Copyright infringement for working on your own car
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Thread: Copyright infringement for working on your own car

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Default Copyright infringement for working on your own car

    Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars

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    Interesting.

  2. #2
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Unsurprising, give it fifteen years and we might be in doo-doo.

    Remember the early file share networks like Napster? Now that sort of conduct is being slowly dragged into a zone where "ordinary" people see it as unacceptable. In the middle of this transition is mobile phone code; it's now illegal in many countries to root/jailbreak your own handset. Once governments start allowing successful prosecutions for that (quite possibly the test cases will be for a totally different end, but it will constitute a convenient way to inhibit someone) then we are on the home run. From that point, both with simpleton laws by national governments and upholdings of proprietary OEM rights, people will be locked in.

    My favourite current example of commonsense gone mad, American style, is the "free range parents" furore. Worth a read if you're feeling cold - it'll make your blood boil.

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    Fellow Frogger! Psychlone's Avatar
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    Didn't Sony try to get people to stop modding their playstations and the government told them to bugger off because once you pay for something it's yours and you can do what you like with it?
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    OK, I'll be the Devil's advocate - If it is illegal for us to work on the electricity system in our own house, or even to work on the connections to the dunny, then I suggest that it is reasonable to expect some sort of control on somebody working on complex computer systems which may affect handling, braking, steering, airbags, pre-tensioned seatbelts, and other safety items. And that is only for the current generation of vehicles - it's only going to become more complex.

    It is an interesting article, but I note they have sexed it up to be controversial with photos of mechanics with spanners, when they seem to be referring only to modification of ECU's, not exactly home mechanic material.
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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordman View Post
    OK, I'll be the Devil's advocate - If it is illegal for us to work on the electricity system in our own house, or even to work on the connections to the dunny, then I suggest that it is reasonable to expect some sort of control on somebody working on complex computer systems which may affect handling, braking, steering, airbags, pre-tensioned seatbelts, and other safety items. And that is only for the current generation of vehicles - it's only going to become more complex.

    It is an interesting article, but I note they have sexed it up to be controversial with photos of mechanics with spanners, when they seem to be referring only to modification of ECU's, not exactly home mechanic material.
    Agreed. I find the copyright angle curious though.

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    I won't be working on electric steering. Someone in Thailand had their electric steering go haywire recently. He was thankful it was at low speed and not on a highway. Apparently it was jerking violently side to side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post
    I won't be working on electric steering. Someone in Thailand had their electric steering go haywire recently. He was thankful it was at low speed and not on a highway. Apparently it was jerking violently side to side.
    Nah, nothing to do with steering, that is just the normal style of driving. Must have been avoiding a Tuk Tuk.
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    JBN
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    Note to self: DO NOT TAMPER WITH CPU ON 2CV.

    John
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlone View Post
    Didn't Sony try to get people to stop modding their playstations and the government told them to bugger off because once you pay for something it's yours and you can do what you like with it?
    Yes and no.
    It was Sony, but the guy they sued in Sydney (?) lost and was fined 90k$. The gov didn't say nada. And he was only modding OZ 'stations to play Japan spec games.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    People have been modifying cars for as long as they have been around and some has come out of the process more dangerous than they started if they're not done properly. Think wider wheels, bigger carbies, headers, cams, steering mods, etc. So why is it okay for someone to change the mechanical characteristics of a car but shock horror we now have computers in cars so it is now dangerous to do any modifications.
    What a crock of shit.
    If I buy seat covers or some fluffy dice for the rearview mirror will this constitute a 'modification' and void the manufacturers obligations.

    The car tuning/aftermarket industry will hopefully fight this crap but car companies have deep pockets and will likely win this one.
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    1000+ Posts Renomad's Avatar
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    Maybe the manufacturers should fit tamper proof stickers to ECUs like you find on gaming consoles and if these stickers have been tampered with, the manufacturer is no longer liable for any dire consequence that may occur.
    As long as I can still change/top up fluids, filters, brake pads, rotate tyres, etc, etc, I'll be happy.
    The fuse box would be a grey area, wouldn't it?
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    Good example why seemingly simple regulations need scrutiny lest these "thin edge of the wedge" restrictions get out of control or have unintended future expanded consequences. IMHO ALL regulations should be subject to automatic review/revisit via sunset expiry provisions set out in the original legislation.

    Ken
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    The only solution to this is open source.

    Instead anal retentive manufacturers do what they can to frustrate - eg, PSA prevented a local diagnostic manufacturer from distributing software from Europe, where copyright monopoly laws are a little less stupid.
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    why stop there seasink? i'm sure you've heard of open sourced hardware routes - though form memory it was mainly open source projects for trucks and other farm equipment (tools too).

    here is a TED talk on one http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski?language=en

    yes i hate most ted talks just like anyone else but this is OK.

    I think projects like these will only be inevitable in the near future and lead to the rise of a new anarchism and space exploration, we'll first need to set aside a group of people to start working on an encyclopaedia and then move them to another planet, and call that society The Foundation.
    Last edited by lion5; 22nd April 2015 at 12:04 PM.
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  15. #15
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    The issue is primarily that the mechanical functions of the car are increasingly under the control of a series of networked ECUs rather than just monitored. It's gone a long way past an injection system just controlling the fuel mixture. For example, if you want to start the car, there is likely no direct connection to the starter key or button, but a 'key switch' input to a computer that then checks that all is OK to start and then instructs the starter to start. Consider a car with a parking assistance system and it can effectively drive itself with all important features under the control of telematic units connected by a CAN. If you start fiddling with sensor inputs (a common mod) or changing the ECU code, there could be unanticipated problems in both safety, performance and emission control. The moment there is an injury or other problem, the finger will be pointed at the manufacturer, so there is a case for some control of modifications. It may well be that you end up buying the car but are obliged to accept licencing of the software to run it, which might prohibit modifications etc.. Watch out for the impact of the TPP in this area!

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'm confused how this will effect some nutter that's driving there even tireder and more rat infested old CX down the roads.... Will it stop the carby on his ID19's working
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  17. #17
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    the headline:

    Copyright infringement for working on your own car
    is hardly accurate. they are talking about modification of the code which operates the systems in the car. that isnt 'repair' as normally understood.
    Mungous likes this.

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