Latest Wheels mag...
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 26
  1. #1
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,093

    Default Latest Wheels mag...

    Has an 11 way $25K hatch comparo, with the Megane coming 3rd....
    and the 307 coming 4th......

    The winner was the '3' - I refuse to call it the Mazda Mazda3........

    Advertisement
    '07 C3 Exclusive
    '10 308 Sportium Touring
    '12 Megane RS265 8:08

  2. #2
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gordon, NSW
    Posts
    4,527

    Default

    Yeah, I bought it. Haven't read it yet, but the rankings look about right to me...
    - Lincoln

    Contribute to the World Community Grid.

  3. #3
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355

    Default

    I had a quick flick of the magazine in the newsagent, haven't had the chance to read much in detail yet (still haven't received it in the mail yet!).

    The ranking does seem about right (I think Australia's about the only place where the Astra would come second in a comparo in this class though).

    The 307's comments are pretty much on the money, they say the real problem is the ride, not the handling, and that's right. Anyone that's been on an AF drive in Melbourne knows the 307 is a capable car. Their main criticism of the car is with the ride and the engine - when was the last time the French built a truly inspiring petrol engine anyway, we miss out on their best engines - the latest HDis and dCis.

    What I will say - compare their comments about the Megane's handling to the 307s...

    They're about right too

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    3,626

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    when was the last time the French built a truly inspiring petrol engine anyway, we miss out on their best engines - the latest HDis and dCis.
    You're right there. mmMmmmm diesel goodness
    The French don't care about petrol motors anymore me thinks. Fair enough too, after seeing sales figures of different car models and different engines.

    Derek

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,290

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    You're right there. mmMmmmm diesel goodness
    The French don't care about petrol motors anymore me thinks. Fair enough too, after seeing sales figures of different car models and different engines.

    Derek
    One day we will wake up to the advantages of the compression ignition engine. Some decent diesel will see the better euro 3 and 4 motors coming into the country if we ever see the light. I parked next to a Prius this evening (pig ugly thing to boot) but they are showing a comparitive fuel reading of 4.4 l/100. The 406 HDi will regularly return 4.8 l/100 and far better if driven with economy in mind so why bother with this hybrid low performance vehicles when high performance, fuel miser diesels are available today at a much better price, with proven reliability to boot. No wonder the europeans and the French in particular put their R & D dollar or euro into Diesel technology.
    Neil
    '94 405 SRBT

    '82 CX 2400 Pallas 5spd

    '77 CX 2400 Pallas 4spd manual Import

    '76 CX Super

    '05 WL Statesman

    '92 HZJ80 Landcruiser

  6. #6
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gordon, NSW
    Posts
    4,527

    Default

    I'd disagree that Peugeot's petrol engines aren't inspiring.Certainly the XUJ10 engines in the 306 are qite charismatic. I think the 100kw in the 206 GTI and 307 isn't too bad either. The BIGGGEST problem is throttle response, it's not an engine problem, it's a fly by wire/ECU problem. It's trully woeful.

    Fix that and you'll have a remarkably better car. It can't handle partial throttle inputs, it just sucks at it. Don't go blaming the engines on this trully shitty feature.

    OK, I think I've ranted enough.

    Yes, ride is the biggest issue in the 307, that's true.











    Yeah, that throttle. Ergh!!!!! ARghhhhh

  7. #7
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930

    Default

    I'd have to agree that the petrol motors in PSA cars aren't that bad. I was being driven around the UK in a 205 1.1L GL. It was really smooth and had plenty of get-up and go. Would actually cruise at 85mph on the motorway in 5th without any worries.

    Then of course back in Melbourne I've been driving Justin's 307 1.6, a 206 with the same 1.6 and a 1.4L variant as well. Unfortunately they were all autos, and I think we'd all have to agree that automatic gearboxes aren't the French's strong suite, and were never really designed to be matched with small petrol engines. The 1.4L auto was actually a very willing car, and it was probably BECAUSE of its weird auto it did so well. It would hold gears when you lifted off the throttle, thereby keeping the engine revs nice and high for exiting a corner


    I can't wait til we get more french diesels. I seem to remember the brits were totally in love with Renaults 1.9DCi.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  8. #8
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    The French don't care about petrol motors anymore me thinks. Fair enough too, after seeing sales figures of different car models and different engines.
    Have a look at these figures.

    Top 10 selling diesel cars in France (n.b sales are for the diesel model, not including petrol vehicles)

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0><TBODY><TR align=middle><TD class=police2 bgColor=white>VOITURES DIÉSEL LES PLUS VENDUES EN 2003 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR align=middle><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffff99>Rang </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffff99>Immatriculations </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffff99>Pénétration
    marché diésel
    </TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>Unité </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>% </TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>MODELES DIESEL </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=middle bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Renault Mégane </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>1 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>155 615 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>11,5 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Peugeot 307 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>2 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>104 629 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>7,7 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Renault Clio </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>3 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>103 541 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>7,6 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Peugeot 206 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>4 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>95 668 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>7,1 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Citroën Xsara </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>5 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>78 698 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>5,8 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Renault Laguna </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>6 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>54 486 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>4,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Citroën c3 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>7 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>44 427 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>3,3 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Volkswagen Golf </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>8 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>34 822 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>2,6 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Opel Zafira </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>9 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>28 275 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>2,1 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Ford Focus </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>10 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>26 666 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>2,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ff9900>Total </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>1 353 914 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>67,4 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Top 25 cars overall.

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0><TBODY><TR align=middle><TD class=police2 bgColor=white>VOITURES LES PLUS VENDUES EN 2003 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR align=middle><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffff99>Immatriculations </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffff99>Pénétration </TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>Rang </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>unités </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>% </TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Renault Mégane </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>1 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>198 874 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>9,9% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Renault Clio </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>2 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>163 069 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>8,1% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Peugeot 206 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>3 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>159 646 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>7,9% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Peugeot 307 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>4 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>139 924 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>7,0% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Citroën Xsara </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>5 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>99 151 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>4,9% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Citroën C 3 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>6 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>83 533 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>4,2% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Renault Laguna </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>7 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>65 253 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>3,3% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Renault Twingo </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>8 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>53 146 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>2,6% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Volkswagen Golf </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>9 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>40 878 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>2,0% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Opel Zafira </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>10 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>35 045 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,7% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Ford Focus </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>11 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>32 166 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,6% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Opel Corsa </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>12 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>31 029 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,5% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Volkswagen Polo </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>13 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>30 719 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,5% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Citroën C 5 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>14 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>30 761 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,5% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Peugeot 406 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>15 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>29 694 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,5% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Fiat Punto </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>16 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>29 126 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,4% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Toyota Yaris </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>17 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>26 977 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,3% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Ford Fiesta </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>18 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>25 404 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,3% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Renault Espace </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>19 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>24 427 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,2% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Volkswagen Passat </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>20 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>22 219 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,1% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>B.M.W. Serie 3 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>21 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>19 643 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>1,0% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Seat Ibiza </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>22 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>18 705 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>0,9% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Opel Meriva </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>23 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>18 109 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>0,9% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Mercedes classe C </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>24 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>17 940 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>0,9% </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffff99>Citroën Saxo </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>25 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>17 349 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ccffff>0,8% </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Last year, 67% of registrations in France were diesel - http://www.ccfa.fr/tab/fm2.htm

    Just out of interest, here's a comparison of French model sales - see the first quarter figures.

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0><TBODY><TR align=middle><TD class=police2 bgColor=white>IMMATRICULATIONS TRIMESTRIELLES DE VOITURES FRANÇAISES PAR MODÈLE </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR align=middle><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffffff>Marques </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>Modèles </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>1ere T. 04 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>Pen.% </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>12 mois 03 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffcc00>Pén.% </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ffffff></TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff>PEUGEOT </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>106 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>146 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>13 804 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,7 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>206 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>43 754 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>8,6 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>159 646 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>7,9 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>306 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>164 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>307 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>39 301 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>7,8 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>139 924 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>7,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>406 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>5 083 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>29 694 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1,5 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>407 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>370 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,1 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>199 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>607 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>2 248 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,4 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>9 699 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,5 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>806 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>807 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>2 878 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,6 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>12 044 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,6 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>PARTNER </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>3 082 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,6 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>12 556 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,6 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>BOXER </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>245 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1 021 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,1 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>EXPERT </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>111 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>475 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ff9900>TOTAL </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>97 218 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>19,2 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>379 227 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>18,9 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff>CITROEN </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>SAXO </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>296 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,1 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>17 349 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,9 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>XSARA </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>24 953 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>4,9 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>99 151 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>4,9 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>BERLINGO </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>4 753 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,9 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>19 915 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>C2 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>8 770 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1,7 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>10 208 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,5 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>C3 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>22 791 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>4,5 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>83 533 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>4,2 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>C5 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>6 251 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1,2 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>30 719 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1,5 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>C8 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>2 098 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,4 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>9 454 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,5 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>EVASION </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>2 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>JUMPY </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>170 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>451 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>JUMPER </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>170 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>673 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ff9900>TOTAL </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>70 252 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>13,9 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>271 455 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>13,5 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff></TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff>RENAULT </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>AVANTIME </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>4 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1 268 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,1 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>TWINGO </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>13 147 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>2,6 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>53 146 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>2,6 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>CLIO </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>40 251 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>7,9 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>163 069 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>8,1 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>LAGUNA </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>14 020 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>2,8 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>65 253 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>3,2 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>MEGANE </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>54 846 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>10,8 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>198 874 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>9,9 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>THALIA </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>VELSATIS </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1 448 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,3 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>8 406 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,4 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>ESPACE </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>6 191 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1,2 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>24 427 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1,2 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>KANGOO </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>6 199 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1,2 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>26 270 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1,3 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>MASTER </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>224 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,0 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1 175 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,1 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ccffff></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>TRAFIC </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>1 040 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,2 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>4 125 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ffffff>0,2 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=left bgColor=#ff9900>TOTAL </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900></TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>137 370 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>27,1 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>546 014 </TD><TD class=police vAlign=bottom noWrap align=right bgColor=#ff9900>27,2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    I'd disagree that Peugeot's petrol engines aren't inspiring.Certainly the XUJ10 engines in the 306 are qite charismatic. I think the 100kw in the 206 GTI and 307 isn't too bad either. The BIGGGEST problem is throttle response, it's not an engine problem, it's a fly by wire/ECU problem. It's trully woeful.
    To think 307 2.0s were equipped with a cable throttle to begin with

    Throttle by wire need not be bad, it has good potential and it can be executed well. I guess, being electronic, it's an area in which the French would struggle.

    When you compare the current petrol engines to their diesel equivalents, they're not that inspiring

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,093

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Have a look at these figures.

    Top 10 selling diesel cars in France (n.b sales are for the diesel model, not including petrol vehicles)

    ..........snip.......


    To think 307 2.0s were equipped with a cable throttle to begin with

    Throttle by wire need not be bad, it has good potential and it can be executed well. I guess, being electronic, it's an area in which the French would struggle.

    When you compare the current petrol engines to their diesel equivalents, they're not that inspiring
    What the heck is a 'THALIA'????
    '07 C3 Exclusive
    '10 308 Sportium Touring
    '12 Megane RS265 8:08

  10. #10
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6
    What the heck is a 'THALIA'????
    A Clio Sedan.


    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,093

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    A Clio Sedan.
    Now I see why they only sold 1 !!!!!!!!!
    '07 C3 Exclusive
    '10 308 Sportium Touring
    '12 Megane RS265 8:08

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    2035
    Posts
    1,937

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cruiserman
    ....so why bother with this hybrid low performance vehicles when high performance, fuel miser diesels are available today at a much better price, with proven reliability to boot.
    For environmental reasons, no doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by PUG307
    The 307's comments are pretty much on the money, they say the real problem is the ride, not the handling, and that's right.
    I have an issue with this comment. The ride is so bad, that it has a negative affect on the handling. The chassis itself is notably neutral though, just let down by damping that goes wobbly and unpredictable when you start to rely on it. As you know, I had a rental MX5 all weekend. I realise that comparing a dedicated sports car and a family hatch is not exactly fair on either, but the faults of the 307 are highlighted when you realise that a small Japanese zingy sports car HAS A BETTER RIDE than a French small hatch.

    There is definately something wrong with that. I reckon it's the damping. Poor damping in a Peugeot? It hurts just to think it.

    I agree with Lincoln on the throttle issue. I think they let the work experience kid do the software for that. Just gimme a cable between me and the throttle dammit, I'll do the rest. There are far too many times when you make small throttle changes and the ECU gives you a big fat ACCESS DENIED. Then you apply more (or less) throttle to counter this and then it will over react.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,747

    Default

    Its a shame about deisels, because they have many advantages of economy etc. But the carcienogens present in deisel exhaust are just too bad, even with the tricky particulate traps some froggy deiels have. It has recently been attributed to a staggering percentage (havent got specifics on hand..) of cancers in European cities.
    It has been seen in epidemiological studies in Melbourne where there is a large jump in the incidence of cancers where residential areas intersect large busy truck routes.

    Deisel is good, but is old hat now and should not be pursued any further - if we insist on using outdated and unsustainable forms of fuel such as hydrocarbons, we should be burning lighter fractions of hydrocarbons, not the heavy ones. LPG is better, but really, Hydrogen is the way to go, be it fuel cells or to run conventional infernal combustion engines (at which point the Wankel makes a comeback - the long flame front is well suited to H2 as a fuel )

    The Pug deisels may well approach a Prius on a MPG basis, but not on an emmisions quality and quantity basis.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  14. #14
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355

    Default

    My copy finally arrived today, I'll just type in the summary verdict comments for the Froggies.

    Renault Megane Authentique (3rd) - 3.5 stars.

    + Keen engine, world-beating crash safety, quirky design (there's that word again ), loads of gear
    - Electric steering, style-over-substance packaging, rear legroom

    Peugeot 307 XS (4th) - 3.5 stars.

    + Good steering, decisive handling, decent space, stacks of equipment
    - Lack of engine and road-noise refinement, slouching front seats

    Hmmn, Peugeot shouldn't have taken out that underbonnet insulation in more recent petrol 307s*...

    * only in the diesels now, some dealers were putting warranty claims for them thinking the factory had forgotten to put them on - they were not equipped intentionally for cost cutting reasons I suspect.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location
    Posts
    1,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    + loads of gear
    - style-over-substance packaging
    How can a car have loads of gear and at the same time lack substance?

    I don't get it.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    2035
    Posts
    1,937

    Default

    I think they are referring to the fact that the unusual rear styling is exactly that - styling. It does nothing to improve accomodation in the rear at all. In fact ingress/egress is difficult due to the low roof, and it has truly woeful legroom.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5,070

    Default Diesels

    Hi, agree with Haakon. I've had a Prius for a day and it was an excellent car to drive around Melbourne. Only got 5.2/100km on a stinking hot day with the aircon on all the time. I was also pushing it.
    Yet i see a problem with hybrids - too complicated. Well, anyting i can't fix is too complicated.
    I've had experience with diesels in europe and they are fantastic but one has to realise that diesel fuel supplies are not unlimited. Refering to the refining process of crude oil.
    Our work car is a Corolla station wagon. Love the engine, it reves like a sowing machine. Plenty of go and econimical. Females consider it a bit noisy but i think it makes a nice noise
    JoBo

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    100

    Default diesel

    If anyone's interested the energy content of

    Petrol - 2.26kW.hr/litre
    Diesel - 3.28kW.hr/litre

    More energy yielding bonds in the diesel or something.
    So an equivalent diesel engine should get 30% or so better economy in terms of km/litres of fuel without trying. I do love diesels.

  19. #19
    Member blacklotus99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Speaking of diesels, a family member bought a new X5 3.0d a couple of weeks ago. Had a drive of it and its quite simply awesome. Its the revised X5 diesel with 150Kw and 500Nm.
    The thing is so punchy and feels like it has never ending torque. Its quite quick too. May be one of the best cars ive ever driven, no matter that its a huge 4wd. And it gets 1000km to the tank. Great Q car.
    Seems diesel doesnt get any market share here because our fuel isnt $3 a litre. If it were I think things may be quite different as in europe. Shame. According to a lot of reviews, the diesel version is the car to have. New Golf for example.
    BMW are right on the money with this new revised X5d. If you can find a demo somewhere I suggest you make the time. You will be shocked.
    blacklotus99

    2004 RenaultSport Clio 172

    1999 Porsche 996 C2 Coupe

  20. #20
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by graham66
    How can a car have loads of gear and at the same time lack substance?

    I don't get it.
    Easy - the Megane has lots of equipment (loads of gear).

    Brenno's explained the style over substance packaging - simple, you create an arty design that does nothing for interior space. If you look at the boot - there's a bit of wasted space there thanks to the rump - extra length in the boot that has next to no height, so it's space that isn't particularly useable.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location
    Posts
    1,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Easy - the Megane has lots of equipment (loads of gear).

    Brenno's explained the style over substance packaging - simple, you create an arty design that does nothing for interior space. If you look at the boot - there's a bit of wasted space there thanks to the rump - extra length in the boot that has next to no height, so it's space that isn't particularly useable.
    Assuming they were referring to useable space then "style at the expense of interior space" might have been less confusing.

    It's the sloppy journalism that's easy

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Jez 405's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    542

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by touring?
    If anyone's interested the energy content of

    Petrol - 2.26kW.hr/litre
    Diesel - 3.28kW.hr/litre

    More energy yielding bonds in the diesel or something.
    So an equivalent diesel engine should get 30% or so better economy in terms of km/litres of fuel without trying. I do love diesels.
    Just on the side... anyone know why the energy content of fuels is measured in kW.hr/litre?

    The Watt is a measure of energy per unit time, so that makes the kW.hour a redundant term.... Perhaps joules/litre or kilojoules/litre would be a more appropriate term. But anyway, back to the topic....

    Never had the opportunity to drive a diesel passenger car before, but I'd love to try sometime. The torque figures of the modern turbodiesels (esp BMW's 3.0d - almost as much as the 4.4 V8!) looks very impressive.
    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI S1
    1996 Jaguar XJR X300
    1991 Honda VT250 Spada
    1992 Peugeot 405 S (R.I.P. 31/07/2005)

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South West Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    240

    Default

    "Assuming they were referring to useable space then "style at the expense of interior space" might have been less confusing.

    It's the sloppy journalism that's easy"

    That would be Wheels and or Motor? Don't go much on either mag nowadays, I find they tend to be line ball with their copy, ie interchangeable in their comments writing styles etc.

    And starting to sounds like Shane L dependent upon the current advertisers!

    Just my opinion, no doubt will ruffle a few feathers....

    Regards
    Andrew

  24. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jez 405
    Just on the side... anyone know why the energy content of fuels is measured in kW.hr/litre?
    Sorry, that is exactly how my source has quoted the units. I think they were trying to compare the power efficiency of devices run on fuel engines compared to electricity motors. Hence when electricity usage is in kW.hr's, kW.hr/litre seems logical.

  25. #25
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,863

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6
    Now I see why they only sold 1 !!!!!!!!!
    The Thalia isnt on the www.renault.fr website, i believe its a model marketed fro south america!

    Cya Stalled
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

    1997 Peugeot 406 2.0 Manual - On Loan

    2004 Citroen C3 1.4 80th Anniversary (RIP)

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •