The VW effect in France
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Default The VW effect in France

    There are questions being asked as to whether other diesel car makers used a similar approach to testing. Linked to this, PSA shares have dropped nearly 14% and Renault also 14% in four days. The French government has started an enquiry while the British government has asked Brussels to act. Share markets are volatile at the moment and rumours abound.

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    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Thanks Gerry for the update.
    I think it's only a matter of time before other manufacturers are caught in the net.
    Nissan has a big footprint in the US; and they rely heavily on Renault sooters.

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    I think Gerry said "Rumours abound" . At this stage, despite the stupidity of investors, that is all they are.
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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    and todays rumour is that Bosch provided the software in 2007 and had warned VW it was illegal to use it in cars on the road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 404 View Post
    Thanks Gerry for the update.
    I think it's only a matter of time before other manufacturers are caught in the net.
    Nissan has a big footprint in the US; and they rely heavily on Renault sooters.

    Dave
    I'm not aware of any Nissan oil burners sold in the market here. We are slow to adopt. Largely because diesel lower here has usually been associated with slow.

    /ducks

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    The authorities say that there are over a million vehicles sold by the VW group affected in France. The German press seems pretty convinced that Bosch provided the software.
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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    and todays rumour is that Bosch provided the software in 2007 and had warned VW it was illegal to use it in cars on the road.
    Ass covering in all directions. Where will it end?
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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Don't overlook the possibility it true. After all, Bosch manufacture the ECUs for VW.
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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    That is past a rumour and is accepted as the truth. It is said that the software was created for internal factory testing and VW was warned that it was not for use in delivered cars. That's a murkier area and no doubt, the many external enquiries and legal actions in train will tease out the exact history.
    Nothing has emerged yet to suggest that other engine mnufacturers followed the same path other than pure rumour.
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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    September 2015 was a good month for new car registrations in France. Curiously in light of the above, The VW group showed the strongest growth among the imports.
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    well, they do make good power considering the emission regs ...

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    Thing is they DIDN'T consider the emission regs, won't go as well after the software is changed to comply.
    A lot of unhappy owners once this is done.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    well, they do make good power considering the emission regs ...
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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Thing is they DIDN'T consider the emission regs, won't go as well after the software is changed to comply.
    A lot of unhappy owners once this is done.
    I doubt it. Wtf would someone buy a diesel if performance was a major criteria.

    From what I can ascertain the main reason people buy diesels is 1) lower fuel costs and 2) A good Sales number by the salesperson spruiking they are "eco friendly."
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    In VW's home market of Germany, where 2.8 million of the 11 million affected diesel cars are on the road, the government's transport agency, the KBA, has set an Oct. 7 deadline for the company to present a plan to bring diesel emissions into line with the law, Bild newspaper reported.

    If VW fails to satisfy the authorities, the KBA will withdraw type approval for the cars involved, which means they can no longer be sold or driven, Bild said.
    http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...n-up-plan-soon

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Wow - thats significant. So much for the plans of diesel owners to avoid the software update!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    That is past a rumour and is accepted as the truth. It is said that the software was created for internal factory testing and VW was warned that it was not for use in delivered cars. That's a murkier area and no doubt, the many external enquiries and legal actions in train will tease out the exact history.
    Nothing has emerged yet to suggest that other engine mnufacturers followed the same path other than pure rumour.
    I'd add that the legal might of VW shouldn't need Bosch to tell them it would be illegal on vehicles sold to the public. I'm sure it makes a lot of sense for engine development work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I doubt it. Wtf would someone buy a diesel if performance was a major criteria.

    From what I can ascertain the main reason people buy diesels is 1) lower fuel costs and 2) A good Sales number by the salesperson spruiking they are "eco friendly."
    That's interesting. They go like stink, pretty well every turbo diesel I've driven, starting with a Fraud in UK on work once, a Hyundai in central Europe and a couple in Oz in the last 3-4 years. I'd have bought one for the performance myself. Still, most of us deviate from the norm I imagine.
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    JohnW

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    WLB
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    Has Lister been implicated yet? Could explain all the black smoke I get while it's coming up to speed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WLB View Post
    Has Lister been implicated yet? Could explain all the black smoke I get while it's coming up to speed.
    Do you mean one of these? Somehow I've never imagined a Lister engine powering a car!

    The VW effect in France-lister_xo_sn_56434_of_1926_20_hp_at_lister_tyndale_09_-_img_4631.jpg

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    Sorry - just realised you were talking about a diesel Lister - no-one would be so silly as to put the petrol engine above into a car

    The VW effect in France-lister-diesel.jpg

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    That's interesting. They go like stink, pretty well every turbo diesel I've driven, starting with a Fraud in UK on work once, a Hyundai in central Europe and a couple in Oz in the last 3-4 years. I'd have bought one for the performance myself. Still, most of us deviate from the norm I imagine.
    It's a relative thing. I could say every TSI (Petrol) I've driven "goes like stink" too and doesn't leave around 20% of it's particulate emissions in the atmosphere.

    To each his own I'd say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    It's a relative thing. I could say every TSI (Petrol) I've driven "goes like stink" too
    Agh, You've never driven a hilman minx semi automatic then.

    Jo
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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Agh, You've never driven a hilman minx semi automatic then.

    Jo
    I guess it depends what your definition of goes likes "goes like stink" is. Maybe John W has a rather liberal interpretation.

    My definition is, for a submini or small hatch is to achieve 0-100k very close to the 7 second mark and have Power to weight greater than 100w/kg.

    I'd also observe that nearly all manufacturers present their high performance models with petrol engines, Clio RS, Megane RS, Peugeot 308 gti . These are vehicles that truly "go like stink".
    Last edited by robmac; 5th October 2015 at 11:51 AM.
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    A couple of points...
    Nitrous oxide emissions aren't "particulate" any more than Carbon monoxide or Carbon dioxide.
    In my case choosing a (turbo) diesel had nothing to do with
    1) lower fuel costs and 2) A good Sales number by the salesperson spruiking they are "eco friendly."
    Rather, as we tow a (French)veteran car to interstate rallies the nature of the torque delivery over a wide rpm range was important.
    And since we've had the T5, diesel price has for most of the time been greater than petrol.
    I'm going to market "Pardon my NOx" bumper stickers: should be a big seller
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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Yep point taken about nox, co and c02. However these emissions, in the concentrations emitted, largely affect the planet (or haven't affected the planet) depending on your persuasions.

    Particulate emissions get up front and nasty with human respiratory tract. And dpfs don't entirely remove them. That's why I don't favor diesels.

    And yes, there are always exceptions to a general rule. And towing is such a situation.

    As an aside, I recall the original thrust of the discussion was "buying a diesel for performance reason" and towing hardly fits that category.
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