around 25% of capacity and there are times the windfarms are drawing power from the grid to keep the mills turning. SA has abandoned its reliance on wind because they were really relying on Victorian coal for base load power and has a new gas fired plant at Torrens Island. Even so they fired the banks of diesel generators at Torrens Island last week. Tasmania is the only state that uses mostly renewable energy thanks to a wet year in that state and full hydro dams. Victoria has been short of base load power since Hazelwood closed. The existing coal fired generators are old and prone to failure but so was the new gas fired plant at Mortlake that badly damaged a generator. The state has invested big in windfarms but they have been disappointing in calmer times of the year and often contribute little. The state relies heavily on coal for its base load power but can't keep up with peak demands and pays industries to close during periods of high demand. Victoria is building a new small gas generator in Dandenong and can draw on Snowy hydro and does heavily at peak times but capacity is limited. Power is transferred between the eastern states via interconnectors so power demand can be evened out. They are vulnerable to disruption by fire. Queensland and NSW have large coal based generating capacity. Politicians rely on spin but we can look at facts.
    EV demands cannot be accommodated with present power generating capacity unless you shut down more industry. Which would make sense to people who think wealth creation is government writing cheques.
    All of which has nothing to do with the price of fish, or petrol........the moderators must be on holiday.......
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    It is a reply to an earlier assertion that the grid could support EV's. That is consistent with the topic of fuel for motor vehicles. Your moral outrage is selective.

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    It's only natural that Queenslanders pay more for fuel because we have an extra hour of sunlight to our southern cousins, therefor more driving time, therefor more fuel costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    It's only natural that Queenslanders pay more for fuel because we have an extra hour of sunlight to our southern cousins, therefor more driving time, therefor more fuel costs.
    I'm glad you are happy, probably makes up for years back when you guys had far cheaper fuel for some obscure reason. I suppose what goes around comes around. I do appreciate some competition rather than just the appearance of competition. I always wondered why many found it hard to understand how some motorists went along with that so called discount cycle. The industry run price cycle so blatantly manipulated to provide an opportunity to push up to a higher desired profit level on average.

    Sell it high in one place and briefly lower elsewhere, but only above their own controlled and computer checked volume. My analogy of the rim of a spinning top dipping on one side and higher on the other all the while spinning a story that it is " Fierce motorist competition" driving the process. what rubbish.

    Anyway the only thing that motorist's can do is gripe when it is high and love it when the price is low and also look for the trickery in between, mostly, by quoting in the media 91 Ron ULP prices that hardly anyone uses, while extending the price gap between grades of fuel, the gap that started off as 5 cents extra, but now it is whatever they can get away with at the pump, until motorists start complaining to the newpapers which is often futile anyway as journalists rarely understand the rip off tricks and just print up 91 ULP prices as if that is what all motorists use.

    You have to be alert as high profit is the objective, not really some service to motorists, and why they want to be able to buy in fuel at the lowest price, then when they have that in their tank claim that they need to sell at a much higher profit margin because the next lot to replace that lot sold will cost more, (based on some model they have created) some time in the future!

    Some plan! and very creative accounting and I am sure someone will chime in to educate us on that need.

    Have a very nice Christmas and please stay safe on the roads. and watch the state of the roads, some need a bit of attention and of course governments are well paid to fix that.

    Regards
    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    It is a reply to an earlier assertion that the grid could support EV's. That is consistent with the topic of fuel for motor vehicles. Your moral outrage is selective.
    It may well be, and so is that of most others. EV fuel pricing is of no importance whatsoever to those (The vast majority) with I/C powered vehicles and is basically only a discussion paper for the politically inclined in this forum to make incredible and generally unverifiable statements. The people that own the grid are in it to make money so when all is considered, including the position of the suppliers of oil based fuels who can easily reduce their prices, the grid will likely expand to supply the demand from EV's, the take-up will be slow enough to avoid catastrophe. I could ask you what price you personally are paying to fill up your EV but I guess you are going to be really secretive about it.......
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    Having had a look at the UK situation, where they have had serious smog, and they have already imposed punitive tax pricing added to Diesel sales at the pump, that has only increased concerns that basic motorists that were encouraged to buy Diesels by previous governments that they have been robbed, that disquiet has turned anger towards government rather than the oil companies.

    Oil companies can move to other energy monopolies but, consider they will be supplying fuel and excise for a long time due to the resistance to any mandated changeover directive. If that could be achieved at minimal cost to both the home motorist, and the commercial goods carrying fleet and in that I would include the so called white Van trade.

    Renault has a pretty strong representation in that type of commercial vehicle you see all around Britain, but from what I was told no interest at all in EV as an alternative (at this stage). There is plenty of hype and lots of EV spin and some communities are mandating higher taxes on certain types of ICE vehicles, yet the resistance seems resolute in the face of outright bans. Prices of delivery seem to be the immediate result to absorb costs.

    So in a place that does have smog problems, with an industrial mix of actual pollutants other than from motor vehicles, I can conclude that Australia and Australian motorists will have similar monetary resistance.

    Probably need a different marketing approach with EV's paying their share of roads maintenance via excise tax and also a built in tax (GST plus excise ) on their fuel use.

    Combined with schemes to make ev's much cheaper to buy, perhaps second hand after turnover from Government Departments and councils (Quick depreciation and proof of longevity and reliability) i.e bridging the gap of cost and reducing resentment. I think I would be keen to try that out at minimal cost for use in urban areas, but retain an ICE vehicle for long distance travel until it becomes clear that the choice has no inherent disadvantage or deficiency in family use.

    To me that is the issue, free choice and equal taxing, perhaps based on annual use of the road systems. i.e. a very level and fair playing field and of course above all collection of data for analysis and verification of the voluntary rate of change and the ability of the supply power industry to cope with change.

    Equal taxing, equal opportunity no pressure and good supply chain as well as longevity of the product will be accommodating to all needs and there will be a genuine competing product in the marketplace and that should put a downward pressure on both electricity and conventional fuel sales as motorists will take up long term opportunities as they see their immediate need met.

    Well just a different method without hype and creating better consumer competition. win, win, for all.

    Ken
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 24th December 2019 at 10:32 PM.

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    Default Victorian Fuel pricing trends Versus Queensland or other states.

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    If we go to fact not propaganda and look at real time generation statistics https://www.energymatters.com.au/ene...ty-statistics/ we find that Victoria, NSW and Queensland rely on coal for most of their power. Wind generation varies from 0% to 80% of plated capacity and averages around 25% of capacity and there are times the windfarms are drawing power from the grid to keep the mills turning. SA has abandoned its reliance on wind because they were really relying on Victorian coal for base load power and has a new gas fired plant at Torrens Island. Even so they fired the banks of diesel generators at Torrens Island last week. Tasmania is the only state that uses mostly renewable energy thanks to a wet year in that state and full hydro dams. Victoria has been short of base load power since Hazelwood closed. The existing coal fired generators are old and prone to failure but so was the new gas fired plant at Mortlake that badly damaged a generator. The state has invested big in windfarms but they have been disappointing in calmer times of the year and often contribute little. The state relies heavily on coal for its base load power but can't keep up with peak demands and pays industries to close during periods of high demand. Victoria is building a new small gas generator in Dandenong and can draw on Snowy hydro and does heavily at peak times but capacity is limited. Power is transferred between the eastern states via interconnectors so power demand can be evened out. They are vulnerable to disruption by fire. Queensland and NSW have large coal based generating capacity. Politicians rely on spin but we can look at facts.
    EV demands cannot be accommodated with present power generating capacity unless you shut down more industry. Which would make sense to people who think wealth creation is government writing cheques.
    You consider the AEMO propaganda....? Iíve heard it called many things, but thatís a new one!

    Even so, when it comes to what the grid can do and what it can be made to do with the right investment Iíll go with their assessment over yours


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    No, I consider your contribution propaganda. What you wrote is a word for word repeat of a simply untrue propaganda line by a certain leftist premier trying to cover his run down of Victorian power generation. The facts of Victorian power generation are on display for all to see and it is renewables that have failed to generate when needed not the old coal generators that provide this state with its base load power and keep the lights on. I have given a link to view real time power generation sources. People can make up their own minds. I note that finally investments are being made in new gas generators in Victoria and Queensland and SA has abandoned the fiction it was relying on renewables. I'll stay with demonstrable fact not bald propaganda assertions.

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    Default Victorian Fuel pricing trends Versus Queensland or other states.

    Well, believe what you like. Like the premier, I take my advice from AEMO and industry experts. The government is not responsible for running down the generators - theyíre privately owned (sold by a rightest premier ).

    The investment community doesnít want a bar of them because decarbonisation is a priority and no one will seriously invest in coal power in Australia.


    Ps - I tend to link Guardian articles because they are reliably the most accurate and balanced when it comes to reporting on the energy sector in general. This is nothing to do with my politics, itís just my observations of their reporting against what I know professionally in my field of work and what I observe in industry analysis from the likes of Bloomberg New Energy Finance and of course AEMO. Anything in a Murdoch publication is far more likely to be heavily biased and misleading. The Guardian is by no means perfect and they do tend to get a bit carried away, but on the whole they are most balanced in this field anyway.

    Again, thatís not my politics - thatís just flat out facts. I can provide a basis for what I say that you can check if youíre interested and allow you to refute. Always happy to do so - I tend to use citations from official figures wherever possible and never from conspiracy blogs...

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    Last edited by Haakon; 25th December 2019 at 08:14 PM.
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    Default Victorian Fuel pricing trends Versus Queensland or other states.

    Anyhoo. Back on topic. I still reckon itís wasted effort stressing about fuel prices or wondering what drives the incremental changes people seem hung up on.

    Itís all things you have no control over. So if youíre sailing so close to the wind that a few cents is a big deal, you have bigger problems and should be focusing on those!

    I genuinely couldnít quote fuel prices if I had a gun to my head - all I know is that 98 is a waste of money and 95 is cheaper for the same performance and the BP one tends to be convenient. Fill up, wave my phone at the pay machine and move on. I think it might be something like 160 something cents a litre? Dunno. $70-90 a tank depending on the day or how empty it is... Whatever. Every time I go and inhale fumes I get impatient for those first Model 3s to start coming off leases!! But still happy with the Alfa Giulietta - it did Canberra to Castlemaine via Bendigo with a quarter of a tank left. That seems decent for a car as quick as it is.


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    The facts of power generation in Australia speak for themselves despite the sophistry of the amusingly woke Guardian and the quaint ignorance of public servants of how the real economy operates. Without more investment in base load power (coal or gas) Australia could not power electrification of the transport network. Queensland and NSW have massive coal generating capacity that the East Coast grid relies on but little surplus. Victoria and South Australia barely keep up with summer demand and despite de-industrialization both states live with the threat of power failures. If Victoria loses another coal generator the power system in both states will collapse. Wind power is fine on the days the wind blows but average is only around 25% of capacity and all too often virtually nothing for days on end. So the remaining old Victorian brown coal generators are pumping out 4700MW day and night while the expensive new wind farms might be pumping out 30MW. The result is Victoria pays factories not to operate on hot days and some SA plants close on high demand days. Little wonder new factory investment prefers NSW. Snowy Hydro can be called on for up to 2000MW on high demand days by buying NSW share but that can't be maintained. So my point stands and is proven by the facts of East Coast power output despite the Guardian and misquotes from documents - electrification is not practical without massive power generation investment.

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    Icon13 Sad you keep flounting the rules you helped impose!

    Originally Posted by Haakon
    Well, believe what you like. Like the premier, I take my advice from AEMO and industry experts. The government is not responsible for running down the generators - theyíre privately owned (sold by a rightest premier ).

    The investment community doesnít want a bar of them because decarbonisation is a priority and no one will seriously invest in coal power in Australia.


    Ps - I tend to link Guardian articles because they are reliably the most accurate and balanced when it comes to reporting on the energy sector in general. This is nothing to do with my politics, itís just my observations of their reporting against what I know professionally in my field of work and what I observe in industry analysis from the likes of Bloomberg New Energy Finance and of course AEMO. Anything in a Murdoch publication is far more likely to be heavily biased and misleading. The Guardian is by no means perfect and they do tend to get a bit carried away, but on the whole they are most balanced in this field anyway.

    Again, thatís not my politics - thatís just flat out facts. I can provide a basis for what I say that you can check if youíre interested and allow you to refute. Always happy to do so - I tend to use citations from official figures wherever possible and never from conspiracy blogs...

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    Quite strange, we get warned to keep away from Climate Change posts, but your insistence to putting up links to the Gaurdian, when they are a blatant first order pusher of Manmade Climate Change - even your links show their partisan politics and Climate Change unbalanced position, seem much like yours, time you stopped pushing their propaganda so your later smear of "Conspiracy blogs means anyone opposing your political position But in YOUR OPINION or belief you prefer [/QUOTE] Guardian articles because they are reliably the most accurate and balanced [/QUOTE] your own link shows the bias and agenda.

    As the climate crisis escalates...
    Ö the Guardian will not stay quiet. This is our pledge: we will continue to give global heating, wildlife extinction and pollution the urgent attention and prominence they demand. The Guardian recognises the climate emergency as the defining issue of our times.
    We chose a different approach: to keep Guardian journalism open for all. We don't have a paywall because we believe everyone deserves access to factual information, regardless of where they live or what they can afford to pay.
    Our editorial independence means we are free to investigate and challenge inaction by those in power. We will inform our readers about threats to the environment based on scientific facts, not driven by commercial or political interests. And we have made several important changes to our style guide to ensure the language we use accurately reflects the environmental catastrophe.
    The Guardian believes that the problems we face on the climate crisis are systemic and that fundamental societal change is needed. We will keep reporting on the efforts of individuals and communities around the world who are fearlessly taking a stand for future generations and the preservation of human life on earth. We want their stories to inspire hope. We will also report back on our own progress as an organisation, as we take important steps to address our impact on the environment.
    We hope you will consider supporting us today. We need your support to keep delivering quality journalism thatís open and independent. Every reader contribution, however big or small, is so valuable. Support The Guardian from as little as $1 Ė and it only takes a minute. Thank you.
    A complete propaganda biased organisation socialist to the core and trying to push a one sided line. Having this junk socialist rag give prominence to push Climate related scares and anything else they can dredge up to politically push their agenda that has little to do with looking after the cars we choose to drive or the fuel we choose to use.

    Years back I would counter some of the propaganda by exposing the links that certain carefully chosen so called journalists that had gravitated to the Gruniad and pushing opinions and belief as fact, and in support of a certain cabal of scientists whose true agenda was exposed in the UK Climategate scandal.

    But your lot here disliked such effective rebuttal by actual scientists. you grizzled and whinged to get opposing facts, science, and actual data that completely rebuts the Guardian propaganda, banned as a topic. Didn't matter how experienced or expert in their profession as scientists they were smeared as deniers, why, because they had the expertise and standing to challenge the beliefs that the guardian pushes for their own political reason.

    Worse still you know that and the smears go on.

    The moderators have asked and the site administration asks that posters refrain from the subject of Climate Change as it might offend you???? well let us abide by the rules and not continually post up provocative propaganda supporting your agenda and beliefs on climate change.

    This is a topic solely about pricing observed at the pump, with the objective of securing competitive fuel pricing for motorists for the fuel that they choose to use. If you want to push propaganda about EV eventual penetration of the market in your own specific thread, please do so rather than intruding bias and argument into this tread. Or is that your true agenda, to deny motorists a platform to aggregate buyer information in line with the topic, and this diversion just that, the thin edge of the wedge to deny motorists who choose to use conventional fuel in our Internal combustion engine motor cars.

    So lets get out of this fake confected bid to pressure change outside the normal consumer choice to do so.

    No need for that behaviour in the face of so many warnings and the removal of popular threads. Motorists need to be able to discuss these things in a bid to retain competitive pricing.

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    The facts of power generation in Australia speak for themselves despite the sophistry of the amusingly woke Guardian and the quaint ignorance of public servants of how the real economy operates. Without more investment in base load power (coal or gas) Australia could not power electrification of the transport network. Queensland and NSW have massive coal generating capacity that the East Coast grid relies on but little surplus. Victoria and South Australia barely keep up with summer demand and despite de-industrialization both states live with the threat of power failures. If Victoria loses another coal generator the power system in both states will collapse. Wind power is fine on the days the wind blows but average is only around 25% of capacity and all too often virtually nothing for days on end. So the remaining old Victorian brown coal generators are pumping out 4700MW day and night while the expensive new wind farms might be pumping out 30MW. The result is Victoria pays factories not to operate on hot days and some SA plants close on high demand days. Little wonder new factory investment prefers NSW. Snowy Hydro can be called on for up to 2000MW on high demand days by buying NSW share but that can't be maintained. So my point stands and is proven by the facts of East Coast power output despite the Guardian and misquotes from documents - electrification is not practical without massive power generation investment.
    Sorry Russel, your information is quite inaccurate (and more to the point disingenuous and misleading) and your understanding of how the grid works (and in particular the development of the last 5 or so years) is very much out of date. I am happy to direct you to some resources if you'd like to further your understanding of the system and the situation these days. I fear you may have fallen foul of shock jock news sources and/or Murdoch media...

    Anyhoo, back on topic. Electrification of transport is still in the long term the best bet for shoring up energy security in Australia. It won't be cheap (although perhaps cheaper than running out of liquid fuels without being prepared ) or quickly achieved, but its possible and worth pursuing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Quite strange, we get warned to keep away from Climate Change posts, but your insistence to putting up links to the Gaurdian, when they are a blatant first order pusher of Manmade Climate Change - even your links show their partisan politics and Climate Change unbalanced position, seem much like yours, time you stopped pushing their propaganda so your later smear of "Conspiracy blogs means anyone opposing your political position But in YOUR OPINION or belief you prefer
    Guardian articles because they are reliably the most accurate and balanced [/QUOTE] your own link shows the bias and agenda.



    A complete propaganda biased organisation socialist to the core and trying to push a one sided line. Having this junk socialist rag give prominence to push Climate related scares and anything else they can dredge up to politically push their agenda that has little to do with looking after the cars we choose to drive or the fuel we choose to use.

    Years back I would counter some of the propaganda by exposing the links that certain carefully chosen so called journalists that had gravitated to the Gruniad and pushing opinions and belief as fact, and in support of a certain cabal of scientists whose true agenda was exposed in the UK Climategate scandal.

    But your lot here disliked such effective rebuttal by actual scientists. you grizzled and whinged to get opposing facts, science, and actual data that completely rebuts the Guardian propaganda, banned as a topic. Didn't matter how experienced or expert in their profession as scientists they were smeared as deniers, why, because they had the expertise and standing to challenge the beliefs that the guardian pushes for their own political reason.

    Worse still you know that and the smears go on.

    The moderators have asked and the site administration asks that posters refrain from the subject of Climate Change as it might offend you???? well let us abide by the rules and not continually post up provocative propaganda supporting your agenda and beliefs on climate change.

    This is a topic solely about pricing observed at the pump, with the objective of securing competitive fuel pricing for motorists for the fuel that they choose to use. If you want to push propaganda about EV eventual penetration of the market in your own specific thread, please do so rather than intruding bias and argument into this tread. Or is that your true agenda, to deny motorists a platform to aggregate buyer information in line with the topic, and this diversion just that, the thin edge of the wedge to deny motorists who choose to use conventional fuel in our Internal combustion engine motor cars.

    So lets get out of this fake confected bid to pressure change outside the normal consumer choice to do so.

    No need for that behaviour in the face of so many warnings and the removal of popular threads. Motorists need to be able to discuss these things in a bid to retain competitive pricing.

    Ken[/QUOTE]

    Remind me again why you don't get banned for all this silliness? Perhaps keep the extremist nonsense to the watts app message boards.
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    "Froggy Chat!

    Please remember, this is a French car forum."

    This is the froggy chat section, not a political/conspiracy theories discussion forum. It is time the moderators shut this mindless tit-for-tat thread down. If you were a non-suspecting web-surfing French car lover and ended up on this forum (highly recommended) and would trip over this particular thread (shock-horror), you'd wonder if these AussieFroggers are all a bunch of highly-opinionated, foaming-at-the-mouth-types, going-round-in-circles, raving about inane stuff. Remember that these threads are forever on-line.
    The main contributors to this out of control thread should engage in some self-reflection in my opinion, and possibly donate some of their time, otherwise spent raving over their keyboard, volunteering their time within their real community, not a virtual make-belief community. You'll find there are many real needs out in the real world, where the perceived too high petrol prices, the perceived bias of newspapers or the imagined conspiracy to sabotage a change to EV are meaningless. You'll soon find that having a positive attitude to the world is what can make a difference in other peoples lives, while a highly-critical attitude has the opposite affect, making you an unhappy person. You see, if you view the glass as half full, you'll find more to smile about in life. You should try it some time.... Cheers, Erik.
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  20. #295
    1000+ Posts dmccurtayne's Avatar
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    4008
    Gone but not forgotten C5 x7 3008 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
    Fix it right the first time
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    Garage C5 X7 4008
    Gone but not forgotten 3008 206 GTI 180 306 XR SED 405 MI16 x2 xzara VTS 406 SV 206 XT Berlingo 2011 (best car ever) 306 HDI 307 XSE HDI touring
    Fix it right the first time

  21. #296
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    I am at a loss arguing with someone who disregards the hourly reports of power generation (available online) because it doesn't fit his view. This is not secret, anyone can access it. I understand perfectly well how the grid works alongside those who still require reliable power for their living. An ideologue is one who refuses to allow facts to modify his established views and you are in that category. Tomatoes for all, thank you for your suggestion about volunteering, because you are anonymous I must have missed your presence alongside me on the fireline, perhaps we met when you were getting your medal for service to the community during a national emergency? Discussion in a virtual community does not preclude life in the real community. You have no idea how the complex structure of high level volunteering works. An easy solution - visit a Polyanna forum.
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  22. #297
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    A selection of quotes for our current debaters to consider:

    "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."

    "It is not best that we should all think alike; it is a difference of opinion that makes horse races."

    "The older we grow the greater becomes our wonder at how much ignorance one can contain without bursting one's clothes."

    "In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."

    Courtesy of Samuel Langhorne Clemens......
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    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  23. #298
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    Interesting how some can pollute threads, about the subject of motorists at least trying to get the best value fuel to keep their vehicles running and ensure that other fellow motorists whose jobs depend on driving between jobs sometimes from one side of a large metro area to another job, no travelling time and these days not a lot of money earned as you only get paid for the time on the job. This was how I came to be interested about the effect of fuel prices on carers employed to look after elderly or disabled people in their homes, when fuel prices go up like they have, those carers find it extremely hard to make any money for their own families.

    It is really no joke, though some here who are well off, perhaps opulent don't seem to think about others that aren't, throw things around, like accusing other people that do care as, having lost their moral compass? I guess I could be like that too, as I could shut my eyes and ears to people that are doing it hard, and enjoy the luxury of not worrying or raising issues. , I am all right jack ,attitude or my work pays for my fuel card, so who cares. Sorry I can't do that, as I do care and while I support charities and the dedicated volunteers in our communities I think a few others moral compasses are skewed.

    While talking to the UK family that are presently visiting a friend here in Melbourne, they have that compassion and also do that kind of support in the UK carer network. And yes, great need and not enough carers so a lot rests on volunteers mindful of my earlier post where I wondered why there wasn't a bigger showing of the high value Tesla's on UK roads, he said the problem is they do not suit the needs and circumstances of ordinary working people, their are the nobs and showy types who can well afford a stable of cars to pick from and when it suits them drive a pure EV, but the majority can neither afford and some resent, the pressures and the unequal taxing burden on their lives. He did say that the compromise is many are replacing as they can their main vehicle with a Hybrid and that is where the main uptake is in Great Britain. He hopes that once Brexit is out of the way the new government will work on the family cost and share the taxing equitably.

    Anyway that is probably too political when the whole issue here is trying to get a better deal for motorists with choice rather than some coercion and penalty divide between class or place in the community.

    I not that in the Melboure herald Sun there was an article today 03/01/2020 page 11, headed $20K tipped in tank - The Royal Automobile Club of Victoria did an analysis of the average fuel cost over the last decade.
    By Karen Collier - Petrol costs have drained almost $20,000 from the pockets of the average Victorian motorist over a decade according to analysis. The price to fill our tanks over that time is equivalent to buying a smallnew car. The RACV calkculated that in the past years alone, a driver travelling average distances shelled out $2,039 at the bowser. Over the last 10 years the unleaded fuel amounted to $19,413 the state's peak motoring body found. Its analysis revealed motorists have been on a decade- long price rollercoaster. RACV spokes man Brodie Bott said there was no sign of an upward trend stopping "Fuel prices will continue to hurt Victorian hip pockets" Mr Bott said. The RACV tracked the average annual unleaded price for each years from 2010 -19, it found that 2014 was the most expensive, at 144.4 cents a litre, the cheapest was 2016, at 116 cents a litre Petrol prices were affected by factors including global oil and refined petrol costs and the Australian -US dollar exchange rate, local fuel price cycles and profit margins set by retailers ...Metropolitan prices have a volatile cycle that sees prices spike to a peak before falling steadily , then again sharply increasing.. Prices do not fluctuate as wildly in rural and regional areas
    My comment is that I have not yet been able to examine the report closely but I will, it is sad that it was not done over the whole range of fuel pricing as there has been obvious margin creep between the most popular grades as we have shown here and we know that unleaded ULP 91 is not the most popular fuel recommended for use in most motorcars. they have taken the passive idea that motorists should shop around and confine their fuel buying to the lowest point of the price cycle - however this has never been as the industry touts a cycle triggered by competition, it is solely determined by the oil industry who can carefully regulate and calculate what average margin of profit the upward leap in price and then what motorists see as a slow decline in price as the wholesalers control the wholesale or floor price and that controlled cyclic movement nets the profit level they desire or contrive.

    With alert eyes and price apps the more affluent and savvy motorist can save about $250 a year which is peanuts compared with the thousands of litres sold per day and week by the companies. The downside for low income dependent contract workers, their income depends on supporting their travel day in day out, so they cannot afford to seek out low prices, if they don't fill when the tank is dry, they have to pay the piper or lose their means of support, they cannot afford the luxury of waiting till the price drops.

    Maybe it is the time for lower income people to receive incentives to buy a small hybrid car to reduce the need for petrol and extend the driving ranges between fills especially in urban areas. but in any case for those that can well afford, or their company provides free fuel perhaps give a hand or donation to the groups that try to help out lower income drivers who are struggling to support their families, put your money where your mouth is. and support those independents who genuinely lower prices in opposition to the so called discount cycle, that would be introducing true competition and across all grades of fuel.

    Without going into the global politics, we were lucky with the past troubles in the straits of Hormuz, but I predict some extreme rip off pricing to capitalize on the latest unrest as tensions rise, the prices will shoot up twice as quick. be prepared. I will sound out the Costco base price as usual and post it.

    Ken
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 4th January 2020 at 02:14 AM.
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  24. #299
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    Nice to see that the (at least Sydney) fuel companies are keeping prices artificially low given the current issues with fuel supply.

    Don't forget to get the best value for your fuel by using the popular public fuel apps like Motormouth, and their website motormouth.com.au. I think I'm starting to sound like a paid infomercial but it really is that simple to look at the fuel prices and buy accordingly.

    Sydney fuel 04012020.jpg

    I don't thiink I recall the prices staying so low for so long.

    Thanks guys !

    Cheers

    Justin
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    Prices still seem low, decided to do a shopping trip to Epping and fill up at Costco and on the way noted that most stations seem to be displaying similar prices to a few days ago.

    Costco had Diesel at 139.7 cents a litre and 98 premium at149.7 cents a litre and their 91 RON UlP at 133.7 cents a litre so pretty reasonable, though media is trying to beat up the price.

    International crude oil prices seem pretty stable. Brent crude is $65.50 (up 1% on the day and up 6.8% on the year but far lower than the high of $74.80 way back on the 26th of April 2019) Of course our AUD is only worth 69 cents against the US Dollar at the moment so the prices at Costco are pretty good considering. Good rate for overseas visitors. Probably should have filled a 20 litre jerry can just in case.

    Hope you are all getting much lower prices.

    Ken

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