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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Default for Shane and Bob

    Here we go shane, here is an example of how to tie on a load of slippery sheets.

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    Wood support (increases the point pressure)
    2 straps on the length, one (pale Blue) pulling down and holding the sheets with tension, and the other one (red) just holding them together.
    Then a light lash from front to rear.
    for Shane and Bob-trailer-straps.jpg

    Bob, you mentioned in another post ratchet straps on the side of the road.
    They'd be the cheap bunnings version of the pro models, with simple non captive hooks.
    You wont find ones with ends like this because they dont fall off when the tension is released when the load shifts.
    for Shane and Bob-ends.jpg

    Also here is what you want to see on your ratchet strap..1000kg lashing or greater.
    for Shane and Bob-1000.jpg

    Unless your rope is spectra which has very little elasticity or stretch (and is a bitch to tie), you wont get anywhere near the tension and holding ability with ropes without a lot of clever knot tying.
    When was the last time you saw an excavator tied on to its flat bed with rope???


    Jo

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Side to side was ok for me ... as it was contained. The one blue strap lengthways wouldn't have been enough. I used to big ropes wrapping around the back of the load, back to the front underneath so "completely containing the sheets" after they moved. In the 20minute trip from there, they'd still walked back about 2" cutting a path through the masonite as they moved.

    I tell you mosonite is bloody deadly stuff. The only way to carry it is contained within 4 walls of a trailers... ie: a mechanical barrier. numerous wide tiedown straps completely surrounding it from both axis would also work.

    Certainly I'd never move masonite on a trailer without serious thoughts about restraining the impossibly slippery sh!t. It "walks" against itself in a way they defies belief. eg: I can easily with one hand glide a 4+ meter long sheet of the stuff against another sheet likes it's weightless and frictionless.

    You only have one sheet there.... One sheet is a peice of piss. Try 10 x 5mm sheets of masonite layed ontop of each other.... It the "dust" contained within the sheets that makes it walk like it's on an air bench with the sheet hovering on air.

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    Shane L.
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    You are not listening shane.

    Read it again, and look again.

    Those sheets are 'hard tied' and cannot move independantly to the trailer.
    Would not matter if they were teflon coated wet ice sheets.

    That is what the LVL's are for, to make a high friction point and to give the ratchet strap a more solid mounting point than a pissweak trailer.

    You are wrong about needing 4 sides.
    Every delivery truck i see that has sheets or even lumber has no sides and simply uses friction delivered by the ratchet straps to hold the load.
    You cant safely get that sort of strap load on a lightweight box trailer, but you can with the wood in place.
    ALso, you said you used rope.....Fail.


    By the way, Dont get a job as gate keeper at a lumber yard.
    There are 4 sheets of 18mm MDF 2700x1200.

  4. #4
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    Masonite is a lot easier if you first strap the bundle before you load it. Ditto dressed floor and deck boards, whose slipperiness is something else again. It's much easier to tie on a bundle.

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    You are not listening shane.

    Read it again, and look again.

    Those sheets are 'hard tied' and cannot move independantly to the trailer.
    Would not matter if they were teflon coated wet ice sheets.

    That is what the LVL's are for, to make a high friction point and to give the ratchet strap a more solid mounting point than a pissweak trailer.

    You are wrong about needing 4 sides.
    Every delivery truck i see that has sheets or even lumber has no sides and simply uses friction delivered by the ratchet straps to hold the load.
    You cant safely get that sort of strap load on a lightweight box trailer, but you can with the wood in place.
    ALso, you said you used rope.....Fail.


    By the way, Dont get a job as gate keeper at a lumber yard.
    There are 4 sheets of 18mm MDF 2700x1200.
    It would cut a path through the blue strap and moved after 20km at 100km/h. Been there, done that. There's not enough containing them lengthwise to stop the sheets moving against each other. The sheets I had were 4.5m x 2m from memory.... about 3mm thick.... Amazing stuff the way it walks due to vibrations while moving along. Two big thick wide ratchet straps would probably work without cutting a path through the stuff.

    That one strap lengthways is way less than I had trying to stop the bloody things walking.

    You have nothing like the "slipperyness" with small very thick sheets. Try very thin and large so they kinda "float" against each other.

    I needed a car trailer with a 2meter wide bed to move them!
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 23rd June 2014 at 05:59 PM.
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    ............When was the last time you saw an excavator tied on to its flat bed with rope???Jo
    This might seem like deja vu so I apologise if I've said this before!

    For interest, the ADE 4X4 and 6X6 Army trucks left the IH factory at Dandenong on railway flatcars, held down by ropes and nothing else. The reason for this was that it was found that when the vehicles were chained down hard for their delivery trips that subsequently in the field`that they suffered wheel bearing failures very early in their lives. The bearings were being "brinelled" by the expansion joints in the railway lines because they were fixed in position by the chains and were constantly hammered at the same point. Tying the vehicles down with ropes allowed the bearings to rotate enough in either direction to avoid "brinelling".
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails for Shane and Bob-brinelling.jpg  
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    This might seem like deja vu so I apologise if I've said this before!

    For interest, the ADE 4X4 and 6X6 Army trucks left the IH factory at Dandenong on railway flatcars, held down by ropes and nothing else. The reason for this was that it was found that when the vehicles were chained down hard for their delivery trips that subsequently in the field`that they suffered wheel bearing failures very early in their lives. The bearings were being "brinelled" by the expansion joints in the railway lines because they were fixed in position by the chains and were constantly hammered at the same point. Tying the vehicles down with ropes allowed the bearings to rotate enough in either direction to avoid "brinelling".
    Jo is saying he used tie-downs. There's nothing wrong with ropes, unless you don't know how to pull them down properly. I could easily torque a 12mm lashing rope enough to snap it just by using a truckies knot .... to pull the another truckies knot .....

    The best aspect of ratchet tie-downs is there wide, so you don't risk bruising/bending/breaking what your pulling down as much.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    The best aspect of ratchet tie-downs is there wide, so you don't risk bruising/bending/breaking what your pulling down as much.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Hello…..Have you ever used big ratchet straps???
    These things are designed for solid deck trucks and heavy loads.

    If I go hard on mine I'll fold the trailer in half and god knows what condition that will leave the load in.
    I'm serious, the metal rails will get ripped clean off.

    That is why i don't lend my trailer anymore. Sick and tired of getting it back bent (not talking about you, Addo)
    If I wrapped a wardrobe with a HD strap and started tightening, the wardrobe would be crushed like a tin can under my foot.

    Last week, laying a particle board floor I couldn't get one of the tongues to seat cleanly in the grove and close the gap.
    Sledge hammer didn't work, but ratchet strap made lite work of it.
    However, contrary to your opinion that ratchet straps are easy on your load, the bit of packing timber that spread the load onto the flooring was written off by the strap's pressure.

    The 'thing wrong with rope', and something many do not apreciate is it's elasticity.
    Its easy to use rope for soft tie down, but for hard tie down, its just too much PITA to bother using .

    Shane,you probably could rig up a truckers hitch pulling another truckers hitch and possibly attempt to bust a 6000bl/f SWL rope (I'd like to see it) but by the time you are up to your second knot, the guy with the ratchet strap would be 3 km down the road.

  9. #9
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    several "G" clamps help hold sheets together,
    learnt the hardway after 6 sheets of yellow tongue sliding out the back in Canberra Av !!!

    who would have thought a borrowed tired Hi old ace van would have enough acceleration to leave the sheets behind ??

    as they say in the Toy adds Bu.......r

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine View Post
    who would have thought a borrowed tired Hi old ace van would have enough acceleration to leave the sheets behind ??
    You must have floored it!!!

    Jo

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine View Post
    several "G" clamps help hold sheets together,
    learnt the hardway after 6 sheets of yellow tongue sliding out the back in Canberra Av !!!

    who would have thought a borrowed tired Hi old ace van would have enough acceleration to leave the sheets behind ??

    as they say in the Toy adds Bu.......r
    Actually ..... the "G" clamp idea is a good one ... You need something that holds the [email protected] firmly together so they can't walk against each other. I reckon 4 big (big as in wide) ratchet tie downs would do the trick. You don't actually tie the load tot he trailer with them, you lay the 4 of them on the trailer (one each end from both sides ... so two lengthway, two across the load). Load the sheets ontop of them, then "wrap" the sheets and ratchet them together so there one big rigid locked together lump. Then tie that lump to the trailer however you desire. The straps would need to be wide so the boards don't cut through them trying to escape (Those monster ratchet tiedowns would destroy the sheets if you weren't gentle).

    Joe is right, I reckon you could fold a trailer up with one of the big ratchet tiedowns. They have there place. There not always easier than a rope IMO. If the webbing is too long ... or too short there mongrel things to ratchet down without slipping or filling the capacity of the ratchets drum.

    I'd take 1/2 dozen good quality ratchet tie downs .............. and 1 good rope for the times where the ratchets won't really work out easily.... Now where did I plant that money tree again .....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  12. #12
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    No need for a money tree. 2 ton ratchet straps with those locking anchor points are only about $25 each. I have half a dozen of them. For anything big and heavy they are the best. The best anchor points are next to mounting points for the tie-down rail. If you anchor to the tie-down rail in the middle of its span it flexes too much.

    You don't have to fill the drum: you just pull the strap through them until there is not much slack before you start to tighten them. The best way to tidy up leftover webbing is to roll it back up and tie a piece of hayband or string or some such through the middle of the roll and fasten it to something.

    Roger

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    No need for a money tree. 2 ton ratchet straps with those locking anchor points are only about $25 each. I have half a dozen of them. For anything big and heavy they are the best. The best anchor points are next to mounting points for the tie-down rail. If you anchor to the tie-down rail in the middle of its span it flexes too much.

    You don't have to fill the drum: you just pull the strap through them until there is not much slack before you start to tighten them. The best way to tidy up leftover webbing is to roll it back up and tie a piece of hayband or string or some such through the middle of the roll and fasten it to something.

    Roger
    See the problem..... Even cheap $25 tiedowns. That's $150 worth.... For $15 I could buy 20m of 12mm lashing rope. To be fair, there's not much you couldn't tie down with 3 ratchet tiedowns....... One day, when I have some $$$$ to spare.

    I'd probably buy two big chunky tiedowns first. You see I'd modify the car trailer so I could tie the car around its front wheels with them.

    Hey roger, you were lunky. My brother inlaw borrowed the car trailer two weeks after you returned it....... Bloody brakes jammed on in albury wadongo on him..... He rang me saying he thought he'd finally managed to release one wheel..... Yep, you spotted it too right.... " what do you mean, there both on" ... Says I. " mate the master cylinder must be stuck on then.... Try unscrewing or cutting a line...." .... Gees we were lucky there that it didn't happen too us with a heavy car on gather than a lightweight little teardrop 'van. Best bit? The bloody master is the only brake component that I replaced when I got the trailer..... Bloody Chinese crap these days..


    Seeya
    Shane l.


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  14. #14
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    20 metres of rope is too much to do the job of one tie-down and not enough to do the job of two. I reckon you need about 15 metres to do the job of one 10 metre tie-down, because of the extra length required for the truckies hitches. And a rope that is as strong as a proper tie-down is pretty thick and unweildy.

    A cheap tilt tray truck is looking better all the time.

    Roger

  15. #15
    bob
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    G'day Jo,

    delay on response, sorry mate, bit busy finalising the domestic move and odd jobs at Skip...

    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    ........Bob, you mentioned in another post ratchet straps on the side of the road.
    They'd be the cheap bunnings version of the pro models, with simple non captive hooks.
    You wont find ones with ends like this because they dont fall off when the tension is released when the load shifts..........


    Jo
    My relocation trips are on the preferred route of the Bdouble timber boys, so, most of the straps I see on the road are bits of those wide dirty white things - bit of a worry, I get the jitters every time I see one of them coming towards me....

    Being totally old fashioned, I use ropes and live with their failings. If you take the attitude that no matter what care you take that the buggers will move and slip you will also be aware of what is happening with your load and not be too proud to stop and fix any problems.

    Done the heavy slippery sheets thing, 16mm mdf, they are right mongrels. Like said above, you have to contain them, I use the rope around the load and tension it back on both sides more or less as you look to have done with your strap, similarly, front to back for fore and aft movement. They still moved, forget how many there was, but the stack was a foot high at least and bags of overhang front & rear, but there was no undue excitement getting them home.

    Worst load fright was a stack of RHS on the high rack on the old Toyota, about 30 full lengths, all tied down as tight as. Had a sudden stop, it all held, well the outside ones did, the tubes in the centre of the stack all started to spear out the front..... Thankfully they didn't come right out, lesson learnt about how slippery these oiled tubes are, changed knickers when I got home......

    All good fun.

    cheers,
    Bob

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