Luminition Vs 123 Ignition
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  1. #1
    JBN
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    Default Luminition Vs 123 Ignition

    I have two 2CVs. One has Luminition electronic ignition for as long as I have owned it (1993) as it was installed by the previous owner. It has caused no problems to date.

    The other, Daffy Duck, my avatar, was rebuilt in 2008. The points were replaced with 123 EVO electronic ignition. The EVO version is the top of the 123 range and allows variable dwell settings (covering the complete 2CV and derivatives range) and has the facilities for vacuum advance (not standard on 2CVs).

    Both cars have idential 602cc engines and identical Harley aftermarket modern resin coils, which pack a bigger punch than the standard coil and are less prone to overheat.

    The 123 ignition car won't start. No spark. I have swapped coils, but still no spark. There is power in the wire leading to the 123. There is no power getting to the spark plugs.

    If I measure the voltage across the battery terminals, it is 12.4V. If I measure the voltage across the coil terminals, it is 6.5V.

    I don't know much about car electrics, but it looks like the 123 ignition is cactus.

    The night I found out something was wrong (it was a Thursday late night shopping night), I started the car to go home, drove for less than 5 minutes to exit the parking lot and wait to turn onto the street. As the cars in front pulled into the street, my car's engine died and it coasted across the road and I parked it. It has not gone since.

    This is a Raid car so I want a reliable ignition system. I am tempted to go to Luminition. I had such a system on a CX for 5 years and was very happy with it. It was used on British armoured vehicles so it can handle rough conditions. On my other 2CV, the module is mounted on the bulkhead, so it is well clear of water and as such should be better than 123 in creek crossings.

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    Has anyone any printable advice to offer? I handed in my M16 when I departed Vietnam, so shooting the duck is not an option.

    John

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I recently saw a duck with dead "DGNition" electronic ignition. After months off the road with other issues, the owner just wanted to drive it again. Put in some used points and off it went - he's bought a standard 123 to try now. My thinking is that heat kills them. They might be fixable.

    What about using the points to trigger an electronic module?

  3. #3
    JBN
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    When I put in the 123 ignition, I think I threw away all the points related stuff - the box, cam, weights, lid. I take your point that heat may be the killer. Another reason for Luminition with its module (with in built heatsink and fins) placed well away from the engine. The only thing with Luminition thats near the engine is the optical cutter and the LED light. In the 2CV that has Luminition, the overheating coil was the big problem. Always carried a spare in the boot and could replace coils within the cycle time of the traffic lights. The Harley coils seems to have fixed that.

    John

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I handed in my M16 when I departed Vietnam, so shooting the duck is not an option.

    John
    I was always led to believe that 12G was far more effective on ducks than a 223 calibre
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
    Every day is a good day

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I remember picking the pellets out of curried duck, and putting them to the side of my plate.

    Normally I think Lumenition is a poor cousin of inductive trigger ignitions, but in this application, it may be just right.

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    I had 123 ignition - the standard one for several years on my duck including two raids and several big trips. Until one day shopping the ignition died, no sparks nothing. Ulitmately the 123 had failed for no apparent reason. But because I was happy never having to check points I replaced it with another 123.

    If you bought your 123 from the local supplier I would approach him in the first instance.

    Ian S

  7. #7
    JBN
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    I have spoken to the Australian supplier. He mentioned that a batch of PC boards on 123 ignitions suffered from some dry solder joints. He has obtained a replacement PC board that he has sent to me. I will install it over the next few weeks and see if that is the fix. I expect it will be as there is not much to them other than the PC board. I will also have a good look at the old PC board to see if I can spot a dry solder joint. Either way, I will return the old PC board to him as he may be able to refurbish it as a replacement.

    Long term, I will swap the Luminition from one 2CV with the 123 from the other. The 123 EVO has a vacuum advance facility that would be more use to a town 2CV (plus one can experiment with different dwell curves). The Raid car will get the Luminition and I will take a replacement contact points box so that I won't be stranded in the outback somewhere.

    John

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    yep, I always take a replacement contact points box on long trips

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I have spoken to the Australian supplier. He mentioned that a batch of PC boards on 123 ignitions suffered from some dry solder joints. He has obtained a replacement PC board that he has sent to me. I will install it over the next few weeks and see if that is the fix. I expect it will be as there is not much to them other than the PC board. I will also have a good look at the old PC board to see if I can spot a dry solder joint. Either way, I will return the old PC board to him as he may be able to refurbish it as a replacement.

    Long term, I will swap the Luminition from one 2CV with the 123 from the other. The 123 EVO has a vacuum advance facility that would be more use to a town 2CV (plus one can experiment with different dwell curves). The Raid car will get the Luminition and I will take a replacement contact points box so that I won't be stranded in the outback somewhere.

    John
    I hadn't seen this thread when I posted in the Citroen area. Can you pass on details of the Australian supplier to me please, just so I have it in a file? So far I'm really pleased with 123, because the CX is starting better and running more smoothly on idle, less sensitive to choke position after a cold start etc.

    The underlying issue with all these electronics of course remains that if they die, you can't do much. However I reckon that mostly they don't die. Our 1990s Peugeot and Citroen haven't missed a beat in nearly 20 years.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I think you'll find it's Ted Cross, who occasionally posts as "hawk".

  11. #11
    JBN
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    Yes, he is the man.

    John

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I think you'll find it's Ted Cross, who occasionally posts as "hawk".
    Thanks to both. At this address I suppose? 123 Ignition Systems
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  13. #13
    JBN
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    Yes, his contact details are under ORDERS.

    John

  14. #14
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Yes, his contact details are under ORDERS.

    John
    Thanks John
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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