ACCC report - Car Retailing - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Lawyer is in background, helping to make the bullets that will be fired. Lawyer is in Japan, so largely undetectable.

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    If lawyer turns up at hearing VW then have opportunity to turn up with team of QC's and threaten costs award unless we back down ( all same Channel Seven )

    Mech engineer is good idea, but we have not had access to the car for last seven weeks

    Any ideas as to suitable person gratefully accepted

    Many thanks

    Andrew

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Hope you told them of the professional representation in the directions hearing.

    And have a mechanically qualified person to support your arguments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Back to my aircraft maintenance analogy. Unless you were a qualified LAME you could not work on your own Cessna, or that of anyone elses'. Why so? Isn't that anti competitive? Or is it just insisting that the influence of dickheads is entirely removed from the maintenance safety equation?

    Instead of whinging about poor service, why aren't people sticking it up the RACV et al and insisting car mechanics are properly qualified so that we can spend even more on keeping our vehicles going?
    You are too funny, Kim! I've never heard of a car falling out of the sky when the engine failed
    BTW, i suspect aircraft mechanics are better trained if the one i met is the rule. I had a cylinderhead fail in the meddle of SA due to virtually instantaneous coolant loss. I took the head off and the local mechanic in Kimba did the rest. I watched him and noted his impeccable work method. Asked him where he leaned his trade - he was an aircraft mechanic in WWII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    By avoiding the dealer service network, however, those owners also avoid having to confront service executives regarding shoddy work and dodgy work practices thus helping to perpetuate them.
    Thats me, Kim.
    Just took my i30 (50,000km 7 years old) To an independent small garage.
    He suggested the parts he replaced (wiper blades, air filters, black gearbox oil) were most likely the ones the car came with, and was not really surprised when I told him the car formerly mums and had always been dealer serviced.

    I won't be going back to that dealer to let their arrogant service executive know about dodgy work practices, and on my advice mum won't be taking her brand new renault back there either.

    Jo

  4. #54
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    How you can buy a new car from a dealership whose service centre you claim is run by arrogant people with dodgy work practices would appear at face value to require a more detailed explanation.

    Could it be that your intense and public dislike for the service department at said dealership was simply and easily overcome by a favourable financial offer on a new vehicle by their sales team? Some people with integrity might have let their intense dislike for part of the organisation avoid them dealing with the organisation at all.
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    How you can buy a new car from a dealership whose service centre you claim is run by arrogant people with dodgy work practices …..
    We didn't and probably never will again.
    Went a long way out of our area to buy the car from a dealer who actually went to some effort.

    Jo

  6. #56
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    Icon11 Consumer trust!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    How you can buy a new car from a dealership whose service centre you claim is run by arrogant people with dodgy work practices would appear at face value to require a more detailed explanation.

    Could it be that your intense and public dislike for the service department at said dealership was simply and easily overcome by a favourable financial offer on a new vehicle by their sales team? Some people with integrity might have let their intense dislike for part of the organisation avoid them dealing with the organisation at all.
    Years back kim, I had a colleague who was spare time working at the Toyota local factory, and he had his then brand new Toyota serviced at yes a "Toyota" factory dealership.

    He wasn't impressed with their high charges and responses, so when booking his car in to "service" on one of the more extensive listed services, he examined the list of things to be replaced, then marked all the filters and consumer items with a coded mark.

    When he got the car back from the service he checked the itemised bill and on checking the list of parts charged and claimed to have been fitted, he found none of the expensive service items that were listed and charged for had been fitted.

    That problem was quickly fixed of course, but my thought then, was how many other owners had been more trusting and got ripped off by the same firm.

    I bet that after that experience they at least looked to see if the filters etc had been marked by the sneaky owner!!

    Probably even more reason to check these days with the high cost of consumer parts and services. Trust is such a difficult thing, but yours to bestow if they deserve the confidence. IMHO!

    Maybe that is one reason I like to check replaced parts when my cars are serviced at regular intervals.

    Ken

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    We didn't and probably never will again.
    Went a long way out of our area to buy the car from a dealer who actually went to some effort.

    Jo
    No Wuckers!
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    You are too funny, Kim! I've never heard of a car falling out of the sky when the engine failed
    BTW, i suspect aircraft mechanics are better trained if the one i met is the rule. I had a cylinderhead fail in the meddle of SA due to virtually instantaneous coolant loss. I took the head off and the local mechanic in Kimba did the rest. I watched him and noted his impeccable work method. Asked him where he leaned his trade - he was an aircraft mechanic in WWII.
    Lol I remember a certain qantas mechanic couldn't get his oil filter off his 505 so he put a coke can around it with hose clamps props to him but because it made it from the central coast to foster before it went bang.


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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    You are too funny, Kim! I've never heard of a car falling out of the sky when the engine failed
    If an aircraft were to pass another one going in the opposite direction a couple of metres away at a combined speed of 200 km/h, CASA would start an investigation. You and I are happy to do exactly that every day we're on the highway, where the tolerance for maladjusted or badly maintained steering or brakes on the road is zero. Windscreen wiper blades can cause accidents, as can cut tyres, even leaking exhausts. All these things should be picked up at service, but who services the car, how often and do they really care? Professionals service aircraft (a little more than the engine in fact), shouldn't they be servicing our cars?
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    And I assume you don't replace your own tap washers or light globes.

    It's far too "risky" for a non qualified person.

    It's always better to pay a professional, whose skill can easily determined by the fees they charge.

    However many non "qualified" people make it their business to study and acquire the necessary skills to perform so called "professionals" works. AF is A testament to that.

    I think you may need to embrace the Australian concept of "have a go, mate"

    Because like it or not that is exactly what will prevail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    ... i suspect aircraft mechanics are better trained .......
    I would hope so, but I where there are people, someone is going to find a way to mess it up. I know of one chap who ended in the wheelchair when he picked up his helicopter after service. It took off ok, gained enough altitude to wreck his back when the thing failed and hit the ground, stuff ups are not so funny when they impact on peoples life that seriously. Not only did he end up in the chair but serious constant pain that medical science struggled to master.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    And I assume you don't replace your own tap washers or light globes.

    It's far too "risky" for a non qualified person.

    It's always better to pay a professional, whose skill can easily determined by the fees they charge.

    However many non "qualified" people make it their business to study and acquire the necessary skills to perform so called "professionals" works. AF is A testament to that.

    I think you may need to embrace the Australian concept of "have a go, mate"

    Because like it or not that is exactly what will prevail.
    I'm acquainted with unqualified people who have performed (quite illegally) almost every conceivable task from rewiring 240V and 415V around their homes and factories to performing surgery on gas appliances. I give their domiciles a wide berth.

    As a long qualified fitter, I've never had the arrogance to presume that simply because I'm competent in one sphere that my expertise automatically qualifies me in every other. Even commentary......
    It's another lovely day! Again!

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I'm acquainted with unqualified people who have performed (quite illegally) almost every conceivable task from rewiring 240V and 415V around their homes and factories to performing surgery on gas appliances. I give their domiciles a wide berth.
    Thats nothing!

    I knew a guy who without any prior experience performed a desexing on his german shepherd bitch.

    It all went well too….until about 4 days later when the bitch decided to chew out the stitches and let her guts fall out.

    Jo

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Thats nothing!

    I knew a guy who without any prior experience performed a desexing on his german shepherd bitch.

    It all went well too….until about 4 days later when the bitch decided to chew out the stitches and let her guts fall out.

    Jo
    Pity one of his mates didn't have the gumption to offer him a home sterilisation of his own! Poor dog!
    It's another lovely day! Again!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I'm acquainted with unqualified people who have performed (quite illegally) almost every conceivable task from rewiring 240V and 415V around their homes and factories to performing surgery on gas appliances. I give their domiciles a wide berth.

    As a long qualified fitter, I've never had the arrogance to presume that simply because I'm competent in one sphere that my expertise automatically qualifies me in every other. Even commentary......
    Factoring in your "offerings" in this thread I ask myself what your interest, in AF could possibly be ?

    You leave all work on your car to professionals and actively promote the idea others should do the same.

    Just to remind you, of the AF "creed" Sharing the Knowledge. Which very much encompasses the concept of DIY car repair and modification.

    And for the record I would consider a few of the "learning by doing, gifted amateurs" AF members streets ahead in skills of many dealer mechanics. Mainly due to their unpaid commitment to the craft of auto mechanics.

    A corollary of fact that hands on learning is a perfectly valid method to acquire skills.
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  16. #66
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    Three things.

    Firstly, "hands on learning is a perfectly valid method to acquire skills" So which airline do you fly on?

    Secondly, I'm lucky enough to have been able to afford to buy new vehicles on several occasions, and as they were in warranty had them serviced by the dealers that sold them. No failures or complaints.

    Thirdly, I'm sharing this knowledge with you and others because although I'm quite capable of performing mechanical repairs on my Renaults, none of them have ever got to the age where they needed any......

    Fourthly, I'm a Renault enthusiast.
    It's another lovely day! Again!

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Three things.

    Firstly, "hands on learning is a perfectly valid method to acquire skills" So which airline do you fly on?

    Secondly, I'm lucky enough to have been able to afford to buy new vehicles on several occasions, and as they were in warranty had them serviced by the dealers that sold them. No failures or complaints.

    Thirdly, I'm sharing this knowledge with you and others because although I'm quite capable of performing mechanical repairs on my Renaults, none of them have ever got to the age where they needed any......

    Fourthly, I'm a Renault enthusiast.
    Whatever..

    Ps we ARE disusing car maintenance.

    It was you who introduced aircraft into the discussion.
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  18. #68
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    The aircraft analogies were simply to explain why qualified maintenance is better than home schooled, in most cases.
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    The aircraft analogies were simply to explain why qualified maintenance is better than home schooled, in most cases.
    I like the qualifier Kim...in most cases

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    The aircraft analogies were simply to explain why qualified maintenance is better than home schooled, in most cases.
    Or a furphy to distract or deflect, a KL specialist technique.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


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    I think there is already a change happening in dealer/manufacturer attitudes in Australia, based on recent experiences in dealer servicing of my 2016 Ford Territory (Sorry its not a frog, but comments are relevant). I think they are really trying hard.

    Firstly, I was pleasantly surprised when told about 12 months ago that my Sat Nav would now be updated without charge when I have it serviced by a Ford dealer - I believe this is now standard practice across the range. As anyone who has a factory satnav knows, it has been a hefty charge to update annually, maybe $200-400. About time it became a service item. BTW the last annual service I had was about $250 which is reasonable these days.

    Secondly, I recently had a communication from Ford that it had been found that dealers (all/some?) had been adding a small charge to cover their advertised "free for 12 months" roadside assistance if your car is serviced at a dealer. A cynic like myself would not be surprised at this practise, but obviously they have been caught out by consumer affairs (or maybe within their own QA/Ethics people), as they have offered to refund that included charge, upon contacting them by return email. So I ended up with a discount on my next shopping bill as I chose to receive the refund in Coles vouchers to the grand total of $17.00! They continue to offer the roadside assistance package as far as I know, but not to build in a charge in the service - it has to be free.

    Anyway, I have been somewhat surprised at both the above instances, but interesting how their attitude seems to be changing for the better. I wonder if any other manufacturers are showing similar attitudes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordman View Post
    . BTW the last annual service I had was about $250 which is reasonable these days.
    Sounds excellent; was that for the 2.7 Diesel (similar to PSA one)? What did service entail?
    Last edited by turnbull151; 28th August 2017 at 09:49 AM.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Or a furphy to distract or deflect, a KL specialist technique.
    On reflection, not. I'm quite sure you would all be happy to fly in an Airbus 380 serviced exclusively by Ultratune.....
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    On reflection, not. I'm quite sure you would all be happy to fly in an Airbus 380 serviced exclusively by Ultratune.....
    Have a look where Qantas aircraft are currently being serviced and the skills may not be too different.

    Qantas' outsourcing of maintenance work overseas is affecting plane safety claims union | Daily Mail Online

    Or a furphy to distract or deflect, a KL specialist technique
    I rest my case.
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Have a look where Qantas aircraft are currently being serviced and the skills may not be too different.

    Qantas' outsourcing of maintenance work overseas is affecting plane safety claims union | Daily Mail Online



    I rest my case.
    Claims are one thing, reality is another. I do not see QANTAS aircraft falling out of the sky because they are being maintained in a foreign country. They are being maintained in accordance with FAA regulations and their manufacturers' instructions by properly qualified personnel. Whilst it is disappointing to lose our maintenance income, your case is resting on unsafe ground!
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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