watch this video if u care about speed limits in aus
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Thread: watch this video if u care about speed limits in aus

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Icon14 watch this video if u care about speed limits in aus

    https://youtu.be/BWXM6PiXrVw

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    I think that the 85th percentile concept is correct and workable. My trip down the Princes Hwy today revealed most drivers cruising at speeds between 110 and 120 km/h with a good few at much more than that. No prangs en-route in either direction, I'm happy to report, and this goes on every day and night between Melbourne and all points east.
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    I didn't day that......
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    i dont see why he has to take a stab at engineers...

    look at german speed limits. They are the gods of engineering.
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    A lot of enforcement of speeding in Victoria evolved around the 85th percentile, in general in those days police would not book an offender for exceeding the posted speed limit unless the driver was exceeding the nominal safe speed that the road was carrying, using common sense and judgment, thus the emphasis was on targeting the driver who grossly exceeded speed limits, also for the driver the emphasis was on driving according to the road conditions as this would effect the 85th percentile and adjusting speed to maintain safe distances from the car in front and the car behind.

    There were a couple of things that upset this common sense approach, the wheatie packet driver licence era where testers were told to pass unsafe drivers who completed a memory test set of multiple choice answer and were lucky enough to pick the low percentage required, then the bean counters became involved when speed cameras were introduced and proved that cutting tolerances and scrapping the 85th percentile road speed evaluation would mean more revenue and less not more police presence on the roads, and speed became an obsession - didn't matter that there weren't enough police to catch the reckless speeders, and speed cameras were not smart or able to apprehend the worst drivers there and then, but the reliance on revenue and advertising slogans meant people stopped considering road conditions and safe driving practices, you watched your speedo, wiped off 5 kph and you WERE a good driver, didn't matter if you had any perception of safety, closing speeds, changing conditions to suit weather.

    So you had driver tgravelling at what they thought was 95 kph, but because the speedo on their car was actually 10 percent below that and most of our connecting highways are single lane carriageways, these safe driver caused massive blockages as they drove at an actual speed of 90 to 94 kph, then other drivers slavishly observing the speed limits could only pass slowly in the rare places where there were overtaking lanes or very long straight stretches, to the wipe off five drivers 100 kph was very fast and a percentage were prone to exceed lower residential speed limits (check this for yourself) so wonderful for revenue too, especially hidden cameras.

    The whole Psychology changed, hoons could do what they liked, no police presence to catch them and they were smart enough to know where cameras were placed or the limitation on placement, open slather and if they did kill as they sped, good examples to use in road safety speed kills campaigns.

    The advent of cruise controls and also GPS fitted to double check/warn of speeds has been a boon for the law abiding motorists, but then again do those motorists understand the need to adjust overall speed to conditions of the roadway, weather, dealing with oncoming lights in inclement weather or is dodging a fine for creeping over an arbitrary limit the principle life saving deal, when so many serious issues arise that require good judgement, and driving skill. Not to mention overcoming fatigue and taking rest breaks when driving long distances.

    Then consider our drivers in other countries used to driving at much higher speeds with better honed skills. expectations and road competence, who strangely never drive ON the speed limit, but vary their driving with the weather conditions, and they can even drive in weather conditions we would never imagine.

    Step back and wait for the barrage... from the safety experts...

    Ken
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    Iceberg205Mi16 seems to be related to the propagandist who got deleted earlier today.

    Ken, today I drove on the M2 motorway through suburban Sydney - obviously a very safe road (doing 100 kph in very light traffic). I spotted no fewer than six radar wallopers conducting highway robbery in one direction, and three in the other. All were well hidden in roadside bushland or behind Jersey walls. No signs present. Why would anyone believe their bulls**t, when collecting their wages is all they really care about?
    Last edited by seasink; 13th May 2015 at 10:52 PM. Reason: sp

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    Icon10 ?? sock it to them.

    [QUOTE=seasink;1352176]Iceberg205Mi16 seems to be related to the propagandist who got deleted earlier today.

    QUOTE]

    Is that an alien sock puppet, or a sock puppet alien?? I've heard of those, they roam the highways ?? Worse than I thought.

    Yes, traps set on good well defined roadways with no real reason, do not help the normal law abiding motorist, but they do collect dollars. Funny thing is that motorists who for one reason or another drift over such a speed limit momentarily they pay their fines promptly, hence the emphasis on catching the inadvertent, the others travelling at excessive speeds fight tooth and nail using every legal dodge - so you have speeding laws said to be there to prevent the worst examples, actually making money from the drivers they weren't targeting, SNAFU.

    Ken
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    Interesting that in Germany one can't get a licence until one has proved ( among other things ) the ability to drive at around 160k on the Autobahn

    In Oz if one does this they call one a hoon and sin-bin the car

    In Finland one has to show 6 hours of driving sideways on a skid pan ( among other things )

    In Oz if one drives sideways one is labelled as a hoon and the car is sin binned


    My normal cruising speed in Germany is 160-220. When overtaking it is quite important to check in the mirror ( an unusual skill for an Oz driver !), as there might well be people coming through in the overtaking lane ( used ONLY for overtaking, by law ) at 250 plus. It works and they don't kill any more people than we do. Standard of driving MUCH higher than ours.

    50% of Autobahns are unrestricted, but they commonly have stretches with conditional speed limits in the wet - they are signed "100 , bei nasse" ( in the wet ). The person who has been doing 250 will slow down and obey it.

    Similarly, in towns the limits are lower (30-50 commonly ). The Porsche-ist who has been doing 250 will generally obey these, as there is a logic to them and they are enforced.

    In Victoria the old "prima facie " limit which was changed in the early 70's required the police to turn up to court and make the case that one had done something dangerous, the driver had to make the case that it was not. They tended to issue warnings and to police only the more egregious examples, so as not to spend all day in court.

    Similarly when driving in the UK in the 80's ( no longer the case ) they didn't have "on the spot" fines - one had to turn up to court and the police had to make their case. This again introduced a degree of selectivity and a focus on the more egregious examples ( they were more interested in tailgating, undertaking and frantic lane swapping than in speed ). Selectivity in policing can of course also be a two edged sword.


    It is hard to take our moral panic about speed terribly seriously, especially when coupled with remarkably poor driver training and licence testing ( hands-up all those who have watched their children's friends fudging their logbooks to get up their 120 hours before sitting the "test " )

    Andrew


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    A lot of enforcement of speeding in Victoria evolved around the 85th percentile, in general in those days police would not book an offender for exceeding the posted speed limit unless the driver was exceeding the nominal safe speed that the road was carrying, using common sense and judgment, thus the emphasis was on targeting the driver who grossly exceeded speed limits, also for the driver the emphasis was on driving according to the road conditions as this would effect the 85th percentile and adjusting speed to maintain safe distances from the car in front and the car behind.

    There were a couple of things that upset this common sense approach, the wheatie packet driver licence era where testers were told to pass unsafe drivers who completed a memory test set of multiple choice answer and were lucky enough to pick the low percentage required, then the bean counters became involved when speed cameras were introduced and proved that cutting tolerances and scrapping the 85th percentile road speed evaluation would mean more revenue and less not more police presence on the roads, and speed became an obsession - didn't matter that there weren't enough police to catch the reckless speeders, and speed cameras were not smart or able to apprehend the worst drivers there and then, but the reliance on revenue and advertising slogans meant people stopped considering road conditions and safe driving practices, you watched your speedo, wiped off 5 kph and you WERE a good driver, didn't matter if you had any perception of safety, closing speeds, changing conditions to suit weather.

    So you had driver tgravelling at what they thought was 95 kph, but because the speedo on their car was actually 10 percent below that and most of our connecting highways are single lane carriageways, these safe driver caused massive blockages as they drove at an actual speed of 90 to 94 kph, then other drivers slavishly observing the speed limits could only pass slowly in the rare places where there were overtaking lanes or very long straight stretches, to the wipe off five drivers 100 kph was very fast and a percentage were prone to exceed lower residential speed limits (check this for yourself) so wonderful for revenue too, especially hidden cameras.

    The whole Psychology changed, hoons could do what they liked, no police presence to catch them and they were smart enough to know where cameras were placed or the limitation on placement, open slather and if they did kill as they sped, good examples to use in road safety speed kills campaigns.

    The advent of cruise controls and also GPS fitted to double check/warn of speeds has been a boon for the law abiding motorists, but then again do those motorists understand the need to adjust overall speed to conditions of the roadway, weather, dealing with oncoming lights in inclement weather or is dodging a fine for creeping over an arbitrary limit the principle life saving deal, when so many serious issues arise that require good judgement, and driving skill. Not to mention overcoming fatigue and taking rest breaks when driving long distances.

    Then consider our drivers in other countries used to driving at much higher speeds with better honed skills. expectations and road competence, who strangely never drive ON the speed limit, but vary their driving with the weather conditions, and they can even drive in weather conditions we would never imagine.

    Step back and wait for the barrage... from the safety experts...

    Ken

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    Thankfully, I am from a convict state (NSW) so I drive like I want to. I gladly pay the speeding fines because it is only a small percentage of the time that I am caught. The only licence I have kept unblemished is my marriage licence.

    I am damned if I want this on my tombstone "Departed this life with 13 demerit points in credit". Its kind of like having unused FlyBuys points, isn't it.

    John
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    Those you spotted on the M2 don't care unless you are blocking the Motorway they are there to deal with Incidents.
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    I think the Irish have the right idea:

    watch this video if u care about speed limits in aus-irish-speed-sign.jpg

    John
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    Those you spotted on the M2 don't care unless you are blocking the Motorway they are there to deal with Incidents.
    I hope that's humour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Funny thing is that motorists who for one reason or another drift over such a speed limit momentarily they pay their fines promptly,

    Ken
    well, of course, some dont, and deny, deny, deny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    well, of course, some dont, and deny, deny, deny.
    Hardly the point
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Iceberg205Mi16 seems to be related to the propagandist who got deleted earlier today.

    Ken, today I drove on the M2 motorway through suburban Sydney - obviously a very safe road (doing 100 kph in very light traffic). I spotted no fewer than six radar wallopers conducting highway robbery in one direction, and three in the other. All were well hidden in roadside bushland or behind Jersey walls. No signs present. Why would anyone believe their bulls**t, when collecting their wages is all they really care about?
    You sir, are an ignorant fool.

    You are so quick to judge with your prejudice.

    The 'Free Flow' cars are positioned at regular intervals on all major motorways in Sydney. Their task is to be high profile (hence their day glo markings) and ability to respond quickly to incidents on these arterials to keep the traffic moving. While they have the ability to enforce the traffic laws, they generally do not, as that is not their core function.

    A huge amount of money has been invested in the free flow campaign. As for being hidden, there is nowhere to hide on the motorway. They park in breakdown bays and areas where there is an adequate room where they won't get hit up the arse by a driver with their eyes on their mobile phone. They are in the same places every day so people get used to the idea that police are there. Where is this roadside bushland on the M2? Why do they need signs to sit there? Police don't operate speed cameras either by the way? That's the Macquarie Bank.

    I normally refrain from positing on enforcement type matters but as my views are apparently bullshit and I just care about collecting wages, why not?

    Dave 28 years....
    Last edited by 68 404; 14th May 2015 at 09:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by icberg205mi16 View Post
    if u wanna join and support the party Join
    or to check out some our their views and videos http://ldp.org.au
    If you want to talk cars, stay.

    If you are canvassing for a political party (which apparently you are), piss off. A scant 2 posts hardly earns you breathing room from the rules of this forum.

    Dave
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 404 View Post
    You sir, are an ignorant fool.

    You are so quick to judge with your prejudice.

    The 'Free Flow' cars are positioned at regular intervals on all major motorways in Sydney. Their task is to be high profile (hence their day glo markings) and ability to respond quickly to incidents on these arterials to keep the traffic moving. While they have the ability to enforce the traffic laws, they generally do not, as that is not their core function.

    A huge amount of money has been invested in the free flow campaign. As for being hidden, there is nowhere to hide on the motorway. They park in breakdown bays and areas where there is an adequate room where they won't get hit up the arse by a driver with their eyes on their mobile phone. They are in the same places every day so people get used to the idea that police are there. Where is this roadside bushland on the M2? Why do they need signs to sit there? Police don't operate speed cameras either by the way? That's the Macquarie Bank.

    I normally refrain from positing on enforcement type matters but as my views are apparently bullshit and I just care about collecting wages, why not?

    Dave 28 years....
    Sadly, Dave, the work of the Police is not easily accepted by a lot of motorists. I'd have to say every time I've been busted I've always found them to be polite, respectful, fair and diligent. That of course has been on more than one occasion.

    Sometimes, I admit that I might have been enjoying myself a bit much, but in the end, rules are rules and like drug dealers, we know what we are up for if we transgress. The police forces in all states do a good job of weeding out the homicidal drivers from the ones having fun.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Like all other things, I think the system is bad and needs to be changed completely. Policing speed is all fine and dandy, if it's not the only thing you police. Which in Australia it is unfortunately (save for red light cameras perhaps. And parking).

    Other countries (notably Sweden) have a much smarter system, where certain "mistakes" mean an instant loss of licence. Failing to give way is a major one and in my opinion a much more important cause of accident than speed. The reason is, whatever you enforce, that's what people will consider important. Speed? Okay, we'll watch the speed. Nevermind everything else. Little wonder people can't change lanes, can't merge on a freeway, and are dumbfounded by roundabouts. That's why Swedes can drive at 140km/h on a snow covered freeway (and RWD cars, no less - try to change lanes at those speeds on snow if you feel a hero) without accidents, their traffic flows through roundabouts and they don't have traffic congestion regardless of weather.
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    Ignorant fool here. 68 404 should know that between Windsor Rd and its eastern end the M2 runs through bushland resumed from the parks. There are numerous gaps in Jersey walls and other barriers to allow a vehicle to back off the road and be invisible to passing cars until the last possible moment. A cynic would say it's by design, as many are angled to the carriageway so that they need reversing into, but I won't go that far. It is certainly safer to come out again facing forward.

    You don't know many motorists if you don't know someone ticketed by this system; you aren't from these parts. It doesn't need at least eight police cars to maintain flow, and the middle of the day when I saw them has no flow problem.

    Other well marked patrol cars occasionally sit on the down ramps where there is a longer view , and perhaps they have free flow in mind. The one at the Delhi Rd ramp often goes for a spin down the motorway and comes back again. Their main effect is to slow accelerating vehicles so that they are too slow to properly merge, and dangerously come to a halt at the junction. I wonder why people instinctively brake whenever they spot those oh so friendly highway patrol cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    I wonder why people instinctively brake whenever they spot those oh so friendly highway patrol cars.
    I'm guilty Why, because some of these enforcers are wowsers and hand out handsome fines for a few km over the limit. Maybe they aren't wowsers but have to show some results to their superiors???
    I know, it's been denied but when asked if it is a consideration when it comes to performance review time - one wonders.
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