505 off road handling
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  1. #1
    Tadpole sajica.au's Avatar
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    Icon14 505 off road handling

    I don't really post much here in the general chat (now froggy chat) much, let alone check this section much, as I don't really have much to say, as cars aren't really my expertise, but I'm learning quite a bit by being on this site and playing with my my pug.

    I remember when I first came to this site just after I got my 505 in 2002 someone recommended to take her off road, with a comment, you'll be pleasantly suprised, well I got to do that last weekend, and man was that a lot of fun.

    For a 20 year old car peugeot managed to produce a car with what i think of as nice handling on road, and definately off road too. Unsealed roads and gravel tracks, compacted clay, don't phase this old pug of mine she's a lovely car, I always thought roadworks sucked too before I took a pug through them, the way it handles through roadworks and the detours they make you take with sharpish bends. This car is fun to drive, a pain in the proverbial to start but a lovely car to drive. I haven't driven my dads magna, but the overall ride feeling has nothing over the pug. I've driven the pug through road works before, but I don't know I think I really appreciated the cars handling this time around

    /end rant


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    any thoughs?

  2. #2
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Recently I was camping with some friends... one day we took a 4wd track to the top of the mountain. I wanted to take the 504 as well as the Range Rover and the Forester, but Range Rover guy said there was no way the 504 would make it. Too many sharp dips he said.

    It made it without a qualm.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  3. #3
    Tadpole sajica.au's Avatar
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    Icon10

    I sure hope that I'm not coming off as too Propugs, but I guess I really enjoyed the car on my little off road session (it was an off road carpark by the river) and I didn't know what to expect

    How did that peugeot saying go

    The best way to take a corner isn't with a line through it
    It's to take a lion through it

    It's something to that effect off the top of my head. I'd like to be there in a pug to see it tackle some of those targa tasmania hairpins and stuff, that would be fun

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Pug off road, Hell yeah.

    About a month ago in bunjalong national park the pug took myself and two mates on an offroad adventure.

    Navigating at night on a 4wd track was great fun.

    No problems, I loved the gorund clearance, only reason why I won't lower the pug any time soon.

    Aircon would have helped my mates to stop sweating. Very little faith in the old pug. Now they at least respect its durability.

    shobbz


    p.s I believe that my Type R sticker on the back made the pug handle 200% better
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Jez 405's Avatar
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    Was camping with some friends a couple of years back.
    My 405, a new Subaru Outback, BMW 320i and Toyota RAV4.
    The Outback and I took a shortcut through some really rough bush tracks that the BMW and RAV4 driver didn't want to touch. The Outback was stranded over a ditch with two wheels in mid air and had to reverse 200m back to the main track. The 405 sailed right on by ahead, with only a fistfull of dirt jammed in the towhook to show for it
    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI S1
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  6. #6
    nJm
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    I know all my friends couldn't believe what I would get up to in my 505. I remember my first trip on a dirt road. It was the 'Woods Point' road up near Marysville and boy is that a rough one! The 505 soaked up every major pot hole and dealt well with all the corrugations. After that I got a little more adventurous and took it on 4WD tracks. My only major mistake was hitting the brakes when I saw a large mound of rocks in the middle of the track. This made the nose dive down and resulted in a dented (but thankfully not cracked!) sump.

    Mind you, I think all my off road endeavors have started to take their toll. The poor pug's suspension is now quite harsh and the whole rear end gets quite upset with man hole covers on the road. Time to get the shocks rebuilt I guess. They are 21 years / 280,000km old (AND the first 19 years of the car's life was spent on rural unsealed roads).



    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    You Guys need to try a Citroen....

    Think about it, variable ride height, all that weight dangling over the driving wheels... Fantastic handling, there's not many places they won't go. Sure there no 4wd, but you'd be bloody stunned if you saw how far you could follow one

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
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    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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  8. #8
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    You Guys need to try a Citroen....

    Think about it, variable ride height, all that weight dangling over the driving wheels... Fantastic handling, there's not many places they won't go. Sure there no 4wd, but you'd be bloody stunned if you saw how far you could follow one

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    you know you could just about feel a shane response from the time this thread started
    3 x '78 604 SL

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  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    you know you could just about feel a shane response from the time this thread started
    Yeah,

    I do wonder why you guys make it so easy for me

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  10. #10
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Yeah,

    I do wonder why you guys make it so easy for me

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    don't worry Shane as one of these days i will learn what makes citroen owners so passionate about these cars

    even the missus is starting to actually like the look of some CX pics i show her

    for some reason she seems to like look of a certain red/burgandy one
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  11. #11
    nJm
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    I don't doubt a DS or CX would be brilliant off road (for some reason I just don't see a Xantia or C5 doing the same job). However I'd be worried if something goes wrong (notice I said if, not when ), a conventional carby driven RWD sedan would be easier to get sorted.

    Also, there is something to be said about 'power' slides on dirt roads in a RWD car .
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nJm
    I don't doubt a DS or CX would be brilliant off road (for some reason I just don't see a Xantia or C5 doing the same job). However I'd be worried if something goes wrong (notice I said if, not when ), a conventional carby driven RWD sedan would be easier to get sorted.

    Also, there is something to be said about 'power' slides on dirt roads in a RWD car .
    Power sliding ion dirt is fun but i am always terrified of powersliding into a pot hole.

    shobbz
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  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shobbz
    Power sliding ion dirt is fun but i am always terrified of powersliding into a pot hole.

    shobbz
    Time for me to chime in, anyone driven the back road from Braidwood to Nowra? I made the mistake thinking it would be quicker than through Batemans Bay!

    We were quite committed when the road turned to dirt, didn't worry too much this was a Peugeot (405) after all. As the road deteriorated, so did the weather!

    Power slides all over the shop, the thin layer of red dust turning very quickly into mud once the rain started. But it was FUN! I had a few guys on trailbikes appear in the rear vision mirror and then saw them drop back. Upon reaching Nowra, I expected to see ding and scrapes all along the underneath of the car.

    Apart from her lovely red paint now a pale brown, but not a scratch! The car performed remarkably well (as one would expect) through the deep ruts cut in by the heavy rain.

    These frogs are remarkable manufacturers (all three)! You have to wonder why you would drive anything else!

    Enjoy the 505, they are great car as is the 504, 405, 406 (can't half tell what I have owned) and do yourself a favour, have a go in a Citroen sometime!

    Regards
    Andrew

  14. #14
    nJm
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    I think I need to find a good Citroen. I drove a Xantia with 80,000km on it and the air vent fan didn't work, the door lock fell off in my hand and the STOP light came on with a bingbong sound at a traffic light. The fact that the ride quality wasn't as good as my 505 didn't help its case...
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nJm
    I think I need to find a good Citroen. I drove a Xantia with 80,000km on it and the air vent fan didn't work, the door lock fell off in my hand and the STOP light came on with a bingbong sound at a traffic light. The fact that the ride quality wasn't as good as my 505 didn't help its case...
    The hydraulic pressure light was coming on, with the most annoying buzzer known to man and you kept driving

    Stick with your Pugs ... I think it'll be safer for us all

    Obviosly that car had rock hard/never regassed sphere's all around, it's LHM level was most likely low (and black instead of green). How the hell did you break a door catch Xantias are built like tanks (they'd even give an ovlov a run for it's money).

    This car needs $200bucks spent on it to put it right:

    1st - Run a new power wire to the demister fan. The fan is powered by the ignition and the contacts in the ignition burn. The simple fix is to run some power over from the cigarette lighter (a 5minute job). There is NO airflow without the fan working.

    --Grab the 7spheres off an have them regassed (the car will now be transformed) $150 - $200 bucks through most car clubs.

    --5litres of fresh LHM and make sure you clean the filters. (about $40bucks).

    Of course as this car has been so poorly maintaned you'd be stupid not to change all fluids, cambelt etc....

    Citroens are very tough cars, even if they have been badly abused and serviced cars such as this one.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    It realy is a pat on the back for a vechile of such age.. that we still find comfort in driving one.. and all this enjoyment and that it still performs adequantly to a combonation of needs that each of us chuck at it..

    i havent been 4WD in my 505.. but the local dirt paths get quite a workout.. powersteering makes it all to easy tho honestly.. I mean.. you know you are going quick, but the vechile seemingly installs all sorts of fabulas convidence in you whilst navigating the old girl sideways through every slight crest of a corner you can find..

    But realy.. we all know secretly we would rather be driving a VK commodore
    Last edited by bowie; 12th March 2004 at 11:43 AM.

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! boodek's Avatar
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    I've done that Nowra road many times...a lot of fun, as is (was?) the back road into Canberra from Adaminaby.

    I used have a diesel 504 - gutless and slow, but stacks of useful torque. I remember one episode where I was bush-bashing in it, heading up a steep, greasy, rocky fire-trail in first gear and little throttle; I had some decent mud and snow tyres on the car and it just clawed its way to the top! Another time I was at the Henty Machinery Field Days - it's either stinking hot or bucketing down for this event, and this was a wet one. At the end of the day everyone is getting towed out of the carpark-paddock; I was stuck too, but started the car, put it in first, let the clutch in, got out and pushed the bugger onto firmer ground. They're bloody impressive cars, and I'm continually amazed where they can go and what they can do.
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  18. #18
    dbc
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    I once heard a Land Rover club member say that the diesel Pug 504 was a honorary Land Rover because of its off-road ability. That's quite a compliment.
    My Renault 16 has gone places I would not take any normal two-wheel drive, and would probably beat many of the so-called four-wheel or all-wheel drives that are so popular these days.

    Daniel
    1969 16TS
    1995 405 SRI

  19. #19
    nJm
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    The hydraulic pressure light was coming on, with the most annoying buzzer known to man and you kept driving

    Stick with your Pugs ... I think it'll be safer for us all

    Obviosly that car had rock hard/never regassed sphere's all around, it's LHM level was most likely low (and black instead of green). How the hell did you break a door catch Xantias are built like tanks (they'd even give an ovlov a run for it's money).

    This car needs $200bucks spent on it to put it right:

    1st - Run a new power wire to the demister fan. The fan is powered by the ignition and the contacts in the ignition burn. The simple fix is to run some power over from the cigarette lighter (a 5minute job). There is NO airflow without the fan working.

    --Grab the 7spheres off an have them regassed (the car will now be transformed) $150 - $200 bucks through most car clubs.

    --5litres of fresh LHM and make sure you clean the filters. (about $40bucks).

    Of course as this car has been so poorly maintaned you'd be stupid not to change all fluids, cambelt etc....

    Citroens are very tough cars, even if they have been badly abused and serviced cars such as this one.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    I was test driving it from a used euro car dealer in Hawthorn. They obviously didn't know much about Citroen's either
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Filldebin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    You Guys need to try a Citroen....

    Think about it, variable ride height, all that weight dangling over the driving wheels... Fantastic handling, there's not many places they won't go. Sure there no 4wd, but you'd be bloody stunned if you saw how far you could follow one

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Yeah, My neigbour had a citroen in the north of Sweden. he said that it could get almost anywhere because if the snow built up too much and the car was finally forced to stop then he would lower the car first and then raise and drive on, he had simply squashed the snow under the car. Though that is a bit hard with mud, not quite so squishy.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    ha!!!

    now thats handy !!!

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    My father used to be a professional fox shooter in NSW in the 70s. He used a 403 wagon for his spotlighting vehicle, with a seat on the roofrack! It never let him down.

    In the early 80s we lived 200km west of Bourke, on the worst road in NSW. It was 40kmh if you were game. And the bulldust would turn into grease when it rained. One day we were going to Dubbo and it had been raining. Every potholw would literally spin the car around, it was that slipperrey. One spun us into the ditch at the side of the road. It took us 5 km to get out again, and we were travelling at walkingpace with an indicated 45kmh on the speedo. When we got to the other end we had to drive around road closed signs.

    A couple of years ago I was working on a farm transplanting Brussel Sprout seedlings ( after 70,000 you never want to see one again!) and it had been raining heavily. The paddock was at the bottom of a hill, with a steep gully to negotiate. My father came with me, and took my 403 home so he could bring a hot lunch. When he went to drive out, the others said he would never make it. He did, and a few hours later we had to tow the Hilux out with the tractor, and the Landcruiser only just got out!
    Pugs Rule!

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  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger!
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    504's & 505's have higher ground clearance then some of those so called urban assault vehicles!

    Then have a look at how high a Citroen will go, although you are limited by speed depending on the height setting. There is an article on the ccc website about a guy in a DS who pulled off the road and managed to get stuck. Ending up lifting the car up to the next height level, regained traction and was off and running again!

    VK commodore with stuffed shocks (meaning it's clocked more tha 40k) can be a fun beast on a bad road NOT! Another that springs to mind is the old cart sprung falcon (ie a BA wagon)

    Like all things car, each model has their individual merits, it still amazes me just how good anythng French is compared with others!

    Regards
    Andrew

  24. #24
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    How much suspension travel does a Citroen have when the suspension is fully raised? I thought the suspension would be virtually solid. Is this true?

    John
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  25. #25
    nJm
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    Yes it is. Justin and I drove that Xantia, and us not knowing anything about Citroen's at the time, had the suspension on maximum height and headed for the nearest speed hump (all the Cit guys on here are probably crying by now!). Reminded me of being in one of those old Toyota Troop Carriers - no dampening, but amazing ride height.

    We put the suspension down to normal, went over another speed hump and I felt for a few seconds that the brakes had lost about 1/2 their power...

    These Sitrones are a funny lot

    I was talking to a guy at the British&European car day today and he thinks the Mercedes version of the hydro suspension (in things like the W116 450SEL) was better than the Citroen one - not as wallowy and didn't get caught out as much.
    Last edited by nJm; 14th March 2004 at 05:55 PM.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

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