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    Fellow Frogger! julian b's Avatar
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    Default dodgy vic club permits

    Driving through Melbourne/s northern suburbs I have spotted some unlikely candidates for club plates lately .I saw an 8o/s Japanese drop side ute yesterday in not very good condition . Also saw a very average white Mitsubishi van the other day ,as well as the American doughnut van at vic market [which is obviously being used commercially]. I wonder if they all belong to the same club.

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    The donut van at the market can have sign writing, however the vehicle itself cannot be used for the making or transporting of goods or services where money or favours are involved.

    So if you buy a part for your histori. Car, you cannot pick it up in said car...

    I agree that there are a few dodgers, but the day is coming, those cars and clubs found to flount our great club laws will be dealt with.


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    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Report them!

    If the weeds are not removed the true flowers will not be allowed to bloom and EVERYTHING will wither.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 404 View Post
    Report them!

    If the weeds are not removed the true flowers will not be allowed to bloom and EVERYTHING will wither.

    Dave
    I agree report them. Because under the club permit system the clubs are responsible for the eligibility of the vehicles and compliance with the permit scheme.
    We now have a very good scheme and don't want it stuffed up by a few cowboys.
    If you've got too much traction, you haven't got enough horse power ...




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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I would kill for the Vic scheme in NSW. It's one of the few instances of "commonsense" legislation Australia has. Abusers should be brought to book.

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    I agree, but does anyone know of a system in place to report it? Remember that club cars don't have to be all neat and shiny and original, its up to the clubs to pass those vehicles that uphold its values.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    strange bit is .... I see club permit cars everywhere. I even saw an XF falcon yesterday............... Not a single solitary one would I say is flouting the rules.

    I don't understand why poeple are always so concerned "someone, somewhere" is flouting rules How do you know th e 80's japanese drop side ute hasn't had the same owner from new that doesn't want to part with it, so has moved it sideways to a club permit.

    You guys realise, regardless of what car they are driving, they aren't "flouting" any rules, as long as they fill in there log book it's all sweet.

    On a positive note, what was the donut van, it sounds interesting

    I still don't get how anyone could think someone driving a 25+ year old car is saving money. For starters they can only use it 90days a year. So to "save" money they'd have to have four 25+ year old vehicles on club permits to drive each day.... Which == standard registration costs. not only that they'll have the upkeep on 4 vehicles, and 4 lots of insurance to pay.

    I have a better idea, how about everyone stops bloody whinging they think "someone" must be abusing the scheme, and just enjoy all the amazing old cars you see out and about on the roads these days. This club permit scheme has absolutely changed the cars you see on the roads. You NEVER used to see any of these old classic cars out.

    I couldn't give two hoots if your offended that someone is driving a commonbore/falcon/datson 120y on a permit. Who are you to judge what is considered "pretty enough" or "classic enough" to be allowed to be driven.

    I just don't get some people ... sigh ......

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    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    G'day,
    I think the concern is; that if enough dodgey players are found, then the scheme might be scrapped.
    And, who is to say is enough ?
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    It's not the being driven bit that really gets me, but the apparent use of a club plated car for an ongoing commercial endeavour.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug206gti View Post
    G'day,
    I think the concern is; that if enough dodgey players are found, then the scheme might be scrapped.
    And, who is to say is enough ?
    Define dodgy ... Is dodgy a car you don't like. So if someone likes 1980's corallas are they immediately "dodgy" 'cos you don't like them ?

    I don't get what anyone is concerned about.
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  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    It's not the being driven bit that really gets me, but the apparent use of a club plated car for an ongoing commercial endeavour.
    What's the big deal. If it's true, the club that issued the permit needs to be shown the rules. I'm pretty sure it'll be fine myself.... There is a LOT of interesting old commercial trucks/cars out there (eg: mr whippy van from the 60's / 70's) Why shouldn't they be allowed a club permit, so long as there not selling icecreams commercially

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I am taking the line from Julian's comments about the donut van, that it is being used commercially.

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    Just like in NSW an historic plated vehicle cannot be used for commercial gain. That is why commercial wedding vehicles of any age must have full registration. Use for special occasions without financial reward can be allowed by the club registrar.

    Shane - the complaint is not about the VEHICLE being used by the way it is being used in contravention of the agreed rules. If people are found doing this and it is found to be perceived as widespread then the Vic Govt may just blow the whistle and tell all players to get out of the pool. THEN you'll be pissed off.
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    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    As far as I know the rules the donut van is definatly out of line.
    As far as I understand the rules are no commercial activity includes no advertising your business, sign writing is also regarded as commercial gain. I'm not allowed to advertise my business but if the vehicle is an old RACV or Mr Whippy van then that's ok. With my Dacia ute, it has had sign writing ever since we've owned it (over 25 years now) so I could argue that we restored it to how it was back in the 80's but I could not do deliveries in it.
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    Fellow Frogger! julian b's Avatar
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    The doughnut van is an old bus. I don't think it is ever driven anywhere ,but is parked on a public road that runs through the middle of the market and would have to be registered .Unless it is parked within 200 metres of the owners home ,which is very unlikely ,the log book would need to be filled in and signed every day.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian b View Post
    The doughnut van is an old bus. I don't think it is ever driven anywhere ,but is parked on a public road that runs through the middle of the market and would have to be registered .Unless it is parked within 200 metres of the owners home ,which is very unlikely ,the log book would need to be filled in and signed every day.
    Yep, it'll be towed as an uregistered vehicle if it's parked there. Davids understanding is the same as mine. No advertising/sign writing unless it's the period look of the car. Eg: The old bakers vans you see with the advertising for there original baker 80years ago still written on the side.

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    So sponsor's signs on a historic rally car which is currently competing is not allowed then? Watch out HRA!

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfred View Post
    So sponsor's signs on a historic rally car which is currently competing is not allowed then? Watch out HRA!
    Good one .... Technically your probably right However they'll be removed right after the event, so it's hardly a money making venture for someone. The idea is you personally can't use a club permit vehicle for business reasons. If you want to use a car for business use, register it !!
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  19. #19
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    Just waiting for the Rally Permit scheme to be revised re cost and being able to drive to motorsport other than just rallies and the rally cars will be able to change over.
    My club cars are totally original enthusiast cars with no sign writing, 203, 205 and soon 403, as intended by the architects of the scheme, but my rally 205 is on full reg and I'm hoping not to get pulled over and asked why it has a full cage installed.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Good one .... Technically your probably right However they'll be removed right after the event, so it's hardly a money making venture for someone. The idea is you personally can't use a club permit vehicle for business reasons. If you want to use a car for business use, register it !!

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    The very important wording for this is, "Period correct". Mate's brother has a collection of Torana's that are raced in Group C and as they are original Holden Dealer Team cars they come painted in the Red and White livery.....Maybe if they give Mick a very large bag of Gold from Quit he'll paint them Olive Drab.
    Not that it answers the HRA question; Is it period correct signage? Or is it a 'current' commercial arrangement? There are regulations to cover these situations.
    Brendan.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Just waiting for the Rally Permit scheme to be revised re cost and being able to drive to motorsport other than just rallies and the rally cars will be able to change over.
    My club cars are totally original enthusiast cars with no sign writing, 203, 205 and soon 403, as intended by the architects of the scheme, but my rally 205 is on full reg and I'm hoping not to get pulled over and asked why it has a full cage installed.
    Graham
    Try tough ones.... My um... "soon to be" brother inlaw has a 1940 ford. It was "hot rodded" in the 60's which basically means it's lowered with a 60's era chev rather than the old unreliable flathead (it's a gueniune V8 model).

    It's not a street rod, it's not an "original" classic car ............. How does he go getting a club permit. Does he have to get it engineered to go onto a street rod permit ( that would be ludicrous given it's been on the road it it's current guise for 50years). Or can it go onto a club permit (no cos it's not original) .............. BUT ... what is original on a 74 year old car??

    This is why the club permit scheme stays "kinda grey" in a lot of areas. The older a car gets, the less original it will be as the parts suppliers disappear.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  22. #22
    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    This is why the club permit scheme stays "kinda grey" in a lot of areas. The older a car gets, the less original it will be as the parts suppliers disappear.
    seeya,
    Shane L.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Try tough ones.... My um... "soon to be" brother inlaw has a 1940 ford. It was "hot rodded" in the 60's which basically means it's lowered with a 60's era chev rather than the old unreliable flathead (it's a gueniune V8 model).

    It's not a street rod, it's not an "original" classic car ............. How does he go getting a club permit. Does he have to get it engineered to go onto a street rod permit ( that would be ludicrous given it's been on the road it it's current guise for 50years). Or can it go onto a club permit (no cos it's not original) .............. BUT ... what is original on a 74 year old car??

    This is why the club permit scheme stays "kinda grey" in a lot of areas. The older a car gets, the less original it will be as the parts suppliers disappear.

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    We have the same deal with my brother's 4CV. It's a 1954 car with R10 (1968) running gear and an R12 (1975) engine. It's been like that since he built it and 1980 and is registered like that but that was before engineer certificates. I'm the RCCV club plate inspector and do I say to my brother that his car needs a engineers certificate before I can except it on club plates or as it's been registered like that for 40 years let it go. I don't think RCCV can do street rod reg.

    I do know that we can do a replica as in a replica Gordini but this is not.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    We have the same deal with my brother's 4CV. It's a 1954 car with R10 (1968) running gear and an R12 (1975) engine. It's been like that since he built it and 1980 and is registered like that but that was before engineer certificates. I'm the RCCV club plate inspector and do I say to my brother that his car needs a engineers certificate before I can except it on club plates or as it's been registered like that for 40 years let it go. I don't think RCCV can do street rod reg.

    I do know that we can do a replica as in a replica Gordini but this is not.
    Have a look at the list of "inspectors/engineers" on the Vicroads website. There is even several in Ballarat. The engineer only needs to do a "safety check" as apposed to a full engineers certificate. You then check the "street rod" box at the top of the club permit application rather than "classic" and it'd legal and done. At least that's my understanding given the Vicroads documentation.

    It *might* be quite cheap and easy to get approved given if you can find an engineer that understands it's been on the road in that guise for decades.

    seeya,
    Shaen L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  25. #25
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Have a look at the list of "inspectors/engineers" on the Vicroads website. There is even several in Ballarat. The engineer only needs to do a "safety check" as apposed to a full engineers certificate. You then check the "street rod" box at the top of the club permit application rather than "classic" and it'd legal and done. At least that's my understanding given the Vicroads documentation.

    It *might* be quite cheap and easy to get approved given if you can find an engineer that understands it's been on the road in that guise for decades.

    seeya,
    Shaen L.
    I think he can't be bothered anymore, easier to keep it registered, besides he doesn't want to lose his number plate SC 750
    David Cavanagh

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