Biodiesel / SVO powered Frogs
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Icon3 Biodiesel / SVO powered Frogs

    Saw one of these today at a sustainable living display day at Parramatta Lake Park.

    The guy had his own personal car displayed with a parallel system running off a custom alloy tank in the boot of about 30-40 litres I'd guess, which fit inbetween the rear wheel arches, and went about 2/3rd's of the way to the boot height, meaning that he could still use his folding rear seats.

    He mentioned that the higher flash point of the biodiesel meant that he had to start and stop whilst running on conventional diesel, but once warm, the engine was switched manually to the bio supply.

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    I didn't get to ask him what engine mods he might have required - but there was a fair bit of extra plumbing under the bonnet, including a 70W pre-heater for the Bio supply line.

    He wasn't a Pug nut, but rather a biodiesel nut. He'd be interesting to get along to a club night as a guest speaker - I might send an email to the club about him.

    Anyone else seen any other conversions like this?
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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Filldebin's Avatar
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    Default Self sufficiency

    This sounds interesting.
    I have for many years wanted to be able to grow my own fuel and run independently of the highly taxed and regulated fuel modes that we are all subjected to. There are extremely good oil presses to buy so one can buy the raw rapeseed or linseed or another suitable seed and extract the oil and the waste in the form of small pellets can be used as fodder for cattle or for further burning for warmth in a house.
    In Sweden the cost of diesel is about (Aus) $1.50 a litre and petrol is about $2.00 a litre. That might not sound too bad for a diesel driver, but the road tax is about five times as much for the diesel as for the petrol car. Therefore the up-front costs are somewhat daunting. A 505 diesel is about 5000 crowns or about 1000 dollars for road tax. Traffic Insurance is another cost that has to be organised and paid as well. 75 % of the petrol cost is tax, it is built up of enviroment tax, energy tax and something else and then on top VAT or GST, ie the smaller taxes are taxed.
    One thing that is good is that cars over thirty years of age are road tax exempt( I have mentioned this previously). However, who wants to drive their old cars on the salty winter roads?
    Food for thought, eventually the gumnut there will follow the Swedes in taxing policy, I mean where did GST come from?

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    This sounds like my mate's father's car. If it IS him he used to have a Gemini turbo diesel that a lot of the system was first used in.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYT205
    This sounds like my mate's father's car. If it IS him he used to have a Gemini turbo diesel that a lot of the system was first used in.
    Yeh, thats the guy - Phillip is his name - lives in the Blue Mountains.
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Yep thats him.

    He is a very cluey bastard.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Paul Smith's Avatar
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    AFAIK he had to have the diesel pump rebuilt because the bio-diesel destroyed all the seals.

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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith
    AFAIK he had to have the diesel pump rebuilt because the bio-diesel destroyed all the seals.

    Paul
    So will the low sulpher diesel that is out there now if the pump seals are not viton. I have been using bio in my landcruiser, 505 and 405 SRBT's for some time now. No need for two tanks or any engine mods. Car will start happily on straight bio. He is probably running SVO or straight Veggie oil which will coke the injectors if not started and stopped on Bio or Dino diesel hence the dual tank set up works very well.
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  8. #8
    Member Jon Wood's Avatar
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    Many people in the Uk are running their diesels/TD's on Bio.

    In fact, many are popping down to their local supermarket and buying pure vegi oil and pouring it straight in, its a massive saving on diesel, with no tax.

    A few words of caution:

    1) Only the mechanical Bosch VE diesel pump can handle veggie, the Lucas Delphi ones tend to seize.
    2) Forget it on any engine with an ECU, eg. HDi it will go bang.
    3) Most people thin the vegi oil with some pure White spirit!
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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! winnie's Avatar
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    My brother inlaw is currently converting an old acco to run on biodiesel and veggie oil.
    An interesting site on biodiesel: www.bagelhole.org/article.php/Transport/149/

    Be very careful should you choose to make your own fuel. One of the by products is glycerol which is very useful in making soap and explosives!

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Default Buy a small Bio-Diesel plant

    Quote Originally Posted by winnie
    One of the by products is glycerol which is very useful in making soap and explosives!
    This glycerol by-product is also a very good hand cleaner!!

    There is a bloke in Melbourne (factory @ back of Moorabin Airport) who sells a small Bio-Diesel producing 'plant' about the size of 2 44gallon drums. It has a heater, stirrer & pump attached. He gets old cooking oil, heats and 'washes' it (with sulphuric acid, I think) and then blends it with other low (or no) tax chemicals to sort of refine it. He had to pay for all ingredients though, so was only saving about 50%.
    If you could get a regular supply of old cooking oil for free it might be worth it.

    Trouble is that Costello is now trying to tax the ingredients for bio-diesel. They want to promote alcohol petrol made from wheat & need to stamp out alternatives. All owned by mates of the gov!!!
    So many projects - so little time.

  11. #11
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    i still don't understand why but this country can grow enough sugar and canola to run the vehicles in this country

    is it so that our leaders are getting too much of a backhand to use this renewable resource ?
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 604 tragic
    This glycerol by-product is also a very good hand cleaner!!

    There is a bloke in Melbourne (factory @ back of Moorabin Airport) who sells a small Bio-Diesel producing 'plant' about the size of 2 44gallon drums. It has a heater, stirrer & pump attached. He gets old cooking oil, heats and 'washes' it (with sulphuric acid, I think) and then blends it with other low (or no) tax chemicals to sort of refine it. He had to pay for all ingredients though, so was only saving about 50%.
    If you could get a regular supply of old cooking oil for free it might be worth it.

    Trouble is that Costello is now trying to tax the ingredients for bio-diesel. They want to promote alcohol petrol made from wheat & need to stamp out alternatives. All owned by mates of the gov!!!
    If anyone in Canberra wants some free used cooking oil, looks at Neil, give me a yell. I usually have a couple of 44gal drums of the stuff

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  13. #13
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    Default Biodiesel powered 405/406 Turbo diesel

    Hi Kaiser,

    I'm in Canberra and am interested in helping you get rid of your used cooking oil to make some more biodiesel (if Cruiserman is able to assist with the alchemy as promised at a time convenient to him of course).

    I have just recently got up the courage to test a small quantity of biodiesel in our 1998 406 STDT (not an HDi). It seems to be running fine - in fact less black smoke on acceleration and even smells like cooking chips!

    However, I am concerned about a couple of the posts above indicating that biodiesel may not be a good idea in later models with an ECU. Can anyone else confirm this or provide some more info?

    1) Only the mechanical Bosch VE diesel pump can handle veggie, the Lucas Delphi ones tend to seize.


    2) Forget it on any engine with an ECU, eg. HDi it will go bang.
    Also provide info on the point about a Bosch and Delphi injection pumps (mines a Lucas.....eeek!)

    Advice from Forum members welcome (as ever), - its getting late I must be getting the bug...

    Thanks,
    Adam

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam_405
    Hi Kaiser,

    I'm in Canberra and am interested in helping you get rid of your used cooking oil to make some more biodiesel (if Cruiserman is able to assist with the alchemy as promised at a time convenient to him of course).

    I have just recently got up the courage to test a small quantity of biodiesel in our 1998 406 STDT (not an HDi). It seems to be running fine - in fact less black smoke on acceleration and even smells like cooking chips!

    However, I am concerned about a couple of the posts above indicating that biodiesel may not be a good idea in later models with an ECU. Can anyone else confirm this or provide some more info?



    Also provide info on the point about a Bosch and Delphi injection pumps (mines a Lucas.....eeek!)

    Advice from Forum members welcome (as ever), - its getting late I must be getting the bug...

    Thanks,
    Adam
    Adam

    Your welcome to as much as you want, just gotta come and get it. I have a guy come around every few weeks to get rid of it, its a free service and he probably sells it. I'd much rather give it to a fellow frogger. Drop me a PM when your ready and we can work out the details. Unfortunately I don't know anything about Biodiesel and ECUs so I cant help you there

    Ky

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiserman
    So will the low sulpher diesel that is out there now if the pump seals are not viton. I have been using bio in my landcruiser, 505 and 405 SRBT's for some time now. No need for two tanks or any engine mods. Car will start happily on straight bio. He is probably running SVO or straight Veggie oil which will coke the injectors if not started and stopped on Bio or Dino diesel hence the dual tank set up works very well.
    Yeh, thats it - he's using straight Vege oil in his second tank, so strictly speaking I guess it's not 'Bio'.

    A www reference for more info is www.biofuels.ca. These guys sell the electric inline heater, six port solenoid, fuel lines, and the auxillary pump.

    Oh, and this is a model with a Turbo and an ECU which seems to be running happily after the mods.
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    Hi Kaiser,

    I've sent you an e-mail to arrange pick up of the oil. Give me a call sometime.

    I'll post some info on the process and how it goes for other Froggers later, once we're cookin'.

    Cheers,
    Adam

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam_405
    Hi Kaiser,

    I've sent you an e-mail to arrange pick up of the oil. Give me a call sometime.

    I'll post some info on the process and how it goes for other Froggers later, once we're cookin'.

    Cheers,
    Adam
    Yep got the email. Will give you a call time permitting tomorrow. The oil is cotton seed, and will definately smell like chips cooking The oil is in Hughes.

    Ky

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Much of the other info re ecu and the pumps refers to SVO not Biodiesel. Adam dont forget that in France they use min 3% to 5% bio to save the pump and injectors from a premature death caused by ULSD.

    Next you will want

    Caution this car farts
    French Fries stickers.
    Neil
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  19. #19
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    Default 406 on Biodiesel

    Quote Originally Posted by cruiserman
    Much of the other info re ecu and the pumps refers to SVO not Biodiesel. Adam dont forget that in France they use min 3% to 5% bio to save the pump and injectors from a premature death caused by ULSD.

    Next you will want

    Caution this car farts
    French Fries stickers.
    Thanks for the reassuring info on the biodiesel Neil. Bio's going well in the 406 so far - can't say I've noticed it to be less rattly but the 406 is pretty quiet anyway - but it definitely blows less black stuff out the back which is good.

    I'm not normally one for stickers on my car, even for causes I believe in, but I may just be tempted by a "French Fries" one. Perhaps I should even look up how to get an Aussie Frogs one while I'm about it and go the whole frog.

    Cheers,
    Adam

  20. #20
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    Default Bio-diesel production plant

    Quote Originally Posted by 604 tragic
    There is a bloke in Melbourne (factory @ back of Moorabin Airport) who sells a small Bio-Diesel producing 'plant' about the size of 2 44gallon drums.
    Hi,

    Do you have any contact details for this guy making the biodiesel plants or should I just drive round the "back of Moorabin airport" next time I'm in Melbourne?

    Sounds interesting...worth an enquiry anyway. Send me personal mail if you dont want to "advertise".

    Cheers,
    Adam

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam_405
    Do you have any contact details for this guy making the biodiesel plants or should I just drive round the "back of Moorabin airport" next time I'm in Melbourne?

    Sounds interesting...worth an enquiry anyway. Send me personal mail if you dont want to "advertise".
    Adam
    Hi Adam: Sorry for the delay, but I will get you the information soon & post it - my mate, another AussieFrogger (505SW), who took me to this guys place is getting REAL serious. He has just bought a Mercedes 300D (a good buy for 3.5K) & was talking about SVO!! I had better talk him back into biodiesel as if he clogs his engine up, buying/fixing anything 'diesel' in a Merc motor is incredibly expensive!!!!

    The plant produces a very good product with the bonus of having a lifetime supply of handcleaner.
    So many projects - so little time.

  22. #22
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    So what are the effects and problems associated with running a Biodiesel car with an ECU? Basically what happens to the car?

    Cya Stalled
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    What happens, well you get in start the car and drive it. All the usual combustion type processes happen which make the car go. When you get where you are going you stop the car. Biodiesel is that simple.
    Neil
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by STALLED
    So what are the effects and problems associated with running a Biodiesel car with an ECU? Basically what happens to the car?
    Cya Stalled
    Like Neil says, you just drive it like normal. A few things are different though, especially less pollution, as noted on the Citroen Australia website:
    http://www.citroen.com.au/layout.asp...=article&ID=80

    The Citroen C3 1.4 HDi 16V competing in the Challenge runs with 30% biodiesel made from Canola oil. For diesel engines, PSA Peugeot CitroŽn is favouring the use of vegetable oil methyl esters (VOME) otherwise known as biodiesel. This biofuel contributes to environmental protection by reducing particulate emissions from HDi engines by 22 per cent. Significant gains can also be achieved, compared with more traditional diesel engines, through an upstream reduction in atmospheric CO2. The overall impact "from the well to the wheel" of a 30/70 biodiesel/diesel mixture (biodiesel 30 per cent) is an 18 per cent reduction in CO2 emissions compared with an identical vehicle running on conventional diesel.
    The seem to be favouring blends in this article, although straight biodiesel can be used, there are some effects on some hoses, especially in older cars. If you want more details on this, others are more qualified than I to respond - or search Aussiefrogs - I think I read it here somewhere.
    -Adam

  25. #25
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Just another quick question!

    How much per liter would it cost to run a car on a good quality biodiesel, is it much cheaper than pump diesel?

    Cya Stalled
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