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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Default Caught speeding again

    I have an issue with the Queensland police. They implement the law too harshly, and exploit the margins of law to overzealously issue traffic tickets.

    I live near a school. Fair enough.....one must be careful near schools. However I was booked going away from the school zone...a fair way away...and heading towards a 60 kmh zone on a road that is REALLY wide where I was caught.

    Details as follows :

    Brisbane suburban speeds were dropped from 60 kmh down to 50 kmh in recent years, though the limit is still 60 on main roads.

    There is a legal requirement that within 100 metres of a 60 kmh zone, speed guns may not be used to book people for doing over 50 kmh. I was booked doing 63 kmh in a 50 zone, heading towards a 60 zone, about 150 metres from the intersection at which the 50 zone turns into 60.

    I have never thought of this kind of thing as revenue raising, as many others do. I used to think it was overzealousness by self-righteous officers who genuinely thought they are preventing lives being lost in the road toll. But I'm not so sure now.

    When I complained to the officer involved, he said that I should take it up with the people who make the laws. But this is nonsense....they IMPLEMENT laws. It is up to the police to implement the law in either a lax or zealous manner, but preferably in between.
    I don't see the police implementing every little law they see broken, and booking every person they see breaking the road rules. .

    I DO see them exploiting the margins of laws and booking people like myself, who are heading AWAY from a school, out of school hours, and in JUST that section of road where most people speed up just a bit. The road is REALLY wide there.
    Elsewhere I drive carefully, and many people like myself are being put under undue financial strain by being booked in these marginal areas. Not to mention the points.

    There are always places on 50 kmh suburban roads where it is perfectly safe to do 60 rather than 50.
    However the Transport Department can hardly be expected to put out signs WITHIN speed zones, saying "it is ok to do 60 kmh in the next 200 metres, but after that you must slow down".
    These places do exist though. So why is it that the police mostly place their speed traps in these areas, and not where it is ACTUALLY dangerous ? Why exploit the margins ? Bunch of turkeys they are.

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    Be glad you don't live in Sydney. This sort of thing is normal, and it is about revenue.

    Even when a school gets a bridge and a fenced off footpath, the limits and cameras remain.
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    Beano, at least you're safe from those naughty men on big motorbikes.

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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    I have little sympathy for those who break the law, then complain when they're pulled over & booked.

    It would seem you've decided to interpret how the law should be implemented even though you''re aware of the requirements around schools.

    Justification that the road is wide and you were travelling away from the school are just excuses.
    Perhaps the Police put the speed trap there to see if drivers could be trusted to abide rather than re-interpret the law.

    Not what you probably wanted to hear, but that's how I see it.
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    My sympathies Beano, I'm seriously low on demerit points for the same reason. Can anyone clarify with a certain amount of certainty what actually constitutes a 60km zone when no signs actually exist..is it a suburban feeder road with a centre line that's 60..?

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    In NSW, you're supposed to assume it's 50 unless told otherwise. Maybe Queensland has come into line?

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    put in a court election. the worst that can happen is you pay a modest court cost fee plus the fine. magistrates can be receptive to a credible story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6 View Post
    I have little sympathy for those who break the law, then complain when they're pulled over & booked.

    It would seem you've decided to interpret how the law should be implemented even though you''re aware of the requirements around schools.

    Justification that the road is wide and you were travelling away from the school are just excuses.
    Perhaps the Police put the speed trap there to see if drivers could be trusted to abide rather than re-interpret the law.

    Not what you probably wanted to hear, but that's how I see it.
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    My greatest objection to the process, nationally, is the lack of public access to statistics. Offence categories (this would include the variations of speeding by gravity), vehicles by make, model, year, colour, the driver's age and gender, time/date and postcode of offence, postcode of driver, P plate status.

    Transparency through public access, would help build confidence that laws were being implemented reasonably rather than opportunistically.
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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    My sympathies Beano, I'm seriously low on demerit points for the same reason. Can anyone clarify with a certain amount of certainty what actually constitutes a 60km zone when no signs actually exist..is it a suburban feeder road with a centre line that's 60..?
    Sorry....I should have clarified : there is an intersection where the 50 zone meets 60.

    What I ALMOST did was stop way, WAY before the policeman to demonstrate clearly that I was not endangering anyone. I almost did, when I saw him step out...in order to do a U-turn and take off.

    Thanks for your sympathies, folks (apart from the one who is in every crowd )


    Addo got it right : they need to build confidence that laws were being implemented reasonably rather than opportunistically. At the moment they have done the reverse. I mean : fair cop if I was doing something dangerous or stupid, but this marginal, opportunistic stuff is just insulting.

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    JBN
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    Get over it. Speeding fines are just like petrol excise. Its the cost of motoring. I look on the whole exercise as voluntary taxation. In fact speeding is the ONLY tax I don't mind paying as I am enjoying myself by doing it. I also know how FEW times I get caught, so most of the time I do what I enjoy doing ard rarely have to foot the bill for the entertainment.

    Seriously, I don't give a shit about the law. Man made law that is. I obey the laws of nature. They never change. Mans laws change on change of government. Why are they so interested in the exact speed YOU were doing (ie to the nearest kilometre) when at best they just select a random number as long as it ends in 0 for the speed zones? So they work to an accuracy of 10kph, but expect you to be accurate to 1 kph.

    The main law of nature I believe in is survival. My aim when I get behind the wheel is "Don't hit anyone or anything". That in essence covers all theat the law tries to achieve. If everyone, every day, complied with that, the road toll would be zero.

    I have never been pulled over for speeding in my 2CV, nor have I been stopped when they have put a lazer on me. For a moment I think they doubt their own equipment. I have lost a licence for speeding solely when driving 2CVs, by fixed speed cameras. Cameras have no emotions and no lattitude.

    Also, I don't have Alzheimers, so I can remember the speed of many roads when they were in mph and the various limits that have applied over the years as the authorities are trying to determine the answer. The easiest way to get the correct speed for a stretch of road is to have no signage for a time. Instead just measure the speed that 95% of the vehicles don't exceed and post that as the speed limit. I am obviously not public service material.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post
    I mean : fair cop if I was doing something dangerous or stupid, but this marginal, opportunistic stuff is just insulting.
    beano, welcome to the Zero Tolerance Society, where laws are enforced inflexibly on the basis that breaking a law warrants punishment in itself, and irrespective of the purpose of the law.

    and note that ZTS applies very strongly in school zones!

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    Like JBN I have lived dangerously over the years, but unfortunately the vehicles I've driven recently are a bit faster than a 2CV with a cyclone behind it. This has over the years brought forth the issue of fines, thus there are places in this wide brown land which for me require some diligence navigating.

    I now like to be reasonable on bitumen, which is generally where speed cameras exist, however I think that trying to average 80 kmh on some especially winding Victorian forest tracks is a personal challenge which I'm unable to resist, generally without the risk of photographic supervision.........
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    133 kph in 110 zone between Winton and Longreach.Not another vehicle or animal in sight on an absolutely straight, wide, well maintained road .Visibility 100%.
    Newish ute, regularly serviced. Stopping distance not much.
    Road train passes doing about 120kph, sounds horn.
    Copper denies he's a mate, but won't enter discussion of why RT , with stopping distance of several hundred metres is not more dangerous than 4WD ute doing 133kph.

    It's revenue raising, NOT road safety!

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    Quote Originally Posted by exvet View Post
    133 kph in 110 zone between Winton and Longreach.Not another vehicle or animal in sight on an absolutely straight, wide, well maintained road .Visibility 100%.
    Newish ute, regularly serviced. Stopping distance not much.
    Road train passes doing about 120kph, sounds horn.
    Copper denies he's a mate, but won't enter discussion of why RT , with stopping distance of several hundred metres is not more dangerous than 4WD ute doing 133kph.

    It's revenue raising, NOT road safety!
    So can we enquire as to how you came to the conclusion that the road train was doing "about" 120kmh? Does your expertise extend to Police requests for you to estimate the speeds of any other vehicles you may come across?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Hang on. How did the road train overtake you if you were doing 133k/h and he was doing 120? Did you mean you were doing 113?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Wowser.
    Or normal law abiding citizen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordman View Post
    Or normal law abiding citizen.
    typically one and the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exvet View Post
    Copper denies he's a mate, but won't enter discussion of why RT , with stopping distance of several hundred metres is not more dangerous than 4WD ute doing 133kph.
    !
    to be fair, i am guessing the copper was busy booking you and didnt actually clock the truck, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post

    Seriously, I don't give a shit about the law. Man made law that is. I obey the laws of nature. They never change. Mans laws change on change of government. Why are they so interested in the exact speed YOU were doing (ie to the nearest kilometre) when at best they just select a random number as long as it ends in 0 for the speed zones? So they work to an accuracy of 10kph, but expect you to be accurate to 1 kph.

    The main law of nature I believe in is survival. My aim when I get behind the wheel is "Don't hit anyone or anything". That in essence covers all theat the law tries to achieve. If everyone, every day, complied with that, the road toll would be zero.
    Good attitude !

    What irks me is that where I was caught, there is a slight dip, and after that a longish hill leading up to the intersection, so that peoples' natural tendency is to speed up a little in order to avoid having their car labour up the hill. That, together with the other factors I mentioned, makes me irate that I should be targeted and fined a large amount of money. Being not long till Christmas and it's associated expenses makes it even worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    beano, welcome to the Zero Tolerance Society, where laws are enforced inflexibly on the basis that breaking a law warrants punishment in itself, and irrespective of the purpose of the law.
    The thing is : it's not just a faceless society. There are actual PEOPLE doing this. Policemen. Where do they GET these idiots ? Whenever I've tried to engage one of them in debate, I soon found that their intellects are quite stunted and they use illogic. Morons !
    It is as if they were bullied as children, so in order to compensate, they try to exercise power over others in their adult lives.
    Last edited by Beano; 3rd December 2014 at 10:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Hang on. How did the road train overtake you if you were doing 133k/h and he was doing 120? Did you mean you were doing 113?
    Errrr, I was stopped and having my details recorded by PC Plod.
    I guessed @ RT speed, but he DEFINITELY took his foot off when he saw the copper and me.
    Since you ask, the change in engine note.

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    The driver of the road train may have lifted his foot to avoid exceeding the speed limit, unlike other drivers who are unwilling or unable to stay within the confines of the law and then complain that they're being hard done by when they get booked? I've had my share of speeding fines in over 50 years of driving and I can't recall one that was not my own fault!
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    I agree that it was my fault. My foot on my accelerator, me not concentrating, my ute doing over the speed limit, which is an arbitrary number that takes no account of traffic volume, road conditions,etc etc.
    I spent 15 yrs in UK, and got stopped ONCE as a courtesy , to tell me a tail light had blown. I returned here and lost my licence by "totting up" in less than three years.All speeding offences on country roads!
    My driving style had not changed, but the attitude of the coppers here and over there is entirely different.
    Here, transgress, and get booked, there, drive safely at almost ANY speed, and you are let go.
    Coppers are quite popular in UK, but resented out here, and Pommie drivers are (or were) much better mannered than out here, but, of course, there's only ONE set of road rules nation wide, and there is no kudos in booking someone from out of the county over there (unless he's another copper!).

    There is probably more good done with a friendly warning than a $200 fine , but the attitude of both the public and the various police forces needs to change.

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    We should all have realised some years back that speed is the new enemy. This is why it's important to gridlock cities.
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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    The times I've been pulled over by the police I've treated them with respect, accepted their claim and in most cases was let off with a warning.

    I didn't try arguing or telling them their interpretation or implementation of the law was wrong, called them turkeys, acted like I knew better or give them attitude.

    We've only heard one side of the event ie: from the aggrieved party.

    Why won't people take responsibility for their actions rather than blaming others or circumstances when caught?
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