RWC's - government strategy?
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 3 123 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 55
Like Tree36Likes

Thread: RWC's - government strategy?

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,100

    Default RWC's - government strategy?

    I am getting a 205 GTI inspected for roadworthy and the VICRoads designated inspector has found a long critical list of items that must be fixed for it to pass - slightly frayed seatbelts, some cracked-looking rubber seals, baffles in exhaust - the list goes on.

    This car apart, is there any wonder we hardly see any old cars on the road anymore? I fully support safe cars on our roads but realize that the workshops will lose their RWC-provision licenses if deemed to have passed a car too easily. I feel for their position on that too.

    It seems to the rule makers are systematically making it uneconomical to fix old cars and thus they are going to the crusher and everyone spends $12K on a Daewoo instead? Is there some overarching govt desire to get everyone into newer cars, for whatever reason? I am not an anti-govt type, just curious about the bigger picture.

    The corollary of course is that if you do stump up to keep an old car on the road, and fewer other people do, and its an original classic, then it makes that car rarer and presumably more valuable.

    Ash

    Advertisement
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Posts
    17,958

    Default

    I think you are forgetting that RWC requirements have not really changed since they were introduced. Safety is still safety, roadworthy still means roadworthy. Perhaps it's just that you have found yourself having to get your car to comply with what after all are just a reasonable set of rules?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  3. #3
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,822

    Default

    A RWC check is really only 1 mans opinion. If you think your being hard done by you can always go somewhere else, You'll pay for it again of course.
    Kim Luck likes this.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    8,692

    Default

    We went through this on another thread. The rules in Victoria are much the same as they have always been in NSW, and we have always had to do this annually. Owners of old cars here check them out before presenting them. If you have frayed belts, missing lights, leaky exhausts, loose steering, etc you can expect the inspector to come down on you.

    I took a 20+ year old car for inspection earlier this year, and did the look over myself first. All the mechanic workshop owner/ inspector picked was a split in a pedal pad, which I replaced immediately and showed him. If you have a relationship with the bloke you will often be allowed to quickly do the fix and come back while he waits to tell the registry, otherwise the registry gets told and you need a reinspection.

    There are still plenty of oldies on the road here. You hear tales of inspection places who pass you without looking. I've never met one, as these inspections keep workshops going. The bloke near me even uses an exhaust sniffer.

    PS If the cops defect a vehicle that's been recently registered, the inspector can get some attention. The loss of inspection rights seriously harms a workshop.
    Last edited by seasink; 6th December 2014 at 12:13 PM. Reason: ps

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I think you are forgetting that RWC requirements have not really changed since they were introduced. Safety is still safety, roadworthy still means roadworthy. Perhaps it's just that you have found yourself having to get your car to comply with what after all are just a reasonable set of rules?
    Thanks for all the comments. Re above, I guess I am not forgetting, rather asking that question. I conclude that the rules have not changed but instead that they are better enforced. I am not here to complain either and if this stuff needs fixing, then that is the answer.

    In VIC, sure there are some oldies on the road but seemingly far less than 10 yrs ago. For this I point to cheap new cars.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,425

    Default

    Frayed seat belts, taking your life in your own hands

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,748

    Default

    I'd like to see the whole rego inspection thing nationalised first...

    Rego inspectors are like Dave says, some are a bit over the top and some apply more expert judgement (the trick there is finding a mechanic thats expert...).

    Cars are just consumer products these days like anything else. As discussed in another thread about the changes in Europe, they are all moving to high reliability for a certain design life, and then cheap credit and cheap cars simply replaces the whole thing.

    Scrap car shredding machines are pretty effective and the mixed materials can be pretty well sorted into the recycling streams - a relatively small amount of "floc" goes to landfill.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    8,692

    Default

    Is there anything nationalised yet that has worked as well as before? When it comes to expensive and inefficient, it's local=bad; state=worse; commonwealth=off the scale worst. And there will still be some inspectors pickier than others.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,748

    Default

    Or to ensure they truly balls it up and make it completely unaffordable - privatise it...

    But it should at least be standardised...

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    8,692

    Default

    The rules are much the same everywhere, just expressed in different regs. The method and occasions of inspection is what varies between places.

    RE privatising; someone the other day reckoned Mr Average Electricity Account in NSW now pays $500 pa tax buried within his bill. The treasury mislabels this a dividend. I wonder if the treasury will give this up. Previous experience is that privatisation conditions are made so advantageous to the government (ie inflated price) that we all foot the cost later with the new owner.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denmark, Western Aust.
    Posts
    749

    Default

    The RAC of WA has opposed the introduction of annual inspections on the basis that the incidence of accidents involving 'unroadworthy' vehicles is the same for states that have annual inspections as it is for those that don't. They consider it a cost that has no proven benefit to road safety.
    jaahn, Kim Luck, 68 404 and 3 others like this.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I think you are forgetting that RWC requirements have not really changed since they were introduced. Safety is still safety, roadworthy still means roadworthy. Perhaps it's just that you have found yourself having to get your car to comply with what after all are just a reasonable set of rules?
    Picky defects for things like worn bushings in engine mounts and chips or abrasions of the windscreen are not something we recall from the past. The biggest problems I have with the roadworthy is that it attacks all the little optional things in cars, if my fog lights have a dead bulb I'm no worse off than someone who doesn't have fog lights. Similarly when I had a side airbag inappropriately deploy it made the car unroadworthy even if the seat were to be repaired, bringing it back to legal required replacement of the ECU and airbag module along with the seat. The airbags must be installed on the car because it came with them, fair enough if you buy a car that sort of missing equipment is found by an inspection but airbags are not mandated and I should be able to choose to live without them.

    That said I like the NSW system of actually driving around the block in a car and giving the braking system a measured test.
    406 HDi

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ingoldsby,QLD,Aust
    Posts
    483

    Default

    Wow.....this subject could get me ranting for hours, lol. If you're fairly mechanically minded and/or understanding of what common sense requires of a car in order to be declared roadworthy, you can generally make the whole exercise relatively painless. If your inspector starts picking ridiculous defects to nominate as safety hazards, there's a fair chance (IMO) that you've got the wrong bloke inspecting it.
    As they say, sometimes common sense ain't so common :-).....

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    2,592

    Default Hmmmm

    Hi
    Well I just cannot remember when I last saw that done; " I like the NSW system of actually driving around the block in a car and giving the braking system a measured test." Haven't other mechanics found out how to stomp on the tester to get a graph

    From my experience there is a large variation in the quality of inspections. Some are picky and knock back things that are OK, others are slack and do a minimum look, some are just normal. Just like mechanics doing any other job really. As I inspect and maintain my cars and my kids cars too, I am happy with a quicky that is minimal. But "my" mechanic knows that.
    jaahn

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    8,692

    Default

    There's more than a little unrealty here, just as in the last thread on the topic-
    chips or abrasions of the windscreen
    fog lights have a dead bulb
    side airbag inappropriately deploy
    You'd be done in a second here in NSW with those obvious problems. And we do checks annually. At least that minimises the number of defects that arise between inspections.

    As I said earlier, owners of old cars here check them over themselves or ask an opinion before they even present them for rego. That starts the inspector on the right foot. He is bound to check for lights, steering and suspension looseness, oil leaks and tyres but do you want him going over your engine bay in finest detail? He can pick your brake fluid if he wants to give you some extra expense.

    Present an obvious bomb and you'll get bombed.

    I have seen a car on the hoist while a bloke looked for rusty bits in obscure places. The owner asked for it. If a police team doing a breath check (ha! + tyres, etc, etc) can see it, both you and the inspector may be done over. Keep it in mind. The inspector will.


    [edit] Jaahn's post crossed mine, but he does as I do, respects the inspector mechanic by keeping the car sound; he knows it, and Jaahn gets decent treatment.
    Last edited by seasink; 6th December 2014 at 07:46 PM.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    379

    Default

    The car got through NSW inspections fine with its worn engine mounts and repaired windscreen.

    The fog lights and airbag are examples I provide of things that should be the owner/drivers choice. They're not a threat to anyone else on the road and not legally required in vehicles unless originally fitted. Airbags are particularly tricky as there is no way to economically maintain them, so they effectively give the car an expiration date determined by the manufacturer.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Posts
    17,958

    Default

    Airbags are a replaceable item, just like fog light globes. If you can't afford to maintain a car, you can't afford a car!
    68 404 likes this.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    379

    Default

    There are no provisions for the inspection or replacement of side airbags in my car, they're built inside of the seats and require an upholsterer to disassemble the seat for access.

    Also the manufacturers instructions are to replace all the airbags and belt pretensioners every 10 years. How long do you think they will provide the parts to do that job? All it takes is the government to mandate that sort of compliance in the roadworthy and we'll be stuck buying new cars.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    8,396

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hypermiler View Post

    That said I like the NSW system of actually driving around the block in a car and giving the braking system a measured test.
    There are two systems in nsw.. The brake test and the counter top test.
    I've never seen a counter top fail the test.

    Jo
    addo, 68 404 and SLC206 like this.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,051

    Default

    That said I like the NSW system of actually driving around the block in a car and giving the braking system a measured test.
    You can't do a meaningful test a stated standard that needs to be complied with.

    In Victoria the brake test is :

    RWC's - government strategy?-brakes.jpg

    The rest of the rules here:

    https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/~/me...web.ashx?la=en

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Posts
    17,958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hypermiler View Post
    There are no provisions for the inspection or replacement of side airbags in my car, they're built inside of the seats and require an upholsterer to disassemble the seat for access.Also the manufacturers instructions are to replace all the airbags and belt pretensioners every 10 years. How long do you think they will provide the parts to do that job? All it takes is the government to mandate that sort of compliance in the roadworthy and we'll be stuck buying new cars.
    If there is no provision to access the side seat airbags, why would the manufacturer specify their replacement at 10 years and how would they replace them? Seats are only basically a spring frame with covered padding over them. Hardly rocket science. Another thought for you, if the car was built under ADR's which included airbags and pretensioners, the fact that they have not been replaced after 10 years as mandated by the manufacturer actually makes your vehicle unroadworthy, which is why I traded my RX4 in at 9.5 years. :-)
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    If there is no provision to access the side seat airbags, why would the manufacturer specify their replacement at 10 years and how would they replace them? Seats are only basically a spring frame with covered padding over them. Hardly rocket science. Another thought for you, if the car was built under ADR's which included airbags and pretensioners, the fact that they have not been replaced after 10 years as mandated by the manufacturer actually makes your vehicle unroadworthy, which is why I traded my RX4 in at 9.5 years. :-)
    I've done a quick google and there is some indication Renault only sell the seat+ airbag (at least overseas)

    Perhaps addo et al could have a look at the online parts guide and see if the airbag is available separately?

    This would certainly explain why a large number of 5-7 year old low ks car are at DIY wreckers with "blown" aairbags and presumably pre- tensioners.

    The other thought is if the RWC tester can't access the airbag how would the tester know if it's been replaced or original?

  23. #23
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Icon7

    Many of the older PSA airbags are NFP.

    Quite a lot of minor collision cars are submitted for assessment with deliberately triggered airbags. It's one way to nearly assure a write-off, especially in cars where the screen and dash have to come out for airbag renewal. Insurers don't download the airbag data and it's not legally tested here yet, so that makes it carte blanche for the claims manipulators.

    Re the "expiry" date of airbags in early 2000s cars - I seem to remember enforcement of this condition was waived in light of a general administrative decision to monitor what happens (ie, spontaneous deployments or non deployment). Evidence of truly spontaneous deployment is sketchy.

    Most airbag modules will trigger twice, even when not "reset" on the black market. The dash light does not extinguish because there is data which has not been nulled.

    I love the NSW style Brake-Testa as it is a personal challenge to see how well my cars pull up.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Posts
    17,958

    Default

    My experience with explosives lends me to believe that the whole detonating system used in airbags (and pretensioners) are very robust. Australia sets a higher impact threshold for G force operated safety devices than for instance the USA, so that the "spontaneous" activation of these systems is extremely unlikely. I've had the pleasure of exploding ancient military armaments and separately firing marine flares over thirty years old and they always work or go bang, depending on their intended use. It's likely that airbags and pretensioners will outlive the useful life of the car unless called upon to fulfil their functions earlier.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  25. #25
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    I believe initially questions of lifespan were raised based on sac fabric degradation and the stitching's integrity. I have no source to back this up, just a fuzzy recollection. My knowledge of sodium azide pyrotechnics is negligible.

Page 1 of 3 123 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •