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Thread: France goes all electric vehicles by 2040

  1. #26
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Toyota already offer an 8 year/ 160,00 warranty on their hybrid batteries.

    On averages, a consumer who buys an electric vehicle and keeps it for 10 years (current average ownership time), is not likely to replace batteries.
    Its the second owner that will face that issue.

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    The same as now that the second owner faces the major component failure/replacement.
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    Same situation when purchasing second hand cars, white goods, or camels.

    The condition will be as good or as bad as the first owner's attention to maintenance.
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    Icon14 Time to dust off an old dream of mine the Electric Fuego!

    Maybe it is time to dust off the old plan to strip out a Fuego and fit it out with an electric motor and a battery pack or two, now if I could get the same government assistance and support as the "renewables" investment industry, a new sparkling repaint and we are good for the next 30 years. In the Summer I could fit a long flat Solar panel to act as a shade and power packer extended over the entire length of the car.

    Might be able to sell the idea to the off the grid people in the outback.

    Mistarenno will probably beat me to the concept though as he already had a very nice gas conversion Fuego, but the solar panel in summer might pluck the performance that he likes in his versions.

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Maybe it is time to dust off the old plan to strip out a Fuego and fit it out with an electric motor and a battery pack or two, now if I could get the same government assistance and support as the "renewables" investment industry, a new sparkling repaint and we are good for the next 30 years. In the Summer I could fit a long flat Solar panel to act as a shade and power packer extended over the entire length of the car.

    Might be able to sell the idea to the off the grid people in the outback.

    Mistarenno will probably beat me to the concept though as he already had a very nice gas conversion Fuego, but the solar panel in summer might pluck the performance that he likes in his versions.

    Ken
    All very possible

    However remember to comply with Department of Infrastructure regulations.

    https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/..._01Jan2011.pdf
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Same situation when purchasing second hand cars, white goods, or camels.

    The condition will be as good or as bad as the first owner's attention to maintenance.
    Almost the same except that current battery technologies have a "calendar life" (timebomb?) and wear out even if you aren't using them at all:
    Calendar Aging of Lithium-Ion Batteries
    It'll take time for the repairers to start getting up to speed on these issues, hopefully it wont be too long until they can do a generic battery health/life/quality test like they do now for starting batteries. Then it'll just be another of those things which you need to have checked when buying a second hand car.
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  6. #31
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    Icon11 Interesting.....

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    All very possible

    However remember to comply with Department of Infrastructure regulations.

    https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/..._01Jan2011.pdf
    Now that was an interesting read, they sort of take all the fun out of the process. I like the part where you have to watch not interfering with RF communication, I guess that might prevent fitting a radar suppression or repellent device to render some speed camera irrelevant, sorry Gonz we won't be building that AWAC style radar deterrent system from a fighter plane into the Fuego

    Much of the other stuff I had thought about particularly the weight distribution, hadn't though about the demisting hot and cold air stuff as the Fuego was never that efficient in our hot summers. Maybe I will wait till Mistarenno constructs his, debugs the system and gets it past the regulators and then copy his design always a good design path

    Thanks for posting, its always interesting to see how complicated boffins and others can make things.

    Ken

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    We had a taxi ride from Hobart air port to the city in a Prius. The owner driver couldn't speak highly enough of the Prius.
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    I like the part where you have to watch not interfering with RF communication
    If one reasons on a logical level RFI (radio frequency interference) could be a real problem from electric vehicles. Especially with switching type power controllers which are capable of creating harmonics well into the VHF and UHF spectrum.

    They are quite capable of causing interference to vehicle 2 way radios and on occasions with motor vehicle ECUs. And any other device that shares space in these parts of the radio spectrum.

    Generally regulations have been written to protect against a problem that has already happened.

    A practical demonstration of RFI is to bring the antenna of a AM radio close to light dimmer or computer power supply and observe the "hash" that is received , ie the RFI to the AM broadcast band.

    Fortunately, it no longer a free for all with EMI (electromagnetic interference - a broader classification of RFI), standards (C tick et al) limit what can legally be used in Australia.
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    Toyota's warranty on the Hibrid batteries is basically the life of the vehicle. The resale of the vehicle, and if you can sell it after 8 years /160,000km, is questionable and based on the diminished ability and expected terminal life of the battery, or pay $8000-10,000 for a new battery pack (or guess the price?). Battery technology changes and advances are made, this is the reason the Renault electric vehicles have lease batteries where they can be changed and upgraded, eg Renault Twizy. Purchase of a nice new DS5 may be a smart move because future resale of internal combustion cars with be rock bottom anyway after a decade. Get a nice car and drive it for the next decade, it will have the same trade in value as a electric car with a kaput battery.

    ( P.S. The Citroen 2CV would made an ideal vehicle for an upgrade to electric engine and battery pack! Light and very simple and goes forever.)
    Last edited by halfamill; 12th July 2017 at 08:19 PM.

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    Default Why not steam.... ?

    G'day,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Maybe it is time to dust off the old plan to strip out a Fuego and fit it out with an electric motor and a battery pack or two, now if I could get the same government assistance and support as the "renewables" investment industry, a new sparkling repaint and we are good for the next 30 years. In the Summer I could fit a long flat Solar panel to act as a shade and power packer extended over the entire length of the car.

    Might be able to sell the idea to the off the grid people in the outback.

    Mistarenno will probably beat me to the concept though as he already had a very nice gas conversion Fuego, but the solar panel in summer might pluck the performance that he likes in his versions.

    Ken
    nice one Ken, although my interests would lie in a different direction. There's a steam combi at Lake Goldsmith, used to scare the wits out of others being passed by it on Geelong Rd so I've heard, going like the clappers and zero noise...

    cheers,
    Bob
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    Will one compare to a recent trip to Townsville for the V8,s, 1060 km on three quarters of a tank of diesel in 14 hours with 4 on board and 5 days luggage?
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    Ted Pritchard was driving around Caulfield when I was a boy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJq2Hc_mXFI

    The clip is like a history of Melbourne roads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geedee View Post
    Will one compare to a recent trip to Townsville for the V8,s, 1060 km on three quarters of a tank of diesel in 14 hours with 4 on board and 5 days luggage?
    That doesn't matter. Buy the right car and you get 5 weeks per year free hire of an AVIS (or Hertz) vehicle included.

    So you use your electric for everyday use (I assuming that most people's commute is less than 200km each way) and the hire car when it's needed. Whats the point of buying your only car based on what you might do once a year and having to drive an inappropriate for its enviroment car for 51 weeks?

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    One might only be able to hire electric vehicles from Avis or whoever as from 2040 in an "all electric vehicle" nation. I guess hiring a different one every 3-400km might get you from one end of France to the other........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    One might only be able to hire electric vehicles from Avis or whoever as from 2040 in an "all electric vehicle" nation. I guess hiring a different one every 3-400km might get you from one end of France to the other........
    Avis and a few others are already hiring out Camry and Corolla Hybrids.

    Hybrids are obviously best suited to City Commuting.

    However even in the country the Atkinson Cycle petrol engines are still pretty fuel efficient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Avis and a few others are already hiring out Camry and Corolla Hybrids.

    Hybrids are obviously best suited to City Commuting.

    However even in the country the Atkinson Cycle petrol engines are still pretty fuel efficient.
    Are you telling me that ALL-electric by 2040 doesn't mean ALL-electric?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    One might only be able to hire electric vehicles from Avis or whoever as from 2040 in an "all electric vehicle" nation. I guess hiring a different one every 3-400km might get you from one end of France to the other........

    We're talking 23 years time. Are you suggesting there will be no progress in non carbon-burning fuel vehicles in that time?

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    Let's just think back shall we? The first electric vehicle was built/completed by a smart pommy named Robert Anderson between 1832-1839. Between then and now is an awful long time to get electric vehicles right, isn't it?

    You're saying they're not right yet but another 23 years will fix it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Are you telling me that ALL-electric by 2040 doesn't mean ALL-electric?
    I'm not sure.

    And other European countries are allowing hybrids and many manufacturers are heading towards Hybrid technology.

    So it a kind of implied logic that France will allow hybrids as well.

    'All electric" is quite ambiguous, as in all the cars in France to have an electric component Or are all cars in France to be only electric, ie nothing fossil fueled.

    As always, it takes time for the legislators to catch up the politician mouths.

    So time will be the tell what the press release actually means.

    And there seems little detail except the repetitious phase "All electric"
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I'm not sure.

    And other European countries are allowing hybrids and many manufacturers are heading towards Hybrid technology.

    So it a kind of implied logic that France will allow hybrids as well.

    'All electric" is quite ambiguous, as in all the cars in France to have an electric component Or are all cars in France to be only electric, ie nothing fossil fueled.

    As always, it takes time for the legislators to catch up the politician mouths.

    So time will be the tell what the press release actually means.

    And there seems little detail except the repetitious phase "All electric"
    I think the worst part Rob, is that you and I may not be around in 23 years time to see exactly what it did mean!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I think the worst part Rob, is that you and I may not be around in 23 years time to see exactly what it did mean!
    Very true, although I may have a slight chance unless if my illness get gets me first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Let's just think back shall we? The first electric vehicle was built/completed by a smart pommy named Robert Anderson between 1832-1839. Between then and now is an awful long time to get electric vehicles right, isn't it?

    You're saying they're not right yet but another 23 years will fix it?
    Completely fatuous argument.

    Look at it another way: 20 years ago there was no electric car you could buy in Australia, and now there is an electric car you can buy with a range of 400km. Using your maths we can safely predict that electric cars in 23 years time will have unlimited range on one charge.

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    unlimited range on one charge.
    This can't happen until we find a way to beat friction and perfect the perpetual energy machine.

    However fully electric cars will probably have much further driving ranges in 20 years odd, which I'd think is the crux of your statement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardofaus View Post
    Completely fatuous argument.

    Look at it another way: 20 years ago there was no electric car you could buy in Australia, and now there is an electric car you can buy with a range of 400km. Using your maths we can safely predict that electric cars in 23 years time will have unlimited range on one charge.
    Maybe even more
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    Icon14 A steamy dreamy Fuego.. not this year it seems. But....

    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    G'day,



    nice one Ken, although my interests would lie in a different direction. There's a steam combi at Lake Goldsmith, used to scare the wits out of others being passed by it on Geelong Rd so I've heard, going like the clappers and zero noise...

    cheers,
    Bob
    Yep, Rob and Bob, that was the original concept/idea inspired by the Prichard and other early conversions. I had virtually put that idea aside with the idea that electric was the way to go, with plenty of spare motors, and what looked to be a relatively easy D.I.Y. concept, but as usual the regulators and nanny state people just have to interfere and spoil the simplicity of the conversion, and mind you I had though about most of those issues and safety aspects anyway....but you know what thought, thought!

    And when you are dealing with zealous regulators, the best experimental thing that has zero cost is to let someone else take them on and then you can coast in on the coat-tails of the contest and it won't cost you an arm and a leg and that is what hobby dreaming is about.

    Now somewhere in my library of old books and automotive stuff is quite a few on early steam cars and I think I concluded that the main expense would be developing the steam boiler as I have no doubt the nanny state would want to get in the act with all sorts of hobby regulation as you know they might be a hazard and blow up when used on the road.

    Now is there anyone building a steam car engine suitable for the Fuggie.

    Thanks for the nostalgia about the Pritchard steam car Rob.

    Regards

    Ken

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