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Thread: *PSA Is In Talks With General Motors To Deepen Their Partnership - Source

  1. #76
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    Wolseley Hornet (aka Riley Elf) - British badge engineering at it's best!

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    Holden and Toyota didn't even go that far.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    Wolseley Hornet (aka Riley Elf) - British badge engineering at it's best!

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    Still a Morris Mini Minor! And you forgot these:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails *PSA Is In Talks With General Motors To Deepen Their Partnership - Source-austin-mini.jpg   *PSA Is In Talks With General Motors To Deepen Their Partnership - Source-mggnat.jpg  
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    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    Another twist in the tale...

    Once the symbol of Australia, Holden Commodore will be French-owned after GM sale

    https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/17...odore-in-doubt

    Unbelievable! My original joke may be more or less correct!

    Cheers

    Alec

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    All may not be sweetness and light! Attached is an example of the victory of marketing over a hard earned history:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails *PSA Is In Talks With General Motors To Deepen Their Partnership - Source-mg1100.jpg  
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    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    what a confused article! or maybe it is just me.

    As i understand it, Holden is owned by GM, and Holden isnt being sold to PSA. it may well be the Opel was intended to manufacture commodores, but is there any reason to assume PSA will take that over and supply GM with cars which GM designed? even if PSA does manufacture commodores, it would essentially be a contract manufacturer of a GM product, so it hardly makes holden or the commodore french in any way at all.

    i also dont understand the reference to Trump. yes he wants US companies to manufacture domestically, but GM is simply selling off brands from which it makes no money, not moving manufacturing back to the US.

    who would have expected such a low standard of writing from the SMH?

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    Well does Toby Hagon in 'Wheels' make it any clearer? He is saying that part of the deal with PSA is that they will build the planned new Commodore in the Opel factories, using GM IP, for 5 years.

    I agree it doesn't look like they'll be very French, but isn't it likely that after a year or two PSA would at least start slipping their engines in? Hope they can find a decent transmission...


    General Motors confirmed it would offload its Opel/Vauxhall division to French giant PSA raising questions about the future of one third of Holden’s future models, including the Holden Astra and the soon-to-arrive 2018 Commodore. However, the supply of both cars now remains certain for at least the next five years as part of the transformation process.

    ...

    Holden released a brief statement confirming the immediate supply of Opel-sourced cars – including the upcoming Commodore, the first one not produced in Australia – claiming “these product programs are not affected at all”.

    The statement read: “Holden and Opel have had close ties for many years and delivered fantastic vehicles to Australian customers, including the current all-new Astra and the next-generation Commodore due in 2018. The good news is these product programs are not affected at all. We will continue to work closely with Opel and GM to deliver our vehicle plans with excellence and precision. This includes future, new right-hand-drive SUVs like the Equinox and Acadia that were engineered specifically for right-hand drive markets.”

    ...

    “Opel/Vauxhall will also continue to benefit from intellectual property licenses from GM until its vehicles progressively convert to PSA platforms over the coming years,” read one section.

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    auto transmissions mated to small or unsuited engines
    The AL4 may not be great, even if now obsolete, but "unsuited" engines? Doesn't every small Korean auto have an equally small engine? Is this bloke worth reading?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post

    I agree it doesn't look like they'll be very French, but isn't it likely that after a year or two PSA would at least start slipping their engines in? Hope they can find a decent transmission...

    ]
    to be fair i suppose the writers are working with limited information themselves, but i am going to assume that Opel will simply be building a product on contract for 5 years, so wont have any input into what the product is. so would not, for instance, have the option of deciding on the engine.

    no doubt someone here will have some idea, but if Opel are manufacturing the commodores, would that mean that the tooling for the cars had been shipped from australia to germany? beyond the 5 years who would know? i wouldnt be surprised if GM doesnt even see it selling a the Commodore beyond 5 years from now.

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    Hi
    I have stopped reading the auto magazines and tests in papers etc etc because the writers all just belong to "THE CLUB" They all get together with the auto trade and the spin merchants and have a good time and decide what to write about. There is no objectivity in any of it. In fact it has no relevence to the average punter anyway who does not drive at 10 tenths and never goes out to Burke or even past the outer suburbs. Same story with 4WDs but worse.
    The trade and "THE CLUB" is just to drive sales and make the punters feel good about spending their hard earned dollars. Fact have no place there! So expect soon there will be stories starting to prepare the punters for the great new cars coming out of, wait for it, PSA factories. A great history of great cars etc etc. Perhaps a rename will grease the way. But they ressurected Skoda OK and Viva and others so perhaps even the AL4 will rise again
    Jaahn
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    As I read it the al4 has tremendous scope to rise, given the depths to which it sunk.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using aussiefrogs mobile app

  12. #87
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    As I read it the al4 has tremendous scope to rise, given the depths to which it sunk.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using aussiefrogs mobile app
    Compared to the Volkswagen DSG box, the AL4/DP0 is a gem.
    Don't know what you're complaining about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 404 View Post
    Some???

    .....snip.....
    Malibu (has anyone actually seen one on the road?)
    ....snip.....

    Dave
    I've seen a couple - I was amazed at how 'Chevy' they looked and made a double take at the badge...

    Cheers

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    One swoop of the paw....MAYBE Peugeot will get some recognition & respect.

    At least they never built a car that was only worthy of pushing over the cliff in the Redex....or was it the Ampol by Stilwell & Co.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    Compared to the Volkswagen DSG box, the AL4/DP0 is a gem.
    Don't know what you're complaining about.
    i dont have experience with either, but as far as i can see, the AL4 is just a common and garden automatic gearbox, which does nothing special, but frequently expires early, defies remediation, and cost alot of money in the process. the DSG, OTOH, even if it also has/had problems, is a frigging awesome gearbox, so you get some added value for your troubles. plus, again just i read it, the DSG problems were all sorted some years back. unlike the other one, which, according to AF threads, seems to be fundamentally and unrepairably, problematic.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    i dont have experience with either, but as far as i can see, the AL4 is just a common and garden automatic gearbox, which does nothing special, but frequently expires early, defies remediation, and cost alot of money in the process. the DSG, OTOH, even if it also has/had problems, is a frigging awesome gearbox, so you get some added value for your troubles. plus, again just i read it, the DSG problems were all sorted some years back. unlike the other one, which, according to AF threads, seems to be fundamentally and unrepairably, problematic.
    The DSG has (or had) a proclivity for causing the vehicle to suddenly loose speed and has been responsible for at least one death in Australia and was the subject of a recall. The DP0/AL4 on the other hand, were subject to a gradual failure of one or more of the solenoids and the worst that one got was for the box to go into limp mode (usually at low speed). There have not been any deaths attributed to an AL4 failure not were the AL4/DP0 the subject of a recall. The AL4 failure would usually require the replacement of one or more solenoids. Once the DSG failed, the entire gearbox usually had to be replaced, possibly at the cost of the owner if outside the warranty period, and at far more than the cost of replacing a few solenoids in an AL4.

    Nice gearbox or not, one does not buy an automatic for the 'awesome driving experience'.
    Yes you could change gears manually if you wanted but really, how many people manually change gears in an automatic where the facility exists.
    I for one do not consider death as a fair price for the driving experience.
    Both gearboxes do now have reliable fixes, yes even the AL4 if done properly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    yes even the AL4 if done properly.
    judging by threads i have read on this forum, if there is a reliable fix for the AL4, it has escaped the attention of anyone here.
    Last edited by alexander; 13th March 2017 at 10:17 AM.

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    The DSG has (or had) a proclivity for causing the vehicle to suddenly loose speed and has been responsible for at least one death in Australia and was the subject of a recall.
    Let's be completely clear with the facts The car Melissa Ryan was driving and t-boned in was a manual Vw Golf .(And Police on site mentioned the possibility of mobile telephone being involved in the accident)

    The VW Dsg was recall was an entirely separate process. And in no way related to the above.

    The only reason the two became merged was because of the press FUD and opposition brand marketing opportunism.

    And reading you contribution, the FUD campaign obviously has worked on some people.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


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    25928 DSG equipped cars were recalled here because, in VAG's own words “an electronic malfunction in the control unit inside the gearbox mechatronics may result in a power interruption”.

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    besides which, if someone runs into you because your car lost power, i would have said that was the fault of the other driver!
    i would like to think it is unequivocally a responsibility of all drivers, that they are always prepared for the possibility of finding something immobile on the roadway, and able to not run into or over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    25928 DSG equipped cars were recalled here because, in VAG's own words “an electronic malfunction in the control unit inside the gearbox mechatronics may result in a power interruption”.
    yes, a problem which as i read it was subsequently fully corrected. ie after 2008.

    as a separate comment unrelated to the above, i dont think the DSG is correctly called an automatic gearbox. it is a dual clutch gearbox with electronic shift, right? ie the sort of gearbox now installed in all ultra high end sports GTs because it really does enhance the driving experience (by most people's standards, anyway)

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    25928 DSG equipped cars were recalled here because, in VAG's own words “an electronic malfunction in the control unit inside the gearbox mechatronics may result in a power interruption”.
    So ?

    What happens when any other computer controlled car goes into limp mode ?

    Or if an Al4 chooses not to select the optimum gear and serve up a "greasy fit"
    - there pages of such instances recorded on Af

    "Losing power" is not a uniquely VAG issue.
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    An auto in limp mode still produces power. I once drove the full length of the South Coast in limp mode. The frustration came at Mt Ousley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    An auto in limp mode still produces power. I once drove the full length of the South Coast in limp mode. The frustration came at Mt Ousley.
    I would suggest it depends very much the reason for going into "limp".

    I've seen cars that refuse to select gears.

    IMO There is simply not enough data available to make definitive findings.

    And your avid dislike of VAG vehicles is well known and does nothing to improve objectivity in this discussion.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


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    avid dislike of VAG
    A bit of an exaggeration. I haven't been tempted even a little to buy one is true. I haven't been tempted to own lots of brands.

    The AL4 is no longer in the new range. The EAT6 auto from Japan is mated to the 3 cylinder engines.

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