The VW effect in France - Page 2
  • Register
  • Help
Page 2 of 8 First 123456 ... Last
Results 26 to 50 of 194
Like Tree68Likes

Thread: The VW effect in France

  1. #26
    WLB
    WLB is offline
    Fellow Frogger! WLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Warragul, Vic.
    Posts
    985

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    Sorry - just realised you were talking about a diesel Lister - no-one would be so silly as to put the petrol engine above into a car
    Not being able to close the bonnet has cooling benefits. (You were almost right the first time. I've got the diesel version of the first photo, and the air-cooled 2nd one)

    Advertisement

  2. #27
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    15,607

    Default

    The last time I saw one of these , in petrol form, was powering a cement mixer and that was around 53 years ago.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  3. #28
    WLB
    WLB is offline
    Fellow Frogger! WLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Warragul, Vic.
    Posts
    985

    Default

    I've never seen one. I suspect it may be a kero engine. They start on petrol then you switch over to power kero. I've only seen the smaller ones by Ronaldson & Tippett, and Roseberry.

  4. #29
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    My father had two - both single cylinder petrol engines (unlike the green one above, which is a twin), and both ran on petrol only.

    Both were water cooled, but the water was circulated through a tank instead of a radiator.

    One powered the 4-stand shearing shed, so only got a few weeks work per year. The other drove a 32 volt generator, which supplied power to two houses from the early '50s untl the late '60s (when 240v mains power was connected by the North-West County Council).

    The engine in the woolshed drove mechanical handpieces via overhead gear like this:

    The VW effect in France-overhead-shearing-gear.jpg

    A wide leather belt transferred power from the engine flywheel to the central shaft.

    Unfortunately both went in clearing sales...

    Cheers

    Alec

    PS - The Fordson tractor started on petrol, then was switched to kerosene when warmed up. To hasten warmup on cold mornings there was a metal louvre in front of the radiator, which was opened and closed via a crank-handle
    Kenfuego likes this.

  5. #30
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,445

    Default

    Diesel car emissions vs Diesel truck, bus and train emissions?.....look at the highway sometime, and if it emissions per litre the car factor would be minimal vs heavy transport.
    Kenfuego likes this.

  6. #31
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    15,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartb View Post
    Diesel car emissions vs Diesel truck, bus and train emissions?.....look at the highway sometime, and if it emissions per litre the car factor would be minimal vs heavy transport.
    That is no reason not to minimize emissions. Because others are mercilessly polluting those who are responsible and aware shouldn't follow blindly.
    Armidillo likes this.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  7. #32
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,445

    Default

    I didn't for one second suggest or imply that....we could follow your argument to petrol engines too, as they are hardly the bastion of eco-friendliness or low emissions, or efficiency. I wonder if we follow the whole trail through the refinery process as well how the whole picture stacks up. At the moment diesel cars are an easy target.

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    That is no reason not to minimize emissions. Because others are mercilessly polluting those who are responsible and aware shouldn't follow blindly.
    Kenfuego likes this.

  8. #33
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Bungendore NSW
    Posts
    443

    Default

    What is the fuss about? I understand that the software just came into play when the cars were being driven economically. To me that means you get more bang for your buck when it isn't being driven "economically" and as most drivers don't drive like labotatory nerds a big "so what" to the media doomsday profits (who are all about sensationalism not news anyway............).

    FLASH

  9. #34
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    15,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartb View Post
    I didn't for one second suggest or imply that....we could follow your argument to petrol engines too, as they are hardly the bastion of eco-friendliness or low emissions, or efficiency. I wonder if we follow the whole trail through the refinery process as well how the whole picture stacks up. At the moment diesel cars are an easy target.
    I believe this aspect has been mentioned before. Diesels, both with and without DPFs emit particulates. Where as petrol engines tend to emit CO, CO2 and smaller amounts of NOX.

    I've never claimed that petrol engines are free of harmful emissions. Simply that I, personally choose not to drive or own diesel powered vehicles. And that modern, well engineered petrol passenger vehicle engines can match torque figures for diesel vehicles built for this market.

    Diesel particulates are simply part and parcel of the process of refining crude oil. Lower boiling point distillates all suffer the same emission issue when burnt.

    I'll leave others to do a rational, clinical analysis of the pros and cons of diesel versus petrol.

    However at the present time, the fundamental science behind fractional distillation is sufficient for me to form, my own, personal opinion.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  10. #35
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,445

    Default

    My 307 diesel does 60+mpg or 4.4l /100k .....emissions per litre vs petrol? Longevity of motor vs petrol. Energy required to manufacture etc etc, I'd say its a fairly level playing field and diesels are being hammered at the moment because of the VW scandal.
    Kenfuego likes this.

  11. #36
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,445

    Default

    One wonders if they can put out low emissions under certain conditions, is it merely the quest for that bit of extra power that stops them from doing the low emissions all the time? They are obviously capable of it, and as diesels overheat if running rich its hardly likely to be a problem running them leaner of whatever the software did. Me personally Id be quite happy to sacrifice power for lower emissions and better fuel economy anyday.

  12. #37
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    15,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartb View Post
    My 307 diesel does 60+mpg or 4.4l /100k .....emissions per litre vs petrol? Longevity of motor vs petrol. Energy required to manufacture etc etc, I'd say its a fairly level playing field and diesels are being hammered at the moment because of the VW scandal.
    You are of course free to have to your own opinion. I have a petrol vehicle that gives 5.0 l/100 k. So the diesel consumption is nothing special for a modern engine.

    In fact .9 L ULP Clio gives better fuel consumption (4.5). And the 1.2 L ULP Clio a fraction more (5.2) so yours is not an extra ordinary fuel consumption.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  13. #38
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,445

    Default

    Wow, thanks for allowing me to have an opinion, even if its obviously wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    You are of course free to have to your own opinion. I have a petrol vehicle that gives 5.0 l/100 k. So the diesel consumption is nothing special for a modern engine.

    In fact .9 L ULP Clio gives better fuel consumption (4.5). And the 1.2 L ULP Clio a fraction more (5.2) so yours is not an extra ordinary fuel consumption.

  14. #39
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    15,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartb View Post
    Wow, thanks for allowing me to have an opinion, even if its obviously wrong
    If the cap fit then wear it. Your words not mine.

    Neither irony or sarcasm is argument.
    Samuel Butler
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  15. #40
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    10,100

    Icon13 If the cap fits wear it? Anti diesel V diesel unnecessary argument?

    My reading of the VW controversy is that VW chose to avoid fitting an extra component to their engine that if fitted would nullify any harmful level of emission from their Turbo Diesel engines, just as other manufacturers have done and that action would have kept the engine within the proper/permitted emissions as tested.

    They apparently chose not to add that extra cost (three hundred dollars odd?) and instead relied upon the factory configuration of the supplied testing componentry that enabled their vehicle to circumvent the EPA testing regime. That is their choice and it is yet to be seen if they will bear the full weight of the various environmental laws and penalties, or will there be some lessor negotiated settlement?

    For this situation to be used as some fact or example to run a mine is better, (whatever) (however) sh*te fight is probably the resort of idiotic intent and bloody mindedness. All vehicles until proven otherwise are sold and bought by owners to suit their own purposes and requirements and all of course were approved for sale under Australian Standards and carefully selected for economy, suitability for purpose, and resale value, and owners justifiably defend their choice, and that might extend to carrying capacity, appearance and style and yes in the pleasure of ownership.

    I enjoy my road registered cars and I would not like to see anyone attack them, or criticize me for my choice or brand me as irresponsible for my lawful choice, especially not based on someone else's belief system! If they are kept in excellent condition, well maintained with all anti pollution plumbing working to the permitted design of the day, and that is how it should be - many don't do that of course and it is up the authorities to police what is permitted and what is not.

    Having a P*ssing contest between motor car owners is ridiculous and can only be carried out as some sort of egotistical extension of a badly biased personality and certainly not the perfect person that is projected as the result of the argument. I guess this just takes us back to a different level where a cycle rider claims their ride if environmentally responsible and non polluting but the same person will be happy to fly anywhere in the world for a political gabfest on their taxpayers dollar as long as it doesn't cost them one of their own dollars.

    I operate an economical set of cars, the Laguna is comfortable, mechanically well maintained and runs and tows if required, but if you use 98 RON petrol, it is more expensive petrol price wise per Kilometre travelled than the Diesel Megane which is by far more economical per kilometre, both vehicles are permitted to be used by the authorities, so that is the end of the story. My Fuego is not so economical in terms of consumption per KM and still uses 98 RON, but for the Kilometres travelled it is enjoyed and costs nothing other than registration and Insurance for the enormous enjoyment of driving pleasure, and I appreciate that also.

    I don't claim mine is bigger than yours as that has nothing to do with the present VW dodging of environmental tests, most of it just comes back to hip pocket costs and integrity of choices where this actual saga commenced for Volkswagen.

    The incredible thing is that VW would do this when the potential for damage to the brand was there, for the sake of such a small investment per engine, but then it seems some can be seduced by illegal gambles and increased profits if brand integrity has no real meaning.

    Lets stop p*ssing into the wind, the result is not nice unless you get some strange sensual pleasure in the result.

    Ken
    stuartb and jaahn like this.

  16. #41
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    15,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    My reading of the VW controversy is that VW chose to avoid fitting an extra component to their engine that if fitted would nullify any harmful level of emission from their Turbo Diesel engines, just as other manufacturers have done and that action would have kept the engine within the proper/permitted emissions as tested.

    They apparently chose not to add that extra cost (three hundred dollars odd?) and instead relied upon the factory configuration of the supplied testing componentry that enabled their vehicle to circumvent the EPA testing regime. That is their choice and it is yet to be seen if they will bear the full weight of the various environmental laws and penalties, or will their be some lessor negotiated settlement?

    For this situation to be used as some fact or example to run a mine is better, (whatever) (however) sh*te fight is probably the resort of idiotic intent and bloody mindedness. All vehicles until proven otherwise are sold and bought by owners to suit their own purposes and requirements and all of course were approved for sale under Australian Standards and carefully selected for economy, suitability for purpose, and resale value, and owners justifiably defend their choice, and that might extend to carrying capacity, appearance and style and yes in the pleasure of ownership.

    I enjoy my road registered cars and I would not like to see anyone attack them, or criticize me for my choice or brand me as irresponsible for my lawful choice, especially not based on someone else's belief system if they are kept in excellent condition, well maintained with all anti pollution plumbing working to the permitted design of the day, and that is how it should be - many don't do that of course and it is up the authorities to police what is permitted and what is not.

    Having a P*ssing contest between motor car owners is ridiculous and can only be carried out as some sort of egotistical extension of a badly biased personality and certainly not the perfect person that is projected as the result of the argument. I guess this just takes us back to a different level where a cycle rider claims their ride if environmentally responsible and non polluting but the same person will be happy to fly anywhere in the world for a political gabfest on their taxpayers dollar as long as it doesn't cost them one of their own dollars.

    I operate an economical set of cars, the Laguna is comfortable, mechanically well maintained and runs and tows if required, but if you use 98 RON petrol, it is more expensive petrol price wise per Kilometre travelled than the Diesel Megane which is by far more economical per kilometre, both vehicles are permitted to be used by the authorities, so that is the end of the story. My Fuego is not so economical in terms of consumption per KM and still uses 98 RON, but for the Kilometres travelled it is enjoyed and costs nothing other than registration and Insurance for the enormous enjoyment of driving pleasure, and I appreciate that also.

    I don't claim mine is bigger than yours as that has nothing to do with the present VW dodging of environmental tests, most of it just comes back to hip pocket costs and integrity of choices where this actual saga commenced for Volkswagen.

    The incredible thing is that VW would do this when the potential for damage to the brand was there, for the sake of such a small investment per engine, but then it seems some can be seduced by illegal gambles and increased profits if brand integrity has no real meaning.

    Lets stop p*ssing into the wind, the result is not nice unless you get some strange sensual pleasure in the result.

    Ken
    It's your prerogative to drive any vehicle you see fit. However others may not necessarily share your views.

    It's a real shame you choose to label a rational discussion as "pissing in the wind". And label those who choose have the discussion as having personality flaws.

    A more effective response may be to provide, concise and scientific explanation of your objections.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  17. #42
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,445

    Default

    Now I remember why I haven't been here for years...I'll stick to gearbox questions from now on. Bye
    Kenfuego likes this.

  18. #43
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    15,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartb View Post
    Now I remember why I haven't been here for years...I'll stick to gearbox questions from now on. Bye
    We should be too big to take offense and too noble to give it.
    Abraham Lincoln
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  19. #44
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,445

    Default

    We should give a rats arse about playing ping-pong on an internet forum with someone who makes an artform out of continually taking what people say as a challenge to disagree with them. ...Stuartb
    I made a simple statement about diesel emissions from cars being relatively miniscule to that from heavy transport and off you go
    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    We should be too big to take offense and too noble to give it.
    Abraham Lincoln

  20. #45
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    15,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartb View Post
    We should give a rats arse about playing ping-pong on an internet forum with someone who makes an artform out of continually taking what people say as a challenge to disagree with them. ...Stuartb
    I made a simple statement about diesel emissions from cars being relatively miniscule to that from heavy transport and off you go
    If presenting an alternative line of discussion/ perspective can be defined as "off you go" then indeed I did.

    On the other hand, if I presented my own (strongly held) views and reasons for having them, then I did this as well.

    I would respectfully suggest that it may be best not initiate a discussion in the first place if all you wish hear back are you own views emboldened and agreed with.

    Because Forums are all about discussions and evaluating other people's views.

    I apologize in advance in you consider this post another "off you go"

    And just to clarify I do not and never had intended to upset you.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  21. #46
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    8,765

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I guess it depends what your definition of goes likes "goes like stink" is. Maybe John W has a rather liberal interpretation.

    My definition is, for a submini or small hatch is to achieve 0-100k very close to the 7 second mark and have Power to weight greater than 100w/kg.

    I'd also observe that nearly all manufacturers present their high performance models with petrol engines, Clio RS, Megane RS, Peugeot 308 gti . These are vehicles that truly "go like stink".
    In fairness, you are probably right about my liberal interpretation! I just loved the torque and the get up and go in every turbo diesel I've driven. They didn't rev out much at all. All were (or seemed) much faster than anything we've owned - our BX TZi being by far the fastest of our cars over the years. But boy they were good performers in my terms.

    My view now, driving and observing a few new or fairly new cars over the last year or two, is different and I'd not buy a diesel now, petrol engines being what they are these days. My post said "I'd have bought one", that being past tense.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  22. #47
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    8,765

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartb View Post
    We should give a rats arse about playing ping-pong on an internet forum with someone who makes an artform out of continually taking what people say as a challenge to disagree with them. ...Stuartb
    I made a simple statement about diesel emissions from cars being relatively miniscule to that from heavy transport and off you go
    Did you mean "should not"?

    Hope you don't go away FWIW!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  23. #48
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    sydney, australia
    Posts
    11,356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartb View Post
    One wonders if they can put out low emissions under certain conditions, is it merely the quest for that bit of extra power that stops them from doing the low emissions all the time? They are obviously capable of it, and as diesels overheat if running rich its hardly likely to be a problem running them leaner of whatever the software did. Me personally Id be quite happy to sacrifice power for lower emissions and better fuel economy anyday.
    yes, they are definitely capable of running within the regulations. after all, they were doing so when the defeat software switched on, so the cars pass emissions tests.

  24. #49
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    15,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    In fairness, you are probably right about my liberal interpretation! I just loved the torque and the get up and go in every turbo diesel I've driven. They didn't rev out much at all. All were (or seemed) much faster than anything we've owned - our BX TZi being by far the fastest of our cars over the years. But boy they were good performers in my terms.

    My view now, driving and observing a few new or fairly new cars over the last year or two, is different and I'd not buy a diesel now, petrol engines being what they are these days. My post said "I'd have bought one", that being past tense.
    Funny you should say that I'm pretty sold on petrol engine for the same reason.

    And the curves show the 125kw version and not 132kw version which we own.

    The VW effect in France-power-torque.jpg

    I think perhaps, the gaps between petrol and diesel engine torque is closing, aided by technology.
    Last edited by robmac; 5th October 2015 at 10:43 PM.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  25. #50
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    North Parramatta
    Posts
    3,758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartb View Post
    My 307 diesel does 60+mpg or 4.4l /100k .....emissions per litre vs petrol? Longevity of motor vs petrol. Energy required to manufacture etc etc, I'd say its a fairly level playing field and diesels are being hammered at the moment because of the VW scandal.
    What are the NOx emissions your diesel 307 produces, compared to the petrol equivalent?

    The whole diesel argument (ie. the current VW "crisis") has nothing to do with mpg.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2014 208 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

Page 2 of 8 First 123456 ... Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •