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Thread: France investigating Renault for possible emissions fraud

  1. #51
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    But we all know the French are above reproach in their integrity.

    So nothing will be proven to be amiss and the whole scandal is limited to those bad arse Germans.

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    not.....



    And a few very vocal Afers may have to eat their words and some humble pie to boot.
    There is only one Automotive Producer who has been found to have been deliberately cheating the emissions system, amd we all know who that is! It is common knowledge that many vehicles emit higher emissions when on the highway than when tested for compliance, but that has nothing to do with cheating, rather simply meeting the specifications as written, something VGA decided was too hard or that they could deliberately evade by using cheat software. I'll be surprised if anyone else gets caught for deliberately cheating, but if they are, bad luck for them.
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  2. #52
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    There is only one Automotive Producer who has been found to have been deliberately cheating the emissions system, amd we all know who that is!
    At the present time. I wouldn't care to speculate if there are other manufacturers in the same boat.

    So, in the fullness time, we are likely to find out.

    At which stage I'll let you (and many others) review their comments. And focus your vitriol on the most recent miscreants, if any
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  3. #53
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    At the present time. I wouldn't care to speculate if there are other manufacturers in the same boat.

    So, in the fullness time, we are likely to find out.

    At which stage I'll let you (and many others) review their comments. And focus your vitriol on the most recent miscreants, if any
    The VW scandal was announced on 3rd September 2015. A sensational admission of guilt by a major manufacturer. The intervening period would/should have given every interested party a fair amount of time to acquire evidence of cheating by ANY or ALL other manufacturers.
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  4. #54
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    So what is this intended to mean ?

    Are you suggesting the French are totally without fault ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    There is only one Automotive Producer who has been found to have been deliberately cheating the emissions system, amd we all know who that is!
    Nissan found guilty of using diesel emissions cheat device in South Korea

    Nissan has denied any wrongdoing, but the South Korean government has ruled the Renault-built 1.6-litre diesel engine cheated emissions tests

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/nissan-found-guilty-using-diesel-emissions-cheat-device-south-korea

  6. #56
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Kim,

    I'll humbly accept your apology.
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  7. #57
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    Personally I am assuming the situation in South Korea does not involve real cheat software. Despite of the claim it is inconsistent with findings elsewhere.

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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    So what is this intended to mean ?

    Are you suggesting the French are totally without fault ?
    I'm suggesting that a German auto maker, on it's own and with deliberate intent, set out to produce better performance for it's vehicles by using software that could tell when an emissions test was being run so that their emissions complied with that test but did not when the vehicle was moving and not stationary. The software was written specifically to cheat the system

    Other manufacturers and I don't care who they are have software that allows them to pass the emissions tests and continue to keep passing them even if the vehicle is not under test and moving, providing that the parameters are the same. When the goalposts shift, they might emit more, but there is no cheating involved.

    By the way, "so-called real world" tests as specified by the Koreans are nothing like the tests which the emissions standards require, so in spite of Korea's bleating, they have not come up with anything new applicable to Nissan or anyone else.
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  9. #59
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Kim,

    I'll humbly accept your apology.
    The story is the same kind of bull that came out of Europe earlier and has no substance, in spite of it being proposed by a government desperate to protect it's indigenous industry..........................Nissan are right, or they would be in every court in the world they sell their cars in, and they are certainly fighting in Korea!
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  10. #60
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Further to my recent posts, it transpires that the diesel powered 1.6l Nissan Qashqai was in fact certified by none other than the Korean Ministry of Environment who were totally aware of the 35 degree cut-off when it was certified. A major reason that Nissan is sticking to it's guns!
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    Germany, Italy may block anti-Dieselgate measures

    Germany is opposed to greater EU oversight in how cars approved, despite the Dieselgate experience (
    By PETER TEFFER

    BRUSSELS, TODAY, 06:10

    There is a blocking minority in one of the EU's legislators which can stop increased oversight at EU level in the area of car approvals, EUobserver has learned.

    According to an internal document of the Council, where national governments meet, at least 12 member states are opposed to the European Commission's proposal to have more powers to test cars independently.

    The commission proposed more EU oversight to prevent a repeat of the Dieselgate scandal, but the document showed that large member states like Germany, Italy, and the United Kingdom oppose it.
    Together with several smaller member states, they constitute a blocking minority. The commission's plan needs the approval from both the Council and the European Parliament before it can become law.

    The contents of the internal document, a questionnaire filled out by most member states, was first reported by Brussels-based consumer lobby group Beuc.

    “Several member states are failing to address the deep rooted problems associated with the Dieselgate scandal and are risking derailing current efforts to reform the system of approving and checking cars in Europe,” the non-profit group said in a statement.

    The document, dated 25 November 2016, was also seen by EUobserver, and it looked authentic.

    Its contents were corroborated by an official, publicly available Council document.


    A note from the Maltese presidency of the Council, to be presented to ministers next week, said that “a significant number of delegations continue to express serious doubts” about greater EU oversight.

    The presidency added that the proposed creation of a forum that could exchange information on how emissions compliance is enforced was also contentious.

    “Delegations are divided between those who consider the Forum as an information exchange platform and those who conceive it as an enforcement tool,” it said.

    There was also still no common position in the Council on the idea of national type-approval authorities, responsible for approving cars, conducting peer reviews.

    “Member states are divided between those that see it as a contribution to an increased uniform enforcement of the rules and those that reject it on the grounds that it would create unjustified administrative burden,” it said.

    The opposition among several member states towards greater EU oversight, despite the Dieselgate scandal, was also referred to by EU industry commissioner Elzbieta Bienkowska recently.

    “I generally see no shift of attitude in the industry, but also unfortunately in the member states' authorities in this matter,” she told MEPs who investigated the scandal, last week.

    The parliament's inquiry committee into Dieselgate, and reports by this website, indicated that Volkswagen's emissions cheating with diesel passenger cars may have been detected earlier, and may have been found in the EU instead of in the US, if there had been an independent authority.

    The process of approving cars is still a very national affair, with carmakers often receiving certifications in countries where they also have a large stake in the local economy.

  12. #62
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Further to my recent posts, it transpires that the diesel powered 1.6l Nissan Qashqai was in fact certified by none other than the Korean Ministry of Environment who were totally aware of the 35 degree cut-off when it was certified. A major reason that Nissan is sticking to it's guns!
    I'd like to see your source.

    I'm seeing different info from a number of other sources. And there was a fine issued as a result of the court case.

    Nissan Qashqai has emissions testing defeat device says South Korean court

    Nocookies | The Australian

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ni...-idUSKCN0Y7045


    And is denial by Nissan is not hard evidence that they didn't "cheat".

    Just as the jails are full of "innocent" people.

    Watch that other foot Kim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I'd like to see your source.

    I'm seeing different info from a number of other sources. And there was a fine issued as a result of the court case.
    my observation on this issue: so far, a "defeat device" has been a label put on software which detects when a car is being tested and changes its parameters. plainly, that is quite a different matter to simply having a different temperature threshold for a known technical reason, to that chosen by other manufacturers. all the more if, as i suspect is the case, that temperature threshold is not specified in any government regulation.

    i also note that this has only come up because the SK gov has just started 'real world' testing. how could that setting be a 'defeat device' when there was previously no test done which it would defeat?

    this seems to be SK being bloody minded.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I'd like to see your source.

    South Korea calls for Nissan to face charges over emissions

    Noting in the text above:

    "This vehicle
    (the Qashqai) was certified by the Korean government last year under regulations permitting the importation and sales of vehicles that comply with these emission standards.

    Want more South Korean earth shattering news concerning other manufacturers who don't appear to be passing their strange "Real World" tests.....

    South Korea bans sales of some Nissan, BMW and Porsche models | Reuters

    Nissan Qashqai Banned From South Korea for Emissions Cheating; BMW and Porsche are Also Involved - Torque News

    Robmac, I think you will find that the whole issue of South Korea comes down to bloody-minded cussedness on the part of their authorities who are trying to justify their usefulness with a test regime that exists no-where else on earth.

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    But it is not a 'defeat device', i.e. the Qashqai does not have software that manipulates the emissions when the vehicle is under test.
    There is no cheating involved as the South Korean authorities were told of the parameters used before the testing and they passed the vehicle at the time. The South Korean government has now moved the goal posts (or added goal posts that weren't there before) and is now saying the vehicle does not pass.
    This is a million miles away from VAG and their defeat devices.
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    France 24 hour news is reporting that Renault management is being investigated for long term emission fraud,2 current models under
    investigation and said it has being going on for 25 years,,Glosen said it is crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by denxm View Post
    France 24 hour news is reporting that Renault management is being investigated for long term emission fraud,2 current models under
    investigation and said it has being going on for 25 years,,Glosen said it is crap.
    Well God say it is crap so that's the end of that !!
    Jaahn

  18. #68
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    Of course, Goshen could have been "misled" by those dishonest engineers.
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  19. #69
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    there isnt anything essentially new here.
    the "fraud" is misleading the public by passing the government mandated tests, when in real world conditions the cars dont get the same results. which is already well known and applies to every diesel car in europe from all manufacturers. i would call the investigation a fraud too, but that is just me.

    Renault : des voitures option pollution incluse - Libération
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  20. #70
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    Well, I'll be hornswoggled, is this old news, or more news, and does it involve the same people.....dated 02/06/17?

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-f...042147546.html
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